IBM ThinkPad T42 vs. Apple PowerBook 15"

[mr_mbuna]

I can't decide!!!

Laptops

Manufacturer: Apple
Model: PowerBook M9422LL/A
Processor: PowerPC G4
Megahertz: 1.5 GHz
L2 Cache: 512KB
System Bus: 167MHz
Display: 15.2-inch 1280x854 widescreen
RAM: 512MB DDR SDRAM (333 MHz)
RAM Slots: 2 up to 2GB
Video Card: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 – 128MB
Hard Drive: 80GB Ultra ATA/100 @ 5400 rpm
Optical Drive: Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) (24/8/24/16)
Networking: 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet
Modem: 56k V.92
Wireless: 802.11g 54-megabit Airport Extreme & Bluetooth
Operating System: Mac OS X v10.3 Panther
Battery: 50Wh Lithium-Ion
Battery Life: Up to 4.5 Hours
Accessories: Backlit full-size keyboard
S-video to composite adapter, DVI to VGA adapter
Internal Microphone
Apple iPod (20GB)
Warranty: 3 Years AppleCar e Complete Coverage

Ports: RJ-11, RJ-45, FireWire 800, 2x USB2, PC Card,
DVI-out, S-video-out, Audio-minijack-in, Headphone-minijack-out,
Dimensions: 13.7 x 9.5 x 1.1
Weight: 5.7 pounds

Price: $2,308.00 (Student Developer Price)
$99.00 (Student Developer Membership Fee)
$239.00 (AppleCare Extended Warranty)
-$200.00 (iPod Rebate)
-----------
$2,446.00



Manufacturer: IBM
Model: ThinkPad T42 2378EYU
Processor: Intel Pentium-M 745
Megahertz: 1.8GHz
L2 Cache: 2MB
System Bus: 400MHz
Display: 15.0-inch 1400x1050 SXGA+ FlexView
RAM: 512MB DDR SDRAM (333MHz)
RAM Slots: 2
Video Card: ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 – 64MB
Hard Drive: 60GB Ultra ATA/100 @ 7200 rpm
Optical Drive: Combo II Slim Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) (24/24/24/8)
Networking: Intel Gigabit Ethernet
Modem: 56k V.90
Wireless: 802.11g 54-megabit Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG & Bluetooth
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Battery: High-Capacity 9-cell Lithium-Ion
Battery Life: Up to 7.0 Hours
Accessories: Internal microphone
IBM Active HDD Protection System
ThinkLight keyboard light
Warranty: 4 Year Depot Repair

Ports: RJ-11, RJ-45, 2x USB2, PC Card, Parallel, DB-15 External Monitor, Infrared, S-video-out, Audio-minijack-in, Headphone-minijack-out
Dimensions: 13.0 x 10.6 x 1.3
Weight: 5.8 pounds

Price: $2,710.07
-$497.26 15% Education Discount
-------------
$2,212.81



I'm haven't completely ruled out Dell, Toshiba, and other notebook manufacturers... but I don't want to consider any unknown or boutique brands. I built my own desktop, but for a laptop I want the support of a reliable company. I want around a 15" screen, no more than 7 pounds, a Pentium M 745/1.8GHz or comparable processor, wireless connectivity, and good battery life.

[stgreek]

I believe there is no comparison to these two laptops, as the architecture is different (although in terms of quality they are your best choices). It is as simple as this: If you use Windows or Linux, Thinkpad is your best choice. For MacOS, go for the powerbook. If you want a technical comparison, the Thinkpad should be in front in every aspect apart from graphics processing, which the Apples are optimized for. The IBM should also have far better battery as the 9-cell lasts for many hours. Get the T42 and you'll be happy.

Stavros

[david04]

If I could afford it, I would go for the PowerBook (ideally 17"). And I say this after being a Thinkpad fan for many years. I think IBM is just gradually dropping the build quality of its machines.

For example, I paid a premium for my T21 (compared to a Dell). But I've had more problems than I would have expected:
- the Ultrabay didn't hot-swap when I first got the machine (this required a BIOS upgrade to fix)
- the thermal controls didn't work properly out-of-the-box (fan running all the time, regardless of load). This was also fixed by another BIOS upgrade.
- the corner of the case cracked
- and to cap it all off, some sort of power problem means it's now completely dead.

If you want thin-and-light and high-performance, then I'm inclined to think that Apple is the only way to go now...

David.

[mr_mbuna]

This will not be my only machine either. I'm going to college and I'll be taking my desktop Windows/AMD box with me.

[primedude]

I work with Powerbooks and Thinkpads on a daily basis, and the Apples, sadly, tend to be all hat and no cattle. They're great looking machines and truly among the best constructed of all the laptops, but there are a lot of problems that lie beneath the surface. Mysterious crashes, power outages, heat issues, etc. Perhaps Thinkpads aren't much better, but that's not anything I've noticed. I'm just speaking from my own experience here.

But as a poster above said, get which one will run the operating system that runs the applications you need to run when you're away from desktop. Since you have a Windows machine already, I'd say stick with the Thinkpad. Inter-platform compatibility is far better than it used to be, but not quite perfect either.

Edit: Also note that Applecare is a sad joke, nothing like the IBM level of service. I know it must sound like I'm a real IBM partisan, but I'd almost rather have a Dell than an Apple. Apple has a tendency of taking their customers for granted that really rubs me the wrong way.

[Hangfire]

I just received my Think Pad and could not be happier. No problems with any QC, construction is rock solid, does all my computing needs without a hitch. I'm on the road a lot and this thing is right at home, thin and light weight. Beats anything else I've ever used!

[GreenLight]

Where did you find a ThinkPad with the CD-ROM drive on the left side?

[K. Eng]

I'd go with the ThinkPad. The PowerBook G4 runs hot and has a large footprint.

[atlacatl]

It's all about the software available, in my case...You could argue that the Mac has all the software necessary, however, the desktop battle has been won by M$.

As a developer, I need the compatibility and ability to run all software a client my throw at me...With a Mac, I'd run the risk of not being able to run XYZ piece of software...However, the Mac is a nice machine and probably good enough for email and word processing, I coudn't do away from the Windows stuff (Sad, I know, buy hey...) nor the black of my business machine

[boardmonger]

I don't think you will find an unbiased opinion here, so I don't think it is going to really be a fair vote.

And I second the question, where did you find that pic with the cd drive on the left? It can't be a T4* or at least one that I have ever seen.

[mr_mbuna]

Wow - you computer guys are real sticklers! The IBM picture is from http://www.intercom-pc.ru/images/thinkp ... ad-t40.jpg. Maybe the CD drive is on the left in Russia? Or maybe its just mislabeled. Its not just you guys though - I posted this on a Mac forum or two and they all pointed out that that's a last-generation Titanium PowerBook too! I just got it all wrong!

[tyulish]

I had the same dilemma as you, I couldn’t decide between the 15 inch powerbook or the thinkpad. Now for me price wasn’t an issue because I am a student, and both were in my price range. This is how I decided on my purchase.

First, I need to say that I was an avid Mac user for 4 years during college, and had a slight leaning towards the purchase of a powerbook, but I wound up buying the Thinkpad instead.

Here are my reasons.

The interface is the most important part of any computer. What you use the most in a laptop is the keyboard and screen. That is the bottom line.

Those devices are very important, because you will use those more then anything else.

The keyboard on the T42, is the best keyboard I have EVER typed on in a laptop. I find myself replying to more e-mails then usual because I love typing on the keyboard so much.

Second, The screen on the 15” T42 is amazing. It is far above and beyong the screen on the 15/17 powerbook. I mean light years. I had the 17inch powerbook and the 15thinkpad side by side. In still images AND DVD playback, the thinkpad was better.

Third. The battery on the Thinkpad is also way better. I can get about 4 hours out of it, where as the Powerbook, I could only get 2.5 hours.

But here is the catch. Being a mac user. I love OSX. It is the best OS I have ever used. For me, being a former linux user, but not a programmer, OSX was perfect for me. I have to say hands down that the MAC OS is superior. I could control my computer through my cell phone. When someone called my phone, itunes would stop, and the moment I hung up, it would start again. It was a wonderfull program.

There was another program where I could run screensavers as the background.

I love Macs. The reason I was going to buy a powerbook is because I’m a multimedia person. I do video editing and anything multimedia. Mac is just better at that then windows. Mac also has an enticing GUI.

The powerbook is just as sturdy at the thinkpad, and looks prettier.
So why did I go with the thinkpad?

The thinkpad is a laptop. It has a long battery life with an amazing keyboard and screen.
The Powerbook is a desktop replacement. It has a short battery life with a mediocore keyboard and screen.

For my needs, I’m traveling a lot now, and for a traveler, battery life and interface is so important.

Conclution.

If you can’t see the differences in screens. For example, all monitors and LCD screens look the same to you, and keyboard construction you could care less about, and you don’t plan to travel too much, then go with the powerbook. If you are only going to travel like 6 times a year, I would still go with the powerbook. If you travel once a month, or are going abroad, then think about buying an extra battery with the powerbook.

I really hope this helps.


Added. Apple support and IBM support have been identical to me. Both of them are amazingly good.
If you are computer literate in both mac and windows. You will MAKE whatever system work for you. Try the 30 day money back guarantee, if you aren’t sold on the laptop, then go with the powerbook.

Confession. I’m buying the thinkpad as a hold over until the g5 powerbook comes out and they are on there 3rd revision. That should be about 2 or 3 years.

The rule for apple powerbooks is wait until the third revision.

Sorry this is so long

-tyulish

[Kludgey]

I myself, having both a G4 and a x86 based laptop, also agree it comes
down to what software you wish to run. Let your software requirements
dictate to a large degree what type of laptop you should buy. Heck, that's
why I buy hardware in the first place.

Kludgey.

PS. The pic is a mirror pic of an IBM. The buttons are also reversed too.

[mr_mbuna]

Gah, those [censored] at Apple just told me that I can't combine the Developer pricing and the iPod rebate... that means my total price would be $2,646 instead of $2,446. :thumbdown:

[teknerd122]

I wish that the t42 and t42p series of IBM laptops came with ATI's m11 graphics solution! I'm currently debating the purchase of a new laptop, and it's come down to the t42p(2379ezu) and the 15"Al PowerBook (1.5ghz, ATI m11@128mb). I'm currently leaning towards the PB and recommend the same to you! Although this is probably the final and most stable iteration of the G4 powerbook (they're all being made by Quanta, I believe), the reported lack of battery life and larger overall size of the new 15" is really off-putting!

You with the 2.5 hr battery life - what did u expect from a 17" screen? My Rev.A TiBook (500mhz) gets a good 4 hours of run-time with the screen on low. The battery really started going the distanced after I switched to a 4200rpm drive.

What kind of life can I expect from the 15" UXGA screen and a 7200rpm hard disk? I don't want the extended (and protruding) battery, but I'd be willing to put in the extra drive-bay battery. Also, what kinda weight am I looking at with the extra battery?

[Kenn]

Wow - you computer guys are real sticklers! The IBM picture is from http://www.intercom-pc.ru/images/thinkp ... ad-t40.jpg. Maybe the CD drive is on the left in Russia? Or maybe its just mislabeled. Its not just you guys though - I posted this on a Mac forum or two and they all pointed out that that's a last-generation Titanium PowerBook too! I just got it all wrong!

Actually, the thinkpad picture is IBM's fault - it's flipped (like looking at a transparency from the behind) - notice that the VGA port and enter key are also on the left. IBM probably did that just so it would fit more stylistically on the page (or maybe the art guys use desktops).

[kki000]

i work with macs and pcs as well. I dont think theres any question that the mac is a beautiful piece to look at. 5 ppl at work just bought them, not heeding my advice. Having setup a friends 15in pwr book, i know what a pain in the [censored] these guys can be.

That said, the dothan chip and architecture is a thing of beauty. Its been engineered from the ground up as a mobile part and many ways superior to the prescotts that intel is churning out. The g4 is a generation behind, running a memory greedy os (yes more so than even wxp), and not optimized for portability.

Dont know what else you can expect asking this question on a thinkpads forum, but i can assure you that im no wintel fanboy, i grew up on the apple 2e and macs in college.

All i can say is my t42 is incredible. I paid less than 1800 for it, and I wouldnt trade it for the 4 grand pwr book the editor here just bought for anything. (my cold dead hands.. yadda yadda)

Also dont be too impressed with the radeon 9700 in the mac. Though having 128mb vram would be great, in the mobile world, the 9700 is simply a higher clocked 9600.

K

[T23_Owner]

Forget the powerbook. It is WAY overclocked, at the end of its lifecycle and comes with no warranty. Yeah they say 1 year but you can only call for 3 months about it until they slap you with a $50 per call charge even though its still under warranty.

My G4 Powerbook was plagued with problems. I ended up selling it to buy a desktop mac. Much better. I got a Thinkpad for real programming. The mac is only good for DVD and video. Period. iTunes comes on the pc, so does every other app except iLife.

Get the thinkpad, you will be better off.

[teknerd122]

I love my Apple TiBook and OSX. OSX is the easiest operating system to use and configure, period. I've never had to restart this OS (other than after installing certain programs) and it has never crashed. On the TiBook, battery life is amazing. The Firewire port, after 3+ years of faithful service, has died (killed by an evil external device) but, other than that, it has performed flawlessly. 256mb is more than enough to run OSX (same can be said of XP). Also, Apple's disk formatting/erasing utility is second to none.

I'm currently running 2 desktop PCs with XP pro, and it's not a pretty thing. If I want to maintain a respectable level of perfomance, a reformat/reinstall is required every few months. Since drivers aren't as integrated as they are in OSX, this means fishing out the old CDs that came with the printer, wireless card, video card, motherboard, etc. (of course, there's the option of scouring the 'net for all of this, instead). Perhaps it's my own constant installation/deinstallation of video games and such that necessitates so much TLC for my beloved Micros**t boxes, but it's troublesome.

I normally keep XP and games on a small (20gb) partition so that reformats are fast and as painless as possible. Does this need to be done with the ThinkPad? After singing the praises of OSX and the PB, I have to say that I really want an XP-running t42p. Should I expect reboots and reinstalls on a fairly regular basis? Also, the Powebook is whisper-quiet. How is the t42p? I use my laptop in dead-silence, so this is important to me.

[T23_Owner]

Yeah thats all great if you have an older powerbook but the new ones have the fan on all day. Also, I have never had a crash with my XP Pro on a thinkpad. Had a hard drive fail but that is different. My brand new Powerbook had nothing but problems with the screen fizzling out and it was only 4 months old. Now don't get me wrong I love my mac but I just can't do anything on it. I am a web programmer and I need access databases for small clients. The mac is out. Even my boss loves macs but can't develop on them because of DB connectivity. SQL database don't run on a mac.

Also, and this is the BIGGIE, Outlook. There is no PST support on Entourage and that makes the program useless. So thats why macs arent at my work for programming. Oh they are there for graphics but thats all and they are basically just side machines.

What my mac is great for is a file server. I can use OSX easily to ftp into and store many programs including pc ones. I can also use my mac to remotely use my thinkpad which is cool. But in the end its just cool and not a tool so the thinkpad is my sidearm.

Hey they are both awesome. Mac for play, thinkpad all day.