Canadian student Notebook purchase

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Budge · #1 Post by **Budge** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:58 am

Hello,

I am a Canadian, who lives in Canada and will be attending the University of Toronto this September. I would like to purchase a T42 and was leaning towards model # 2379DXU (IBM express program United States only $2399.00) The IBM Canada website only list's a few notebooks in there express program, maybe 20% of the U.S. website. Furthermore even when factoring in the exchange rate the exact same notebook is cheaper to purchase in the U.S. provided I do not pay duty. We have friends that live in Michigan and my parents live in Iowa so I was thinking of ordering one from the United States and picking it up in person, and then bringing it back to Canada to avoid paying the duty.

Because I am a student and no one at the University of Toronto can verify if they have a student discount program with IBM I want to know how and where I can get the best deal on a notebook.

Thanks in advance,
Budge

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:41 pm

Budge - I live in the GTA, and have imported stuff on a number of occasions, including a 60GB Hard Drive from Bill here at ThinkPads.com. A couple of things:

1. First and foremost, you cannot get Warranty service in Canada for a product purchased in United States. I had one of the infamous 60GB hard drive crashes, and I had to send the drive back to Hitachi for replacement. It was not quick. Be very careful here.

2. Importing most hard goods items across the border will attract GST and Brokerage. Brokerage is the worst of the two, and is crudely and grossly overpriced for a do-nothing operation. But them's the breaks, and this has *nothing* to do with US suppliers. I think very highly of Bill, have spoken to him in person, and recommend him to anyone.

3. If you send the Laptop to a US destination outside of Florida, I think Bill can help you with State Sales Tax, but then you have to bring it across the border. If you declare it, you will get dinged for PST and GST (assuming you are coming across in Ontario). If you don't declare and get caught, you are in some hot water. ThinkPads are not *nothing*, and the *I didn't know* excuse doesn't cut it with customs officials. Not like bringing a modest piece of clothing or a cheap diskman across the border. Be very careful here.

Your best bet, if only for warranty, is to purchase your ThinkPad in Canada. I paid $2750 CDN for my T41 last December. I saw US pricing that was sufficiently high that it would have cost me more to import one legally.

Caveat emptor ... JDHurst

atlacatl · #3 Post by **atlacatl** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:38 pm

About the warranty: IBM has a worldwide warranty program. If you buy in the US, the warranty is still valid in Canada. IBM tech support confirmed this item for me...

Logi7 · #4 Post by **Logi7** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:20 pm

IBM warrenty is worldwide

although i havent used it in canada .. yet

#5 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:42 pm

You would want to ensure that you have a worldwide warranty. The cost of warranty (as has been discussed in these forums) changes the price of the machine, so I am just suggesting to check first. JDHurst

JaimitoBond · #6 Post by **JaimitoBond** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:10 pm

jdhurst wrote:Budge - I live in the GTA, and have imported stuff on a number of occasions, including a 60GB Hard Drive from Bill here at ThinkPads.com. A couple of things:

1. First and foremost, you cannot get Warranty service in Canada for a product purchased in United States. I had one of the infamous 60GB hard drive crashes, and I had to send the drive back to Hitachi for replacement. It was not quick. Be very careful here.

2. Importing most hard goods items across the border will attract GST and Brokerage. Brokerage is the worst of the two, and is crudely and grossly overpriced for a do-nothing operation. But them's the breaks, and this has *nothing* to do with US suppliers. I think very highly of Bill, have spoken to him in person, and recommend him to anyone.

3. If you send the Laptop to a US destination outside of Florida, I think Bill can help you with State Sales Tax, but then you have to bring it across the border. If you declare it, you will get dinged for PST and GST (assuming you are coming across in Ontario). If you don't declare and get caught, you are in some hot water. ThinkPads are not *nothing*, and the *I didn't know* excuse doesn't cut it with customs officials. Not like bringing a modest piece of clothing or a cheap diskman across the border. Be very careful here.

Your best bet, if only for warranty, is to purchase your ThinkPad in Canada. I paid $2750 CDN for my T41 last December. I saw US pricing that was sufficiently high that it would have cost me more to import one legally.

Caveat emptor ... JDHurst

Well, I got mine in US, and I can get service from IBM Canada. Just give them the serial number, and they will take care of you.

atlacatl · #7 Post by **atlacatl** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:51 pm

Same here - In terms of the buying it in the US - It's sort of a grey area, since the machine is for your own use - Of course, if you bring the box and all the stuff, of course you'll pay duties.

I have traveled to the US with my laptop(s) in my backpack and the question of ownership or where I got them has never come up...This is just a FYI, not a suggestion to buy it, put it in your laptop bag

boudie · #8 Post by **boudie** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:25 am

I've run into this situation before, and the law is quite
clear on the matter. Even though many people get away
with it regularly.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cm/d20 ... 4-e.html#C

Last time I checked, they still don't have a sense of humour.

atlacatl · #9 Post by **atlacatl** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:23 am

Indeed. And why should they have a sense of humor? They are in charged of keeping the country clear of whatever the "in-thing" is, right now.

You must declare everything you buy outside the country. You even have to declare gifts you've received abroad.

Anyway, aside from being ilegal, you can probably get the machine from Bill, cheaper after the conversion - A strong Canadian dollar may not be all that great for the Canadian economy, but it sure makes for cheaper ThinkPads - And don't worry about the warranty - It is worldwide and Canada is still part of the world - Well, so far, it is

hausman · #10 Post by **hausman** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:06 am

boudie wrote:I've run into this situation before, and the law is quite clear on the matter. Even though many people get away with it regularly.

What's more, if they catch you, not only do you get a hefty fine (on top of the GST/PST) but your name goes into their computer. That makes you eligible for "special treatment" every time you enter Canada for at least the next 5 years. My understanding is that it's not a pleasant experience, and is particularly embarrassing if you're travelling with others (e.g. your boss.)

Last time I checked, they still don't have a sense of humour.

The last time I "checked" was in response to their standard "What do you have to declare?" question. I'd just come back from a long, gruelling trip and was bringing back nothing, so I smiled and said "Only that I'm glad to be back home."

They were not amused

kkapoor · #11 Post by **kkapoor** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:05 pm

Budge wrote:Hello,

I am a Canadian, who lives in Canada and will be attending the University of Toronto this September. ....

Because I am a student and no one at the University of Toronto can verify if they have a student discount program with IBM I want to know how and where I can get the best deal on a notebook.

Thanks in advance,
Budge

Hi,

I just graduated from the University of Toronto. They do have a laptop discount plan with both Dell and IBM. Go to http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca and click on the banner at the bottom of the page. This will take you to website where you can access the Dell premiere website for U of T students as well as to special IBM website. On average you can expect to save between 10-15% on a notebook purchase.

Hope this helps.

atlacatl · #12 Post by **atlacatl** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:27 am

I'm not a UofT student, however, I checked the site...And no T models...Only R bricks

https://emerge.compugen.com/emerge/ordering/Home

JHEM · #13 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:47 am

atlacatl wrote:I'm not a UofT student, however, I checked the site...And no T models...Only R bricks

That listing is from last semester so a phone call to the vendor might be indicated.

Regards,

James

umbonner · #14 Post by **umbonner** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:26 am

jdhurst wrote:
1. First and foremost, you cannot get Warranty service in Canada for a product purchased in United States.

Completely untrue. I brought 5 2373's into Manitoba on June 4 and I kept one for myself - a T42p 2373GUU, which is not available from IBM Canada. I've tested the 24/7 support extensively and I've had the recovery CD's sent to me free of charge. A rep offered me the 1 year and/or on-site service warranty upgrades. I can carry this machine into any authorized repair facility in Canada and get warranty service, just like someone who bought directly from IBM Canada. I also have the option of using EZServ. IBM's Intl. Warranty is just as valid in Canada as it is in the US, or the UK or...

You can check if this warranty applies to a machine you're considering by consulting the ThinkPad Reference

2. Importing most hard goods items across the border will attract GST and Brokerage. Brokerage is the worst of the two, and is crudely and grossly overpriced for a do-nothing operation.

You're right, customs clearance is a do-nothing operation and ANYBODY can do it and nix the brokerage fees. I'm not particularly bright, and I did it.

You can learn it all at the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) site

3. If you send the Laptop to a US destination outside of Florida, I think Bill can help you with State Sales Tax

Unless Florida is an exception I'm unaware of, a vendor selling to an out-of-state buyer does not have to charge state tax. Bill shouldn't need to do anything.
,

but then you have to bring it across the border. If you declare it, you will get dinged for PST and GST (assuming you are coming across in Ontario).

This is correct for personal importation. At least in Manitoba, CBSA won't charge PST on goods imported for commercial purposes - you are trusted to remit PST when the machine is sold or used in your business. To do commercial importation, all you need is a Business Number with an Importer's Account (a 10 minute call) - follow the CBSA link above.

If you don't declare and get caught.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! There are much safer, legal ways to realize your objective. You're just starting University and presumably you want a career. Taking such a risk could mean the difference between the job of your dreams and "would you like fries with that?".

Your best bet, if only for warranty, is to purchase your ThinkPad in Canada.

IBM Canada unflinchingly GOUGES Canadians! To see what I mean, look up the T41p 2373GEU on http://www.ibm.ca ($5,529CAD = $4,093USD) and http://www.ibm.com ($2,635USD). Things that make you go "hmmmmm"...

Lastly, there is NO DUTY on ThinkPads (or any "portable data processing machines" as they are referred to in the Customs Tariff, as long as they originate from a "Most-Favored-Nation", like China). Have your vendor put the Harmonized Tariff code 8471.30.00.00 on the commercial invoice (they'll also need to provide a Shipper's Export Declaration (SED - 1 page), see UPS site), so that the machine is classified correctly. Note that it is the country of origin (usually China for TPads, not the US) that determines tariff treatment. Since China qualifies for General Preferential Tariff treatment (GPT), there is ZERO duty charged by CBSA.

Hope this helps with your decision.

Canadian student Notebook purchase

Canadian student Notebook purchase

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