T42 Thai (NMB), China (Alps) Keyboard Impressons (long)

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princeatul · #91 Post by **princeatul** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:05 pm

I ordered T43 (2686-E7U) a few days back, and after reading this thread
I'm wondering if there's a way to know what kbd I'll get

???

I mailed my cust rep and he *insisted* that there is *only one* kind of kbd!

Am stumped!!! Seeking some enlightenment

donking! · #92 Post by **donking!** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:37 pm

I ordered a T60 a couple weeks ago and later emailed my customer rep to see if I could be sure to get the NMB keyboard. He acknowledged there are different manufactuers of the keyboards. But said there was no way to determine ahead of time which keyboard I'm getting.

It seems like people on these forums, who really care about this, have had luck getting IBM/Lenovo to send then another keyboard if they don't like the one they get. I'm hoping that if I don't get the NMB, then if I really make the point that this is a big reason why I bought a ThinkPad, they'll send me one after the fact.

Chrispy · #93 Post by **Chrispy** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:49 am

I had luck with it tonight. If you are nice about it they seem to be very helpful. I could not have asked for better service.

ryan42 · #94 Post by **ryan42** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:11 am

so I take it the NMB is more preferred over the ALPS and Chicony? I am thinking about calling them and asking for an NMB if that's what most people would suggest.

Aroc · #95 Post by **Aroc** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:27 am

Ryan, please read the first three pages of this thread. You will find more personal acccounts and comparisons of the keyboards. I have personally compared the Chinese Alps with the Thai (or purported) NMB on my 14 inch 2687-E8U T43. The difference is pretty staggering. I can really type faster and with less typegraphical errors on the (purported) Thai NMB. I am so impressed with that product, that I have bought a second off of ebay as a spare.

The keyboard is that good. Let me clarify that statement. While there may be better keyboards out there, this Thai NMB is enough of an improvement over the Alps for me to warrant this. To me it is that good. YMMV.

My $0.02, et al.

Aaron

princeatul · #96 Post by **princeatul** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:23 am

The cust rep replied to my email stating that there is absolutely no way I can ensure
that I get the kbd I want at the time of delivery

So it seems unless I get the system in my hands, I don't what I have

That said, how do you get a replacement kbd without paying for it???
I've ordered it in US, but will be hand-carrying it to India? In that case, whom
will I contact to get the replacement: US cust service or India cust service?

Somebody who have successfully ordered replacement, can you detail on how you managed to get one without being charged!!!

davidspalding · #97 Post by **davidspalding** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:31 pm

Read the whole thread. And don't assume that because some can tell a little difference that you will, too. Try out what you got. You maybe quite happy.

As far as the "free" replacement, this is myth. I tried, and failed, even with a clear complaint that my finger was catching underneath keys. I May try again if my left trackpoint button keeps going non-responsive every few days.

If everyone and his kid sister tries to get a "free keyboard" just for hte helluva it, they may stop even shipping them at all. Don't spoil it for those of us who may really need a replacment for a broken part! Please!

Chrispy · #98 Post by **Chrispy** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:58 pm

It depends on who you get when you call hardware support. The first time I called I was told they could not specify a part. The second time I called they were fine with it. If you are not happy with the quality of the keyboard and something else better is out there then you should get it. We should not have to use a lower grade keyboard just because we had the bad luck of the draw.

princeatul · #99 Post by **princeatul** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:55 pm

davidspalding wrote:Don't spoil it for those of us who may really need a replacment for a broken part! Please!

Well, yes, for a lot of people the difference is just not noticable. But for someone who touch types the tactile feel of the kbd is of supreme importance.

I have a couple of sloppy kbds in office lab, and getting one greatly impairs my ability to touch type (type at speed). The first thing that I do when I get one is swap it someone who don't mind using it. I type with above avg speed, and kdb quality would definitely matter in this case.

Chrispy wrote: We should not have to use a lower grade keyboard just because we had the bad luck of the draw.

Exactly!!!
After build quality, it's TP's kbd that has attracted me. When I'm paying hundreds of $$$ why should I compromise and settle for kbd which just costs few $s!

princeatul · #100 Post by **princeatul** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:57 pm

davidspalding wrote:Don't spoil it for those of us who may really need a replacment for a broken part! Please!

Well, yes, for a lot of people the difference is just not noticable. But for someone who touch types the tactile feel of the kbd is of supreme importance.

I have a couple of sloppy kbds in office lab, and getting one greatly impairs my ability to touch type (type at speed). The first thing that I do when I get one is swap it someone who don't mind using it. I type with above avg speed, and kdb quality would definitely matter in this case.

Chrispy wrote:
We should not have to use a lower grade keyboard just because we had the bad luck of the draw.

After build quality, it's TP's kbd that has attracted me. When I'm paying hundreds of $$$
why should I compromise and settle for kbd which just costs few $s!

#101 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:07 pm

princeatul wrote:After build quality, it's TP's kbd that has attracted me. When I'm paying hundreds of $$$
why should I compromise and settle for kbd which just costs few $s!

Don't. Spend a few extra $s and buy what you "need". I agree with David.

donking! · #102 Post by **donking!** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:26 am

davidspalding wrote:If everyone and his kid sister tries to get a "free keyboard" just for hte helluva it, they may stop even shipping them at all. Don't spoil it for those of us who may really need a replacment for a broken part! Please!

GomJabbar wrote:Spend a few extra $s and buy what you "need". I agree with David.

I sort of agree with David and sort of not. It's hard for me to imagine that Lenovo would stop shipping keyboards to people with genuinely broken keyboards, because a few people call to ask for a different keyboard based on a preference--though it would be unfortunate if Lenovo did. I also have a hard time imagining "everyone and his kid sister" making this request. Even if everyone in this forum did, that wouldn't be many people out of Lenovo's vast customer base.

But what really baffles me is why Lenovo doesn't just ship the NMB keyboard on all their laptops. On this forum and in others there seems to be near universal agreement (how often does that happen here!

) that the NMB keyboard is the good one. ThinkPads are renowned for their keyboards. So why not just give everyone the good one? Why set people up to be disappointed or frustrated? Why even bother with the other keyboards?

It just seems lame to me that I know I want the NMB keyboard. But on my T60 order, if I don't get it, I'm going to have to pay for a different keyboard. I think Lenovo should somehow be able to accomodate that preference. It would certainly service their image of being very customer service oriented.

keleko · #103 Post by **keleko** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:29 am

davidspalding wrote: If everyone and his kid sister tries to get a "free keyboard" just for hte helluva it, they may stop even shipping them at all. Don't spoil it for those of us who may really need a replacment for a broken part! Please!

I don't think so! I believe such inquiries would actually increase the chances of more future ThinkPad models being equipped with the "non-rip-off-keyboard" right from the start.
So, I'd rather more TP owners as well as their siblings call Lenovo about this matter.
Just make sure you exercise extreme dignity for yourself and for the others involved while you make your request for a replacement and all should be well.

Notice... if you run into a rep who doesn't want to replace the keyboard, I'd say it's worth calling again and speaking with someone else... even if it's only to witness a fact about the spoken word in general: nearly everyhing a person tells you over the phone is relative. Chances are good that the next Lenovo rep you come across will tell you a whole 'nother "story". Maybe this one feels that he/she has more leeway in their decisions. Maybe the first one just had a bad day. Maybe the second one had a good one. Who cares!? If you're convinced you need and deserve that keyboard, you'll get it eventually. If you do, take the time to thank them or make them smile... if you don't, make them smile anyway.

davidspalding · #104 Post by **davidspalding** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:05 pm

I appreciate and respect all viewpoints. Please review the thread and note that I was responding to someone who'd just ordered a TP, had not received it, and was already primed and ready to call and demand a "free" replacement. ... Gimme a break.

It ain't "free," folks! If enough people call up and expect a freebie replacement due to other than clearly faulty or broken parts, then the cost will be passed on to us. Eventually, yes, but certainly. And perhaps even a more immediate change in policy. I think I encountered that, after a number of people called the Atlanta call center and got replacements, I got Atlanta and a support team lead denied the change-out, as nothing was "broken/defective." I didn't think it was luck o' the draw, I thought t'was a reasonable interpretation of support policies.

FYI, I DO touch-type, quite quickly. But IMHO that doesn't entitle me to demand a keyboard replacement before I even have my first (unsatisfactory) part in hand.

princeatul · #105 Post by **princeatul** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:58 pm

davidspalding wrote:I appreciate and respect all viewpoints. Please review the thread and note that I was responding to someone who'd just ordered a TP, had not received it, and was already primed and ready to call and demand a "free" replacement. ... Gimme a break.

Please don't jump to conclusions!!!
I don't stay in US and someone has ordered the TP for me. I just wanted to know if my kbd can be changed *before* it's sent out for shipment. And if not that, then at least before it reaches me. With limited time at my hands, I should know my possible options, whether it's free replacement or additional purchase or whether I'm permanently stuck with what I get.

How about if someone is buying a Landcruiser and dealer says there is no way you can change the tyres or seat covers before delivery! For that matter, dealer don't know themselves which tyres/seat covers you are getting. Given the fact there's average, good and best of tyres/seat covers available.

Once he hand carries TP to me (India), there is *no* way I can get the NMB kbd. That kbd is not available in my country. (FRUs entered in 'Key part number and add to your shopping accessories' fails). Even if it did, it would be 3-5 times costlier.

As a side note, tell me one good reason/convince me I (or for that matter any TP owner) doesn't deserve a better kbd, and I'll drop it.

P.S.: I don't intend to start a flames war, neither I intend to offend anyone. But just that I beg to differ: Why should I settle for anything less than *perfect*. And this is not a blind judgement, I have used friend's TP (w NMB) and can't imagine anything different.

davidspalding · #106 Post by **davidspalding** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:44 pm

Whatever.

I think Gom said it best elsewhere,... I'm outta here. Best of luck attaining that "*perfect* laptop."

Aroc · #107 Post by **Aroc** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:45 pm

If one reads the earlier postings by others in this thread one will learn how to obtain the Thai NMB keyboard. It isn't hard. It's just a small amount of social engineering (hint: don't talk to Lenovo using the same way you're writing to us).

else you can buy part number 39T0519 on ebay. If anything I suggest you pick up a part on ebay. If nothing it will work as a spare. If you're like me, it'll save you from ripping out your hair down the road when the inevitable happens to your keyboard and

1.) Lenovo can't seem to explicitly source a Thai NMB as a warranty item, or
2.) let's forbid Lenovo stops making the Thai NMB and you can't get a new one, and have to resort to NOS (New Old Stock). [meaning eBay price wars on old stuff)

Chrispy · #108 Post by **Chrispy** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:36 pm

This is a good point. I have considered ordering one off ebay just in case as well. I plan on using this laptop for a long time and I would hate to get used to the nice NMB keyboard only to have to go back to the APLS one (or perhaps something even worse) down the road. I still say that if IBM/Lenovo has the NMB keyboards still going into some thinkpads then everyone should have a right to have one. Pick one or the other but don't short-change some people with a lesser product for the same money. It is not fair and IBM should be responsible to even the playing field.

Chrispy · #109 Post by **Chrispy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:16 pm

My new keyboard came today. It is part number FRU 39T0519. It still says made in china but the quality is very different. Just by looking at the bottom you can tell it is a better made keyboard. The typing experience on this keyboard is much better than it was on the ALPS one. If you touch type, and you get the APLS keyboard, then I would suggest calling IBM and asking if they would be willing to give you the better one.

princeatul · #110 Post by **princeatul** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:12 pm

WOW! Glad for you!
Spare NMB won't hurt, a nice idea!

Aroc · #111 Post by **Aroc** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:19 am

It sounds like you might be as particular about things as I am (much to my wife's dismay and frustration, but that's another story). So it may to worth the added to cost to acquire a second Thai NMB keyboard, now, to keep as a backup in case Lenovo cannot source equivalent replacements in the future.

Best of luck to you in your keyboard quest!

crashnburn · #112 Post by **crashnburn** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:20 am

Kenn wrote:Doh, sorry to hear that! If the keyboard bothers you, just follow the drill.

Call IBM service at 1-800-426-7378. You should be routed to Atlanta, Georgia.

Tell them "I'm not satisfied with the keyboard. I'd like to exchange it with FRU
08K5044 for the 14" t42."

If you get routed to Gold team, wait, say hello, repeat above statement.

Wait 3-5 days.

Replace keyboard.

Enjoy.

Genius

.

When I called, I explained that the keyboard was "flexing and dropping down" on the right side when I pressed on the arrow keys. I get a bit of creaking when this happens, so I let the rep listen to it over the phone. They are sending out the THAI keyboard, although I did not mention it specifically. I think the Chinese FRU is not available currently.

My suggestion is to call back, and only talk about the problem that you are having. Do not mention that you want a particular country of origin for your part. I think that this will work against you with some of the reps.

Seems like this might help too.

I told them I tried to reseat the keyboard and found not helpful, the keyboard was defective. With that, I got them to send me a new wonderful Thai keyboard. It only took me 3 mins.

That was fast.

goofyGAguy · #113 Post by **goofyGAguy** » Mon May 30, 2011 3:09 am

T42 Thai (NMB), China (Alps) Keyboard Impressons (long)

You got it wrong

Re: Re:

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