replacement hard drive--used?

[Dutch]

Hi:

I just had my first experience with a hard drive crash. It was in my T42, which is about 18 months old.

Anyway, it was still under extended warranty, and they sent me a replacement HDD, no questions asked. But I noticed the replacement is marked as a "serviceable used part." My question: Is it common for them to send out used replacement parts like this? I gotta wonder, if my first one only lasted 18 months, how long might this used one last? Is this common practice?

thanks,
Dutch

[brentpresley]

EXTREMELY common. Not just with IBM. All manufacturers do it.

[Dutch]

Thanks, Brent.

Guess I missed that fine print on the extended service contract. It's a shabby world and getting shabbier, I'm afraid.

[christopher_wolf]

Thanks, Brent.

Guess I missed that fine print on the extended service contract. It's a shabby world and getting shabbier, I'm afraid.

Been that way for a long time, my friend. It usually isn't in fine print, though...Almost every company I know of has done that ever since I can remember.

[K. Eng]

I wonder if there's any "used" data still on that drive Might be interesting to get a data recovery program and check it out...

[Dutch]

Thanks, Brent.

Guess I missed that fine print on the extended service contract. It's a shabby world and getting shabbier, I'm afraid.

Been that way for a long time, my friend. It usually isn't in fine print, though...Almost every company I know of has done that ever since I can remember.

You mean computer companies? Maybe I've just been lucky. Frankly, I never buy extended service contracts except with the lappies, and this is the first use I've had to make of it.

I love the way retailers offer to sell you a service contract on every item you buy. Bought a $30 telephone at Circuit City this past weekend, and they offered us an extended warranty, I think it was $12.

[Dutch]

I wonder if there's any "used" data still on that drive Might be interesting to get a data recovery program and check it out...

That would be interesting. I would hope, though, that they'd scrub 'em pretty darn clean though before sending them out to customers. Because, you know, I have to send them my nonfuctioning HDD now, in return for the one they sent me. And while I'm asking questions, is THAT standard procedure too? I suppose they need some proof that my drive actually crapped out, eh?

[Kyocera]

This is why I smashed my return HD with a hammer before I sent it back to IBM. I hit it three times with a hammer on the spindle and completely bent the platter, so it could not possibly be recovered.

K. Eng wrote:
I wonder if there's any "used" data still on that drive Might be interesting to get a data recovery program and check it out...

[lithium726]

This is why I smashed my return HD with a hammer before I sent it back to IBM. I hit it three times with a hammer on the spindle and completely bent the platter, so it could not possibly be recovered.

HAHAHAHAHA, thats classic!

but couldn't they call abusive/intentional damage on that one and refuse the warranty replacement? I mean, a hammer to the spindle a couple times is going to cause some physical damage that definatly would not be there from normal wear and tear...

[Aroc]

Why not used? You sent them a used part. They gave you a used part back. But at least you know it is guaranteed to work! That's how most exchanges work.

[kam_]

By law they have to wipe them a number of times with 0's, 1's and random data. I forget which particular standard they have to conform to.. it's not quite DoD standard, but its good enough unless you dismantle the disk and try to look for magnetic bias in each sector.

Rather than smash the drive up, buy a reasonably powerfull Neodymium magnet for a few pounds/dollars:

http://www.gaussboys.com/

Be [censored] sure u keep it away from ANY magnetic media, CRT's and electronics tho. I got two of these:

http://www.gaussboys.com/product_info.p ... ucts_id=81

and putting one on top of my arm i can comfortably move it by moving another under my arm, yes ARM not hand - thats a good few intches of arm there!.. I tell you tho, u stick two of them together and it takes something special to get them apart!

Check these pictures out:

http://www.gaussboys.com/crazy_pics.php

[Dutch]

Why not used? You sent them a used part. They gave you a used part back. But at least you know it is guaranteed to work! That's how most exchanges work.

Well, actually, they gave me a brand-new part 18 months ago that didn't live up to anyone's lifetime expectations--i.e., it was faulty. And I don't know about "most" exchanges, but if I buy a new sweater at Sears and find its stitching unraveling in the armpit when I get it home, Sears either gives me all my money back or they give me a new sweater--not a used one. Buy a book, get it home and find a chapter missing, you get a new book, not a used one. Just because this kind of thing is common or you've gotten used to it in the tech world doesn't mean it's not a little shabby. But I do agree that shabby service and business practices are common all around, not just in tech.

[Kyocera]

Lithium:

but couldn't they call abusive/intentional damage on that one and refuse the warranty replacement? I mean, a hammer to the spindle a couple times is going to cause some physical damage that definatly would not be there from normal wear and tear...

You are correct and that is the chance I took doing this, but if there are people on this board who will try to get information off a serviceable used replacement HD it was a risk well taken. It's not worth worrying about some factory worker getting any personal information from me, only to see a 60 Minutes episode where rougue workers are stealing personal information from returned laptops or HDs. I saw a program on TV once where a hospital worker took a dying mans credit cards from his personal belongings these people should be in jail for a long extended period.

I honestly don't think I am the only one who has ever done this.

[tfflivemb2]

Does that mean that they claimed abuse/intentional damage? Or did they exchange it without a problem?

[Kyocera]

It was replaced no questions asked. If it had not been replaced NQA I would never have posted this information.

[tfflivemb2]

That's what I though. I was just thrown off by your saying...:

You are correct and that is the chance I took doing this

...in reponse to lithium726's comment about IBM/Lenovo claiming abuse/intentional damage

[pae77]

For future reference, I believe the DFT has a utility on it which will securely erase a hard drive.

[christopher_wolf]

http://tinyurl.com/rk7ee

or, less bulky

http://tinyurl.com/ood2j

Use a DoD-compliant, or higher, scrub beforehand first

Then, go to town with a ball-peen hammer on the HDD.

Bulk erasers have many uses; my personal favorite alternative use of a BE is a Virus Scanner, for disks that seem to appear in my proximal location randomly, as it is far quicker than Norton, or anything else out there...Never had a virus survive a "scan" from one of my BE babies.

Oh, and about the RMA stuff...Many companies do this, not just laptop companies...Apple, Motorola, IBM, etc.

There is actually a good story on El Reg about this, see

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/15 ... bm_laptop/

annnnd

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/26 ... et_laptop/

Interesting...Now I know why IBM is more serious about security than most other laptop comapnies.

[Kyocera]

pae77:

For future reference, I believe the DFT has a utility on it which will securely erase a hard drive.

I know all about DFT, Kill Disk, Hard Drive Scrub, and the DoD levels, by all means I am not recommending hitting your drive if you are able to use these means prior to it crashing. The drive in question crashed, none of the above would have done any good. And I didn't have the time or resources, i.e. forensic software, and would it have worked?, i'll never know.

What I do know is that drive was unrecoverable when I sent it in. So I didn't have to worry. If they would have written me a nastygram saying "this drive was smashed and therefore not covered by the warranty, blah, blah, blah, I would have paid the 180.00 in a heartbeat. Call me paranoid but there really are people who want to get your data, personal information, there is an entire industry doing quite well financially because of that fact.

[christopher_wolf]

pae77:

For future reference, I believe the DFT has a utility on it which will securely erase a hard drive.

I know all about DFT, Kill Disk, Hard Drive Scrub, and the DoD levels, by all means I am not recommending hitting your drive if you are able to use these means prior to it crashing. The drive in question crashed, none of the above would have done any good. And I didn't have the time or resources, i.e. forensic software, and would it have worked?, i'll never know.

What I do know is that drive was unrecoverable when I sent it in. So I didn't have to worry. If they would have written me a nastygram saying "this drive was smashed and therefore not covered by the warranty, blah, blah, blah, I would have paid the 180.00 in a heartbeat. Call me paranoid but there really are people who want to get your data, personal information, there is an entire industry doing quite well financially because of that fact.

No, No, No...I believe you, Kyocera; since, well, I am slightly paranoid along with a dash of OCD.

[pae77]

I totally agree. I have recently become very security conscious regarding the data stored on my laptop, especially after I learned that the various bios level and hard disc passwords are not all that secure.

I basically assume that if my laptop is stolen they will eventually get access to the data. So I am in the process of making sure all sensitive data is fully encrypted, currently using TrueCrypt and the built in encryption of programs like FireFox, Quicken, & Outlook, although I haven't completed my research on how secure the encryption used by those applications (aside from TrueCrypt) actually is.

[christopher_wolf]

I totally agree. I have recently become very security conscious regarding the data stored on my laptop, especially after I learned that the various bios level and hard disc passwords are not all that secure.

I basically assume that if my laptop is stolen they will eventually get access to the data. So I am in the process of making sure all sensitive data is fully encrypted, currently using TrueCrypt and the built in encryption of programs like FireFox, Quicken, & Outlook, although I haven't completed my research on how secure the encryption used by those applications (aside from TrueCrypt) actually is.

The encryption built into programs not specialized for such a task is relatively weak compared to powerful decryption tools...I usually just implement the most powerful passwords and encryption I can. BIOS and HDD passwords are far stronger than anything you may be able to get in stuff like Firefox.

Besides, why add more hassle for that?

When they do get access to the data, TrueCrypt would stand a chance, but not something like Firefox.

[Kyocera]

Carry a hammer.

[christopher_wolf]

Carry a hammer.

^ Recommended techique; also useful as a defensive measure and handy fix-it tool. The bigger the hammer, the better.

Client: "Is it broken?"
Engineer: "Yes"
Client: "What are you going to do?"
Engineer: *WHACK*
Engineer: "I just fixed it; you should get a new unit shortly."