Applying thermal compound void warranty?

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Bgradid · #1 Post by **Bgradid** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:34 pm

I've noticed my T42p has been a little hot at idle speeds (600 mhz, 0.7v as set by CHC). It'll still be 39~41* C at this speed, and, I was wondering if there might be someway I could open it up and apply some artic silver ceramique I have without voiding the warranty. I don't think its a big enough deal to complain to IBM with, but, it would be a nice tweak for battery life (not having the cpu fan on seems to help a lot, as I found outside last night on a cold morning)

Thanks!

gunston · #2 Post by **gunston** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:36 pm

how did you do that?
please clarify?
can take some photos and share with us?

thanks

Bgradid · #3 Post by **Bgradid** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:51 pm

Err, I haven't done anything but undervolt the processor so far (as can be seen in the sticky in this very forum)

I was wondering if it voids your warranty from IBM to open up the thinkpad and apply artic silver ceramique

lithium726 · #4 Post by **lithium726** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:53 pm

Yes, it does.

gunston · #5 Post by **gunston** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:32 pm

how does IBM know that you have ever opened before.
and then void the remaining warrantly?

cmarti · #6 Post by **cmarti** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:34 am

I think that it may not matter because when i upgrade the mobo of my T40 to fire gl t2 and the cpu from 1.5 banias to 2.10 dothan and then my mobo failed they replaced it with exactly the same i have installed fire gl t2 and i use artic silver 5.
( When you perform an operation like the one i did you have to make sure you put everything the same way it was before )
Even the fan was upgraded to M10 long fan, so tell me do you think the technician will notice a small amount of paste in your cpu?

#7 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon May 01, 2006 8:18 am

IBM puts thermal paste between the CPU and the Fan. I have never seen otherwise (thinking of "T" machines I have opened up). Changing the thermal paste from one brand to another is not likely to have a lot of impact on the actual level of thermal transfer and therefore temperature.

Some of the parts (mini-PCI) under the palm rest are customer replaceable items, so if you open up for that purpose, and then carefully remove the Fan, clean, and re-apply thermal compound, a service person will not likely notice.
... JD Hurst

DIGITALgimpus · #8 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Mon May 01, 2006 8:59 am

Using something like Arctic Silver 5 may lower your temp a little. It typically performs better than what most brands would use in the factory.

Apple's MacBook Pro's were recently found to have to much thermal compound (which also negatively effects cooling).

Not sure about the warranty issue.

MobileGuru · #9 Post by **MobileGuru** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:27 am

You could go get yourself several degrees of temp drop by "upgrading" the cooling goo. With regards to warranty coverage, no one is really going to tell what changes you've made in that regard unless you are sloppy with the work itself.

"A little dab'll do ya!".

Regards.

MG.

gunston · #10 Post by **gunston** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:32 am

hi MobileGuru,
please take some snapshots of what have you done. I am curious and desperate to know what tricks you have tried on that to lower few degree down on your thinkpad.
Your work will be appreciated .

#11 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:52 am

I am curious as well. I don't see how a change in brand of thermal paste would lower the temperature several degrees. I run about 38 degrees C most of the time and I can't imagine it running at 35 degrees or less just because of compound. Please keep us informed. Thanks, ... JD Hurst

MobileGuru · #12 Post by **MobileGuru** » Thu May 04, 2006 10:14 am

It can be very surprising .. during the manufacturing process the cooling goo is sometimes inadequately distributed (IMHO) and can cause increased operating temperature. In the most extreme case I have experienced, I had a unit running at 95c under full CPU load with the factory goo. After I cleaned it up and applied a cheap store bought goo (OCZ Silver), that temp dropped to just 50c, and dropped even further with a high quality goo (Wakefield Engineering) to a mere 43c. (Keep in mind these were under full cpu load for at least 5 mins)

Thats 52c of delta which makes a HUGE difference. Now while that was an extreme case, it clearly demonstrates that 8c to 10c is possible with a little bit of careful labour. The thing to keep in mind however is that while we all want these units to run cooler (which IS better) they are running as designed when we get them, so it's not like failing to change the goo will result in premature system failure.

Regards.

MG.

Nolonemo · #13 Post by **Nolonemo** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:06 am

I love that word "goo." It sounds so . . . technical!

#14 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:16 am

You make a good point. But my question was based on comparing a proper application of compound A with a proper application of compound B. I don't expect much difference (but I am willing to be shown incorrect).

I have watched my vendor install the CPU in my T41, and I have done this myself. The compound gets spread carefully and the machine works well.

Perhaps your words contain some unintended advice: Make sure the compound between your fan and CPU is spready thinly, evenly and properly.

Thanks for your post. ... JD Hurst

DIGITALgimpus · #15 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:38 am

You'd be suprised. I had a friend do that with a desktop (not sure what brand) with big effects.

The difference is the factory uses the cheap one with less thermal conductivity.

Not to mention the factory doesn't always apply it well (needs to be very thin, but evenly covered). Apple had this problem recently.

Of course to tell you need to let it "Burn in" by running the CPU at 100% for a few hours.

gunston · #16 Post by **gunston** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:23 pm

jdhurst wrote:I have watched my vendor install the CPU in my T41, and I have done this myself. The compound gets spread carefully and the machine works well.

hi jdhurst, i am just curious how to reinstall the CPU in thinkpad. could you please take some pictures of it?

MobileGuru,
hi please keep us informed of what have you done! please kindly take some snapshots as a proof that shown your tactic of putting "goo".

Thanks

#17 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:59 pm

DIGITALgimpus wrote:You'd be suprised. I had a friend do that with a desktop (not sure what brand) with big effects.

The difference is the factory uses the cheap one with less thermal conductivity.

Not to mention the factory doesn't always apply it well (needs to be very thin, but evenly covered). Apple had this problem recently.

Of course to tell you need to let it "Burn in" by running the CPU at 100% for a few hours.

I think we are getting into apples and oranges. My comments are based on IBM ThinkPads (not even Lenovo at this point) and IBM Desktops. I don't disagree in any way that you can improve temperatures from systems not put properly together. Further, I expect cheap machines to have the problems you mention. That is part of the reason I don't buy them and don't recommend them to clients.

However, in all the comments about this, no one has shown that IBM uses cheap compound, with lower conductivity and improperly spread. The systems I have seen dismantled seem ok, and the later systems I have run, run lukewarm. I think IBM was always wise enough to use parts that will last reasonably well. I have never had a CPU go because of overheating in an IBM machine.
... JD Hurst

#18 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:00 pm

gunston wrote:
hi jdhurst, i am just curious how to reinstall the CPU in thinkpad. could you please take some pictures of it?

Thanks

I just downloaded the hardware manual and used it to take apart the machine. ... JD Hurst

Website · #19 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:05 pm

jdhurst wrote:
gunston wrote:
hi jdhurst, i am just curious how to reinstall the CPU in thinkpad. could you please take some pictures of it?

Thanks
I just downloaded the hardware manual and used it to take apart the machine. ... JD Hurst

Yes, the Hardware Maintenance Manual makes it a piece of cake.

MobileGuru · #20 Post by **MobileGuru** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:26 am

jdhurst wrote:However, in all the comments about this, no one has shown that IBM uses cheap compound, with lower conductivity and improperly spread. The systems I have seen dismantled seem ok, and the later systems I have run, run lukewarm. I think IBM was always wise enough to use parts that will last reasonably well. I have never had a CPU go because of overheating in an IBM machine. ... JD Hurst

Don't get me wrong here. I'm certainly not saying Lenovo uses cheap goo .. but I am saying that sometimes manufacturing can flub things up. Below is a shot of the example I spoke to earlier of a CPU socket with the sink pulled off:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/ ... und007.jpg

If the temperature of the goo droplets isn't just right, they stay clumped versus spreading out, causing poor coverage.

Regards.

MG.

MODERATOR EDIT: Please use links instead of images, per forum rules.

gunston · #21 Post by **gunston** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:31 am

did you force to pull out the socket?

MobileGuru · #22 Post by **MobileGuru** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:38 am

Nope it lifts right off once you get the three screws off the fan assembly.

Regards.

MG.

#23 Post by **jdhurst** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:39 am

MobileGuru wrote: Don't get me wrong here. I'm certainly not saying Lenovo uses cheap goo .. but I am saying that sometimes manufacturing can flub things up. Below is a shot of the example I spoke to earlier of a CPU socket with the sink pulled off:

If the temperature of the goo droplets isn't just right, they stay clumped versus spreading out, causing poor coverage.

Regards.

MG.

Point taken. I haven't seen that myself. When I do it, I do it right and I have no problems. Thank you. ... JD Hurst

gunston · #24 Post by **gunston** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:48 am

i think my cpu is not the major heat contributor.
my current temperature reading using FanUtility:

Fan: 0x01 / Highest: 48deg(44 45 37 47 36 n/a 32 n/a 45 48 48 n/a)

The last two temp readings are PCI and PWR, it seems like my PCI is the major heat contributor over here

Activities:
1.Surfing net
2.Minor MS word typing work
3.Playing music using Winamp

jhonyl · #25 Post by **jhonyl** » Sat May 06, 2006 6:41 am

Bgradid -

A. If the fan energy consumption is your concern, then use the fan utility to shut the fan down, until it gets really hot in there (55C). My bet is that if you do that you will rarely use the fan. And so the energy consumption will be lower, i.e. longer battery life.

B. Your temps are not hot. There was once a poll thread where people wrote their temps and if I remember right, then your temps are on the low side.

Bgradid · #26 Post by **Bgradid** » Sat May 06, 2006 10:07 pm

jhonyl wrote:Bgradid -

A. If the fan energy consumption is your concern, then use the fan utility to shut the fan down, until it gets really hot in there (55C). My bet is that if you do that you will rarely use the fan. And so the energy consumption will be lower, i.e. longer battery life.

B. Your temps are not hot. There was once a poll thread where people wrote their temps and if I remember right, then your temps are on the low side.

Ok thanks, I'm going to hold off doing it for now. I go crazy over doing this kind of stuff to my desktop and my old 560z, but, this laptop is a lot more costly

I might still be tempted to do it when I need to take the keyboard off to install my extra 1gB stick when it arrives though

christopher_wolf · #27 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat May 06, 2006 10:20 pm

*looks at pictures of thermal compound slopped on in thick layers and pictures of the MacBook Pro application of thermal compound*

Whooo--whee, the last time I was serviced with that much thermal paste it cost me $50 bucks and I was sore for a week! I didn't know Apple Care is starting to get into that line of service...well, then again it might make sense.

nirvana0001 · #28 Post by **nirvana0001** » Sun May 07, 2006 1:15 am

back to the question, does it gonna void the warranty?
i overclock my GPU a lot and it always causing my tp blue screen because of the heat.

gunston · #29 Post by **gunston** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:15 am

i think most probably it won't void the warranty, as you only using software to overclock the gpu, unless there is any hardware and identify by IBM service personnel, then only your warranty will be void.

Applying thermal compound void warranty?

Applying thermal compound void warranty?

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