T43/T43p Core Duo - WHEN?

[jjfcpa]

Now that Lenovo has announced Core Duo for the Z and R series, isn't it just a matter of time before they add the Core Duo chip to the T series?

What really sucks is if they do this, a lot of people (I almost did) went out and bough a new T60 series and had to replace all their add-ons because they aren't compatible with the T43 series.

This was the #1 reason I didn't buy a T60 series. I'll probably buy a Dell Lattitude (D620 or D820) at the end of this month when they are released for this very reason. The new Lattitude series is backwards compatible with all existing components. Since I used to own a D610 and purchased a docking station, extra AC adapters, and batteries, all of my investment can be re-used in the new models.

One of the things I noticed about the D620 and D820 that really caught my attention was the 220 nits brightness for the LCD's. If you've ever tried to use your Thinkpad (ala T43p 14" - nonflexview) in a car while traveling in daylight, you know how hard it can be to see it. Using it outside is impossible. I think Dell might finally be getting the D620 and D820 where they can compete with the likes of Lenovo - especially when you consider the cosmetic details changed on the T60 vs the T43. If their goal was to make the T series uglier, they succeeded in spades!

Contrast that with the cosmetic changes in the D620 and D820 and I think you'll see that (for once) Dell is moving in the right direction.

Incidentally, the Lattitude line is the only one that can compete with a Thinkpad IMHO.

[dr_st]

There will never be Core Duo chips in T43/p models. Consider yourself lucky, if you will.

[jjfcpa]

There will never be Core Duo chips in T43/p models. Consider yourself lucky, if you will.

I'm afraid I don't under the "consider yourself lucky" part?

I think it would be a shame to NOT add the Core Duo to the T43 series.

[christopher_wolf]

When did Lenovo announce they were putting dual-cores in the Z Series and R Series?

Oh and, IMO, Lattitudes are *far* inferior to Thinkpads (I had about 3 of them from various sources, they all sabotaged themselves at some point, but no where near as bad as my HP ze5170 did). At this point, I think Thinkpads and Powerbooks are the only laptops I would willingly buy.

[wolfman]

Agreed, I'd take my R40 over my work issued Dell Lattitude any day of the week. You can't really compare the quality of the two machines. We've had a laundry list of repairs done to the 3 of them in my group at work...

[Jmmmmm]

There will never be Core Duo chips in T43/p models. Consider yourself lucky, if you will.

I'm afraid I don't under the "consider yourself lucky" part?

I think it would be a shame to NOT add the Core Duo to the T43 series.

I'm a bit confused. You ask if they're going to add core duo to the T-series, then you talk about the T60. The T60 is the dual core T-series model. Yes, they did change some other things about the computer, but those are not what makes it a t60. By definition, the t42 has the pentium M Dothan, the t43 has the pentium M Sonoma, and now the Core duo model is the t60. I think that's like asking when g-d is going to release an XY model of the female.

[dr_st]

There will never be Core Duo chips in T43/p models. Consider yourself lucky, if you will.

I'm afraid I don't under the "consider yourself lucky" part?

I think it would be a shame to NOT add the Core Duo to the T43 series.

And it's also a shame NOT to add Core Duo to T42, X32, R50e, A22p and 600E, right?

The T60 is the next generation of the T-series, in case you haven't been paying attention, and it has Core Duo.

[jjfcpa]

My apologies. I just thought the T6x series was the cheap version of the T43/T43p. I personally have used the T4x series ever since the T40 came out and found it to be a very reliable, easy-to-adapt-to system.

I'm afraid I can't say that for the T6x series; especially after reading some of the small complaints about workmanship. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great system, but from my observations, the T43/43p have some touches that set it apart.

The fact that Lenovo introduced the T6x and made it incompatible with the components for the T4x model tells me that this is NOT an upgraded T4x model. Surely, you can't argue with that?

That's like saying that everyone who invested hundreds of dollars in batteries, ac adapters, optical drive components should just toss them if they want to upgrade to Core Duo. Personally, if that is the case, I take it as a huge insult from Lenovo and will happily take my business elsewhere.

Think about it... that means anyone that buys a T43 and purchases any add-ons for it is basically going to have to toss them if they want Core Duo.

I'm betting the other way... I think Lenovo wanted to grap some T60 sales before converting the T43 over to the Core Duo. The form factors are the same so I don't think the modifications would be that significant.

Sorry guys... I think (hope) you're wrong, or Lenovo may make the switch to Dell's new Lattitudes not only easier, but the wise thing to do.

[det922]

well.. i hope you and your latitudes find a way, the t60 aint that bad, but if you really like your dells as much as your talking about them enjoy but i can hold a timer to when its gunna degenerate and break down

the t60's although they changed the ways about it made the frame better less flex and breakage like what people did with holding them from the palmrest, i still would like to see over time that they fixed the little t43 problems that formed but i am hopeful bout it and no thinkpad is cheap except for the old i series

[christopher_wolf]

Keep in mind that the old i Series wasn't even made by IBM; they were licensed out to Acer who then made them in conjuction with IBM....I think IBM learned its lesson on that one. Namely, if you want something done right (especially a laptop), then do it yourself.

Dell still has to realize that and are quite close to simply putting parts together, many of which are non-standard and break upon being replaced with standard ones, to make a laptop...Heck, even I could do that, no biggie as I have put together Frankenstein laptops before just for fun and could get them to run as good, if not better, than any Dell I have ever had or seen. In this sense, Dell is more of a useless middleman. I couldn't, however, design and build a system like the Thinkpad myself with cheap, off the shelf parts that weren't tested or produced by IBM, the R&D and testing of each part of the design is a crucial part of making any system, especially ones that are going to be exposed to different environments and harsh conditions over and over again, like laptops.

So far, Dell has sent me three "new" power bricks for my M60 and they still all have one problem; they *don't* charge the battery whilst powering the laptop. Even funnier, they are the same model number and have the same ratings, yet they each behave differently. Some of the work on the dock, as they are supposed to, some don't work on the dock and only on the Dell, and some just don't work at all. This is the second time something like that happened to me, and I can predict it probably won't be the only time if Dell is making and sending the power supplies to me; it seems as if I can predict that the next step they will take in trying to "help me" is going to end up in much the same state as all their previous "efforts."

[dr_st]

My apologies. I just thought the T6x series was the cheap version of the T43/T43p.

One advantage of Lenovo is that they use consistent numbering, making it easy to understand what follows what. But if you're used to Dell's numbering, it may confuse you, I dunno.

I personally have used the T4x series ever since the T40 came out and found it to be a very reliable, easy-to-adapt-to system.

I'm afraid I can't say that for the T6x series; especially after reading some of the small complaints about workmanship. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great system, but from my observations, the T43/43p have some touches that set it apart.

I've read this forum and the NBReview forum and haven't heard any serious complaints about the workmanship and build quality of the T60. The Z60 series, in comparison, had much more such complaints. The main complaints are about looks, which I kinda agree with, as it seems more plain and dull than T4x, and some ports that have been removed (LPT, S-Video). But there are also some additions. Bottom line is that as technology progresses, some things get added and other removed. It's not always ideal for a given person at a given point of time, but it's how it is.

The fact that Lenovo introduced the T6x and made it incompatible with the components for the T4x model tells me that this is NOT an upgraded T4x model. Surely, you can't argue with that?

I don't need to argue with that. It's not an "upgraded" T4x model, it's the next generation T-model. There are incompatibilities between past series models as well. T20 batteries cannot be used in T40s, the Ultrabay Plus (T30) and Ultrabay Slim (T4x) are incompatible with each other, and so on. Nothing new here and nothing to make a fuss about.

That's like saying that everyone who invested hundreds of dollars in batteries, ac adapters, optical drive components should just toss them if they want to upgrade to Core Duo.

When you get a new laptop, do you toss the old one away? If not, keep it and the accessories. If so, then by all means toss the accessories with the laptop. If you sell the old laptop, sell it with the accessories. What's the problem?

Personally, if that is the case, I take it as a huge insult from Lenovo and will happily take my business elsewhere.

I bet Lenovo chiefs are now sitting in the corner, crying about how they offended you and how they are about to lose your business.

I'm betting the other way... I think Lenovo wanted to grap some T60 sales before converting the T43 over to the Core Duo. The form factors are the same so I don't think the modifications would be that significant.

Bet the other way, bet the third way, whichever way you bet, you are wrong, because you fail to grasp the concepts behind the progress of laptop technologies.

Sorry guys... I think (hope) you're wrong, or Lenovo may make the switch to Dell's new Lattitudes not only easier, but the wise thing to do.

Sometimes I don't understand the point of your posts. What the hell do you want? You want Lenovo to be scared of your possible move to Latitudes? Even if they read this forum, they wouldn't be. You want the forum members to support you in your (sometimes logical, sometimes downright ridiculous) complaints about current and future Thinkpads? You'll get better replies at a non-Thinkpad forum. You want reassurance about your desire to move to Latitudes? I doubt you're going to get any here. You just want to tell us how Latitudes are great? Go ahead, but again, since all people on this forum are Thinkpad fans, your message is likely to be encountered with more criticism than approval.

[christopher_wolf]

Just chill a tad...

[jjfcpa]

Gentlemen, you miss the point of my post... especial dr_st.

The point I'm trying to make is that MY opinion is that Lenovo is making some changes to their systems to make them more appealing to the masses. I can assure you that I've been using laptops (mostly Thinkpads, but most other brands as well), and I don't like the direction that Lenovo is taking.

On the other hand, I've had 3 or 4 Lattitudes at my office (personally had 2 of them) and they have been as durable and as reliable as any Thinkpad I've had. I've had excellent support and response from Dell that matches what I've gotten from IBM. There are some things I like about the Thinkpads and there are some things I like about the Dells... up to now, that is.

I recently tuned in to a webcast on the new Lattitudes that will be released this week. What I saw was some changes that make them more appealing visually, technologically, and in terms of options available. Such as, the option to enable a sort of "tracking" system that can not be removed so that if it is stolen, Dell will be able to find it for you. I had one stolen in the past so this sounds pretty practical if the price is right.

I also noticed that the LCD's brightness is 220 nits compared to the 150 nits on my 14" T43p. Yes, I'm aware of the trade offs in terms of battery life, but that's not an issue for me.

I remember a few years ago when I spent hours and hours on the phone complaining that I couldn't use my high res LCD because even with the port replicator or dock, you could only get 1280 X 1024 resolution via DVI. That was why I first purchased a Dell and it worked perfectly.

Thinkpads have never been cutting edge, but they have been functional and reliable. Hopefully, that won't change, but when I see what little esthetic appeal the Thinkpads do have be dispensed with (trackpad buttons, red color on some buttons, etc.), then I worry that other components that you can't see are going the same route.

I'm not pro Dell inspite of what it sounds like. I like competition because that drives innovation. Take away the Core Duo and I don't see where the T60 offers a significant bump over the T43 in technological advances, appearance, or reliablility. And for this we have to throw away components that work perfectly well with the T43 or if you keep your T43 - now you have to have BOTH for gods sake!

Some of you may have had bad experiences with Dell and if you have, I wouldn't try to talk you into giving them another chance. But I have nothing but good luck with them. My only complaint has been that I liked the ergonomics of the Thinkpad up to this point. But from what I've see of the new D620 and D820; Dell may be doing a lot more than just adding Core Duo to it. And I don't have to buy a new port replicator, batteries, or AC adapters from my old D610.

Compatibility should ONLY be sacrificed in the name of innovation and improvements. Does the T60 battery last longer, does the ac adapter stay color or is it smaller, is the port replicator more advanced? If it is, I haven't heard about it. So if the form factor didn't change, then why sacrifice compatibility?

I realize that some of you are diehard Thinkpad fans - I'm a diehard laptop fan - I don't care about the brand, just the best bang for the buck.

[dr_st]

The point I'm trying to make is that MY opinion is that Lenovo is making some changes to their systems to make them more appealing to the masses. I can assure you that I've been using laptops (mostly Thinkpads, but most other brands as well), and I don't like the direction that Lenovo is taking.

I'm not sure I like the direction Lenovo is taking as well, in the sense that some of the things that bothered me or were missing on a T4x were not fixed or added with the T60, and some of the visual changes seem a turn for the worse, but it's not going to be solved by adding Core Duo to T4x, which appeared to be the theme of your thread when you created it.

Take away the Core Duo and I don't see where the T60 offers a significant bump over the T43 in technological advances, appearance, or reliablility.

There are a number of small changes, but yes, none of them seem very significant. Still, T60 is the first model of a new generation, and while it may seem suitable to introduce a myriad of changes, I guess they just didn't want to change too much at once. Hopefully, there will be more significant additions in the future.

Compatibility should ONLY be sacrificed in the name of innovation and improvements. Does the T60 battery last longer, does the ac adapter stay color or is it smaller, is the port replicator more advanced? If it is, I haven't heard about it. So if the form factor didn't change, then why sacrifice compatibility?

At some point you have to have a big overhaul. Lenovo chose this to be the point. Most of the T60 accessories are compatible with the Z60 series. So they chose to bring the new lines up to par, instead of maintaining compatibility with older models. Not you, nor I know the many subtle changes between the designs, but I guess they do have reasons to prefer the new one. Maybe it will make it easier to add new features in the future or to maintain it, who knows.

[christopher_wolf]

Dell has never been cutting edge, period; in just about every situation I have seen, they have simply copied what everybody else does. From a market standpoint, that is the safest and most efficient strategy to implement if you have the ability to mass produce them, which Dell certainly has. Go ahead and list all the technology that came out on Thinkpads first in the PC world, you will get a list that is pretty significant. HDAPS which the T41 introduced, the ThinkLight, a self-contained, on-board recovery system, folding keyboards, Tablets since 1992 that were comparable to the Apple Newton, and many others. To this date, I have *never* seen anybody else except for Apple, and random annoncements from other companies, to actually push the boundaries of technology that can be implemented on a laptop feasibly further.

The day Dell actually does something actually innovative like that is the same day a squadron of flying pigs will call into the ATC at JFK and request permission for landing (Simple, they aren't guaranteed of making money that way, but they are with copying and shipping in mass quantities). This is exactly the same reason that Dell has been going nowhere in the server market for quite awhile (add to this their anti-Sun site being hosted on Sun servers and various other blunders). Their recent acquisition of Alienware also shows that they haven't been doing great in the hardcore gaming market either; no doubt they are either going to drop the XPS line or have Alienware come up with something to replace it. The same goes for that tracking method; is it something that couldn't have been done by IT? No Is it a technological break-through? No. As far as I can tell, it is only a database of tracking numbers...No big deal, there are other companies out there that offer similar services, have been around longer, and are probably better organized.

Innovation and Techonolgy don't occur by outsourcing the design, putting together the parts in the end, and simply getting the "fancy" parts to slop together into a system...Which is why it works with other "fancy" parts as well. Somebody makes the parts good enough, Dell only has to buy them and hook them together in a laptop chassis...As I stated before, I can do that myself for even less money than Dell charges; they simply make it *easier* to get a quick-easy-cheap laptop that seems to work with other stuff well; this is *not* to be mistaken for innovation, technology, or (worst mistake of all and unfortuanately the most common) efficiency. Simply dotting the i's and crossing the t's to make something easier for a user to do their job is not efficiency; it only solves half the problem at best. At worst, it is just a surefire way to charge people for "Services", which IBM has found out generates alot more money far more often than trying to compete with a market that can quickly turn around, copy your product, and start dropping the ground from underneath you by flooding production lines with cheap and easy products. The Henry Ford mentality applies to both IBM and Dell, it is just implemented radically differently. Dell has been making money by shipping out systems inexpensively and quickly, but they are now also seeing a rich market in services. IBM has been delievering systems quickly and efficiently as well as providing services, and now they have seen even more opportunity for profit.

In the end, it is a giant balancing act, everything will keep going back and forth in a dynamic equilibrium; yin/yang, etc...Call it what you will, but that is what is, and what is going to continue, to happen now and in the future.

[dr_st]

Nice post, Chris. I believe you left out one of the most important innovations introduced by IBM in laptop technologies - the trackpoint. Far superior to touchpads and trackballs.

[brentpresley]

I'm afraid I don't under the "consider yourself lucky" part?

I think it would be a shame to NOT add the Core Duo to the T43 series.

I'm a bit confused. You ask if they're going to add core duo to the T-series, then you talk about the T60. The T60 is the dual core T-series model. Yes, they did change some other things about the computer, but those are not what makes it a t60. By definition, the t42 has the pentium M Dothan, the t43 has the pentium M Sonoma, and now the Core duo model is the t60. I think that's like asking when g-d is going to release an XY model of the female.

FYI - Dothan referrs to the CPU, and Sonoma referrs to the chipset.

Dothan shipped in BOTH the T42 and the T43. Only difference was T42 were 400MHz FSB Dothans, and T43 were 533MHz FSB Dothans.

[bill bolton]

The point I'm trying to make is that MY opinion is that Lenovo is making some changes to their systems to make them more appealing to the masses.

And the point you are missing is that fair number here think you are mistaken in your views on Levono and Dell.

[Jmmmmm]

FYI - Dothan referrs to the CPU, and Sonoma referrs to the chipset.

Dothan shipped in BOTH the T42 and the T43. Only difference was T42 were 400MHz FSB Dothans, and T43 were 533MHz FSB Dothans.

Really, what does that matter here? I wasn't being specific intentionally, because it isn't the point. The t43 has the sonoma chipset, the t42 doesn't. The point is, when there is a change in hardware, they change the model number. The changing to core duo necessitates a new model number, which is the t60.

jjfcpa, don't confuse the t60 with the z60, which many people view as 'lower' than the t-series.

I don't see why it's so earth-shattering that the t60 uses different peripherals. I think it's pretty cool that there are so many Tx's that can use the same stuff. With most other computers that I've seen, you need new peripherals with each revision of the model. I guess when people get spoiled they begin to feel like they are owed those niceties.

Other guys, you need to calm down a bit. By attacking each other, you make it so no one listens to the rest of the points you made.

[draco2527]

I have to chime in on this one!

We (Company I work for) purchased over $3M worth of Dell equipment in 2005, Dell has been a big part of the company for the last 5 years, at one point it was Compaq and at another point it was IBM....

I agree that ThinkPad’s have never been the "latest" technology with all the bells and whistles...after all they were business oriented and not a "one-for all" configuration.....with that said try to keep everything fair when posting...an M series from Dell is not a business machine, if anyone is going to compare Dell to IBM; then use the Latitude series to do it.... ThinkPad Vs Latitude

Dell laptops "have" been horrible, BUT they have gotten a lot better (again, they are no ThinkPad). The DX10 series has had some huge improvements in the right direction and they did remove features from previous generations (D800 has i1394, the D810 has none), etc. Again business oriented; everyone complains about the T60 not having S-Video; I have more S-Video cables collecting dust at work then I know what to do with them, everything seems to have it, but no one in the corporate environment seems to use it.

A lot of companies do not care about "top quality" if their systems are going to be obsolete in three years, IBM could never sell their top of the line ThinkPad with dock, extra ultrabay battery, monitor, case, extra ac adapter and 3 year NBD onsite warranty for $1,900 (corporate pricing, business machine)!!!! Dell CAN and they DO, that is why they sell like water!

I think that IBM/Lenovo is trying to make their laptops "cheaper"(less $$) so other companies will take them into consideration. This was confirmed (we were talking about the direction Lenovo is taking and why, but I did not bring up the above comment..) by a Corporate sales guy at IBM/Lenovo; Lenovo is trying to lower prices so they can compete with Dell, and so far it seems to be working; he had more orders YTD (from new Corporate customers) then any other previous year that he had been there......

On the same token, I have seen what Dell and HP/Compaq did to IBM; I remember the day when ThinkPad’s were everywhere in the Corporate environment; today that environment is Dell..... Thousands of non-employees walk into the company I work for; 99% of them carry Dells, last year only Price Waterhouse Cooper came in sporting ThinkPad’s (T42's and T43's) this year some of them had HP's. When I asked them what happened to IBM/Lenovo, they mentioned INITIAL cost as one of the decisions to move away from the ThinkPad line to HP.......

Todays global market can care less for "best-in class", if "less-in class" can do everything else that the "best-in class" can do for a lot less....then guess what, "best-in class" just got shoved out the door.......it comes into best value for your money, most bean counters and executives could care less if the ThinkPad looks and feels better, for a LOT more $$$!


For US (you and I), the individual user; it comes down to preference, if you can get the best quality for your $$, the we do it...I just purchased a T42p with 3YR NBD onsite and 3 year TP BUT for LESS then what I paid for the T42p I could have gotten a D810 with the same warranty, extra battery, D-Dock. D monitor stand and a case....The D810 (or any DX10 series) is not a bad machine, the ThinkPad T42p just happens to be better in "initial-quality". Dell has proven to be a lot more reliable at fixing things first time around then Ez-serv (but that is another story)

I think IBM/Lenovo will focus more on the "small-business" market(ThinkPad line); most large Corporations have multi-year contracts signed with vendors, in the case of IBM/Lenovo they ARE lowering their prices and offering(it seems so far) the same outstanding quality as before but close to the pricing of the competition. The small business owner might consider the TCO AND quality before looking at the lower cost solution. If IBM/Lenovo play the cards right, it will move from small business to large corporations; and we shall see more ThinkPad’s then Latitudes in the near future......


And maybe a T4X with a Duo Core……Hey the T4X series IS and will be for years to come a popular line……maybe they will bring the T44 DUO (roll cage, higher NIT screen and all the IBM true colors ,!) Weirder things have happened just never say never! They did bring out the I-series after all…that no one saw coming…. EDIT:or the T61 will be identical to the T4X series.....

[lithium726]

Compatibility should ONLY be sacrificed in the name of innovation and improvements. Does the T60 battery last longer, does the ac adapter stay color or is it smaller, is the port replicator more advanced? If it is, I haven't heard about it. So if the form factor didn't change, then why sacrifice compatibility?

Because the T60 has increased power requirements, which made Lenovo make the move to a 20v power plane, from a 10.8v power plane with the T4x series. By definition, Voltage is easier to push through a circuit than Current, so it makes for a better PWM circuit design. For 90w on a 10.8v power plane, they would have had to push ~8.4a, which makes for a larger, hotter power brick. With 20v, theyre back down to roughly 4a, which is what the T4x uses.

remember guys, the T60 was engineered by IBM, not Lenovo. Lenovo has not been in charge THAT long.

That said, I would LOVE to see the T61 go back to the T4x's astheitic design, but I dont see it happening. Shame, really...

[jjfcpa]

Nice post, Chris. I believe you left out one of the most important innovations introduced by IBM in laptop technologies - the trackpoint. Far superior to touchpads and trackballs.

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. I think it was when they introduced the T43 that they made one very small, but in my opinion, really nice change to the trackpoint, they flattened the head of it and added a texture to the top. Much more comfortable.

However, I was thinking that Toshiba added a trackpoint before IBM did? I know they still have it on some of their business models, but as you said, NO ONE did it better than IBM.

[jjfcpa]

FYI - Dothan referrs to the CPU, and Sonoma referrs to the chipset.

Dothan shipped in BOTH the T42 and the T43. Only difference was T42 were 400MHz FSB Dothans, and T43 were 533MHz FSB Dothans.

Really, what does that matter here? I wasn't being specific intentionally, because it isn't the point. The t43 has the sonoma chipset, the t42 doesn't. The point is, when there is a change in hardware, they change the model number. The changing to core duo necessitates a new model number, which is the t60.

jjfcpa, don't confuse the t60 with the z60, which many people view as 'lower' than the t-series.

I don't see why it's so earth-shattering that the t60 uses different peripherals. I think it's pretty cool that there are so many Tx's that can use the same stuff. With most other computers that I've seen, you need new peripherals with each revision of the model. I guess when people get spoiled they begin to feel like they are owed those niceties.

Other guys, you need to calm down a bit. By attacking each other, you make it so no one listens to the rest of the points you made.

I hope no one will feel that my probing for a lively conversation is any form of a personal attack. It's not!

My point about the compatiblity is that when it only concerns one person, it's not a big deal, but in my particular case, I have six employees that all have T43p laptops with docking stations and extra ac adapters and batteries. We replace our laptops every year or two, but now instead of just buying new laptops, I've got to replace a bunch of peripherals besides. That just added 30% or more to my IT budget.

I guess I can understand if Lenovo wanted to bring the components in line with the Z series, but I think they would have been better off keeping them backward compatible with the T43, T42, T41, and T40's.

[lithium726]

a new power plane requires new batteries and new adaptors. in terms of system design, its for the better.

[BillMorrow]

a couple of random thoughts..

IBM has tracking available for at least 6 months..

ibm developed the trackpoint and introduced it on the thinkpad 700 series..
toshiba got it from ibm..

the corporate customers [censored] about the models changing so often so ibm added the workhorse model and perhiperal accessories that all extended the work life of a thinkpad..

ibm has been highly innovative..
pixie dust hard drives..
color TFT displays way back in the 700C..
CD drives in the 755CD model..
but i guess that and more is not innovative..
only being a leader..

too bad that notebook computers are commoditized now..

enjoy fine quality while you can..

[draco2527]

enjoy fine quality while you can..

The only reason I continue to buy TP..even after the BS that I got from EZ-Serv.........IBM/Lenovo.

Worst case scenario, we all chip in and buy it from Lenovo!

[dr_st]

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. I think it was when they introduced the T43 that they made one very small, but in my opinion, really nice change to the trackpoint, they flattened the head of it and added a texture to the top. Much more comfortable.

Indeed the new soft dome is the most comfortable trackpoint. Too bad they only give you one, the cheap [censored]! I've went to IBM support here and asked for a spare cap for my other laptop (a Compaq Evo with a horrendously uncomfortable cap), and they would only give me the classic one for free. They offered to sell me a pack of six for $10, but I ain't gonna pay $10 for six rubber pieces, of which only 2 are useful to me, now am I?

However, I was thinking that Toshiba added a trackpoint before IBM did?

As far as I know, it was an invention of a guy who was working at IBM at the time the trackpoint was first implemented. It was there on every Thinkpad since the first. Here are some links:
http://www.dansdata.com/clickykeyboards.htm
http://www.thinkpads.com/Genesis%206.htm

I have six employees that all have T43p laptops with docking stations and extra ac adapters and batteries. We replace our laptops every year or two, but now instead of just buying new laptops, I've got to replace a bunch of peripherals besides. That just added 30% or more to my IT budget.

It would have happened sooner or later. You can't maintain compatibility forever. So it happened now. And anyhow, I'd say that if a company can afford to replace laptops every year or two (when they are still perfectly functioning and capable of delivering great performance), can afford to spend 30% more on accessories. Am I that wrong?

I guess I can understand if Lenovo wanted to bring the components in line with the Z series, but I think they would have been better off keeping them backward compatible with the T43, T42, T41, and T40's.

Better for you. And only because of the specific scenario you described. Not all people are upgrading from T4x's. Some may be upgrading from an R-model, or from something as old as T30. All in all, I think it makes more sense to maintain compatibility across parallel models of different series (T60, Z60, the upcoming R60).

[jjfcpa]

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. I think it was when they introduced the T43 that they made one very small, but in my opinion, really nice change to the trackpoint, they flattened the head of it and added a texture to the top. Much more comfortable.

Indeed the new soft dome is the most comfortable trackpoint. Too bad they only give you one, the cheap [censored]! I've went to IBM support here and asked for a spare cap for my other laptop (a Compaq Evo with a horrendously uncomfortable cap), and they would only give me the classic one for free. They offered to sell me a pack of six for $10, but I ain't gonna pay $10 for six rubber pieces, of which only 2 are useful to me, now am I?

However, I was thinking that Toshiba added a trackpoint before IBM did?

As far as I know, it was an invention of a guy who was working at IBM at the time the trackpoint was first implemented. It was there on every Thinkpad since the first. Here are some links:
http://www.dansdata.com/clickykeyboards.htm
http://www.thinkpads.com/Genesis%206.htm

I have six employees that all have T43p laptops with docking stations and extra ac adapters and batteries. We replace our laptops every year or two, but now instead of just buying new laptops, I've got to replace a bunch of peripherals besides. That just added 30% or more to my IT budget.

It would have happened sooner or later. You can't maintain compatibility forever. So it happened now. And anyhow, I'd say that if a company can afford to replace laptops every year or two (when they are still perfectly functioning and capable of delivering great performance), can afford to spend 30% more on accessories. Am I that wrong?

I guess I can understand if Lenovo wanted to bring the components in line with the Z series, but I think they would have been better off keeping them backward compatible with the T43, T42, T41, and T40's.

Better for you. And only because of the specific scenario you described. Not all people are upgrading from T4x's. Some may be upgrading from an R-model, or from something as old as T30. All in all, I think it makes more sense to maintain compatibility across parallel models of different series (T60, Z60, the upcoming R60).

Send me a private message with your email address and I think I can mail you a trackpoint with the textured top. I'm sure I've got some extras from all the laptops we've purchased.

Nice review of the T60 on www.laptoplogic.com In fact, it's not just nice, I'd call it glowing.

Thanks for all the great replies everyone, it's nice to be reassured that I've been buying the best laptop around for the last 10 years or so.

I can't say that I won't still purchase a new Dell Lattitude when they come out this week, but I like to do my own comparisions.

[draco2527]

I can't say that I won't still purchase a new Dell Lattitude when they come out this week, but I like to do my own comparisions.

LOL! I am gettting the Dell D620 on the second week of April, launch date is end of month; the D820 is part of the launch as well (have to create images etc for the new platform). I can't wait to see what the Duo can do....and yes, it is not a TP but IBM/Lenovo is not making any offers....


If anyone want the specs on the D620 or D820 posted for comparison to the T60, let me know ......

Also if anyone living in the Metro Detroit area wants to do a "comparison" and wants to provide their T60 for pics, tests...I would be more then happy to provide the D620........

[mrpaulin]

Likely, unlikely, or impossible -- I'd still love to have a T4x system with Core Duo.

Mr. Dell lover -- please learn to spell "Latitude".