Making recovery cds more than once?

[HoMeZ]

Hey all,

I've searched and read a lot of posts, but didn't seem to find an answer. I remember reading once that if you make the 7 recovery cds and use them then you can make 7 more on the newly recovered machine(since your computer is back to as is from the factory). Has anyone actually done this? Is this true?

[GomJabbar]

I've done it. It works.

[HoMeZ]

Thanks for the answer GomJabbar. How did you exactly reimage the machine? Did you use the cds or did you use the Access IBM button at boot?

[GomJabbar]

I used the CD's. I am not sure if you can burn another set if you restore factory software from the hard drive. I just don't know.

EDITED

[HoMeZ]

Wow that was fast, thanks for the answer GomJabbar.

Do you know if it is true no matter what I do to the harddrive(i.e. delete the hidden partition and install a different OS), as long as I have those 7 cds I can always restore it back to factory default(with the hidden partition put back)? I've read that the answer is yes, but it never hurts to get confirmation.

[GomJabbar]

Well, in my case I did use them on a drive that already had all the IBM software and partitions on it. That is, it was the hard drive that came with my T42 when it was new. I never tried to remove the service partition, or do a clean Windows install.

I am confident these CD's will work on a brand new hard drive, or a hard drive that has been repartitioned. You just probably have to have the hard drive in the main hard drive slot of the appropriate ThinkPad to use the CD's successfully.

[Zeitgeist]

Do you know if it is true no matter what I do to the harddrive(i.e. delete the hidden partition and install a different OS), as long as I have those 7 cds I can always restore it back to factory default(with the hidden partition put back)? I've read that the answer is yes, but it never hurts to get confirmation.

Only if the hdd did not have a partition otherwise the service partition will not be created, i.e. always delete with fdisk (you can burn a CD with fdisk, google for fdisk.iso) all partitions before running the recovery CD/DVD.

You can create another set only if you reset your hdd to the factory state, i.e. press F11/ThinkVantage when booting

[carbon_unit]

I used the CD's. I am not sure if you can burn another set if you restore factory software from the hard drive. I just don't know.

EDITED

YES, you can. I've done it. It is just like the day you took it out of the box.

[GomJabbar]

Only if the hdd did not have a partition otherwise the service partition will not be created, i.e. always delete with fdisk (you can burn a CD with fdisk, google for fdisk.iso) all partitions before running the recovery CD/DVD.

You can create another set only if you reset your hdd to the factory state, i.e. press F11/ThinkVantage when booting

The above was not really true in my case. I did have the service partition (which was in good shape). I restored factory contents using the CD's. The service partition was still there, and it worked.

When I originally received my T42 it had Rescue and Recovery version 2 with Rapid Restore Ultra 4.0. I had upgraded Rescue and Recovery to version 3 after I had my T42 for awhile. When upgrading to Rescue and Recovery version 3, it is written to the service partition. When I restored factory contents with the CD's, I was reverted back to Rescue and Recovery version 2.

The above begs the question. If the CD's copied the restore factory contents files to the service partition in my case, wouldn't they do so in every case?

Note the following:

IBM computers that are announced in the first quarter 2004 and that come with the IBM Rescue and Recovery environment preinstalled will feature this configuration. The Rescue and Recovery environment resides entirely in a type 12 partition, not in the virtual partition as with the previous scenarios. In addition to the Rescue and Recovery environment, the factory recovery and system diagnostics will also reside in the type 12 partition. The Rapid Restore Ultra 4.0 backups, however do not reside in the type 12 partition.

This is above apparently refers to a WinPE partition. Earlier versions had the HPA or PARTIES partition. Note what is said below regarding PARTIES.

Consideration 12
computers that have a hidden protected area (HPA), also referred
to as PARTIES, and have the Rescue and Recovery program installed will not be able to boot into either the PARTIES or Rescue and Recovery workspace after recovering the original factory contents. To enable the PARTIES area again, restore a backup using either the Rescue and Recovery program in the Windows environment or by booting from rescue media and then uninstall the Rescue and Recovery program.

The recovery tools are on a separate area of the hard disk from the operating system and run independently of the operating system. In case of a hard-disk failure or if the recovery tools are accidentally deleted from the hard disk or become damaged, you can order a Product Recovery CD from IBM on an emergency basis and recover the factory contents from the Product Recovery CD. For instructions on restoring the factory contents from the Product Recovery CD, see Using the Product Recovery CD.

Restore factory contents: This recovery method reformats the primary partition of your hard disk (drive C); then, reinstalls your operating system, device drivers, and factory-installed software. The hard disk is restored to the same state as when the computer was originally manufactured. For instructions on restoring the factory contents, see Using the Restore factory contents method.

Notes:
The Restore factory contents method deletes all information stored on the primary partition (drive C). If possible, make backup copies of your data files before using the Restore factory contents method.

You use Product Recovery CDs to restore the contents of the hard disk to its original factory state. Product Recovery CDs are useful if you transfer the computer to another area, sell the computer, recycle the computer, or as a last resort put the computer in an operational state after all other methods of recovery have failed.

When you use the Product Recovery CDs, all data and partitions on your hard disk are deleted. The end result will be a single C: partition containing the original factory contents.

The recovery CD's write the recovery information to the service partition. Upon reboot you are booted into service partition on the hard drive, Windows is then installed and factory contents restored to the C: partition from the recovery partition.

With the following caveat: when starting out with a PARTIES or HPA partition, your experience may be different (but I think not) - I state the following: I think the above quoted information indicates that restoring factory contents from the hard drive will be complete if the service partition has not been changed from it's original state. Restoring factory contents from the CD's will always be complete (of course assuming no problems with the CD's or the hard drive itself). I do believe you need to have the hard drive in the main slot of the ThinkPad you will be using it in, to avoid the following problem.

See last post in this thread.

[Zeitgeist]

Only if the hdd did not have a partition otherwise the service partition will not be created, i.e. always delete with fdisk (you can burn a CD with fdisk, google for fdisk.iso) all partitions before running the recovery CD/DVD.

You can create another set only if you reset your hdd to the factory state, i.e. press F11/ThinkVantage when booting

The above was not really true in my case. I did have the service partition (which was in good shape). I restored factory contents using the CD's. The service partition was still there, and it worked.

Maybe I was not clear: Of course if you still have the service partition you don't need to run the recovery CDs. I meant the case where the hdd had a partition (any kind) then the recovery CDs will create the system partition (C) but not the service partition.

[GomJabbar]

Maybe I was not clear: Of course if you still have the service partition you don't need to run the recovery CDs. I meant the case where the hdd had a partition (any kind) then the recovery CDs will create the system partition (C) but not the service partition.

Since I am speaking theoretically and not from personal experience, maybe my understanding of this is not complete. Yet what I quoted above from Access IBM Help: "When you use the Product Recovery CDs, all data and partitions on your hard disk are deleted. The end result will be a single C: partition containing the original factory contents." would seem to indicate that the CD's would remove any partitions on the hard drive anyway. Also, the CD's copy the restore information to the hard drive before restoring. AFAIK, this restore information is copied to the service partition, not the Windows partition. The actual restore of the Windows partition is really done from the service partition on the hard drive. After all, this is what is done when you restore factory contents by using the Access IBM button to restore from the Rescue and Recovery workspace.

Now I suppose if you created a partition on the hard drive using Linux, OS/2, or some other non-Windows operating system, the CD's may have a problem removing that partition.

EDIT: I should have added; IIRC, when I recently used the Recovery CD's, I began by booting up from the first CD and I entered the Rescue and Recovery workspace. I told it to restore factory contents. After the CD's have copied their information to the hard drive, I was prompted to remove the CD and reboot. I was then booted back up into the Rescue and Recovery workspace from which I told it to restore factory contents again. Another reboot and the Windows files are copied to the C: partition. Reboot again and Windows installs. I don't remember exactly how many times the computer reboots during the whole process, but it is ~5 times I believe.

[HoMeZ]

Wow that was a lot of information to digest.

From the quote of Access IBM help: "When you use the Product Recovery CDs, all data and partitions on your hard disk are deleted. The end result will be a SINGLE C: partition containing the original factory contents."

Doesn't that mean you will only have ONE partition, the C drive, and not have the service partition?

[HoMeZ]

I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions.

[Zeitgeist]

Wow that was a lot of information to digest.

From the quote of Access IBM help: "When you use the Product Recovery CDs, all data and partitions on your hard disk are deleted. The end result will be a SINGLE C: partition containing the original factory contents."

Doesn't that mean you will only have ONE partition, the C drive, and not have the service partition?

Again, and I talk from experience (with an A31P, T23, T43 and X60s): The system partition C AND the service partition will be created when you run the disks on a hdd which had no partitions before.

[GomJabbar]

I will test this. I have a spare hard drive, which is a clone of my main hard drive. I have the Product Recovery Disc set, but it is not at my present location. I am not sure when I can get to my home to pick these up - hopefully within the month. When I have all the pieces, I will disable the Predesktop security in the BIOS. I will put my cloned drive in the main slot of the ThinkPad, then boot up a version of Windows and run fdisk to remove all partitions from the hard drive. Next I will install W2K on the hard drive, as I happen to have a copy I can use. Then I will set the Predesktop security to Normal and use the Product Recovery Discs. Well see what happens.

EDIT: Actually, instead of using my W2K Install CD on the drive, I think this would be a good chance to test the "clean" CD I burned a few months back using the information in the Sticky on the Windows forum. I have already test booted this CD, but I have not tried using it to do an install. I made this CD more as an "proof of concept idea" than having any real plans of using it. I am happy with the software IBM provided on my T42.

[pae77]

Again, and I talk from experience (with an A31P, T23, T43 and X60s): The system partition C AND the service partition will be created when you run the disks on a hdd which had no partitions before.

This makes perfect sense to me since the system recovery disks are supposed to restore the system to the state it was when the machine left the factory.

[HoMeZ]

Well according to what Zeitgeist is saying, if it creates both the C partition AND the service partition on an empty harddrive with no partitions I don't see why it wouldn't create both partitions on a hdd that already has two partitions.

Thanks for offering to do a test GomJabbar, but don't go out of your way if it's too much trouble.

[pae77]

Well according to what Zeitgeist is saying, if it creates both the C partition AND the service partition on an empty harddrive with no partitions I don't see why it wouldn't create both partitions on a hdd that already has two partitions.

I haven't tried it but my guess is that it does exactly that.

[bill bolton]

I don't see why it wouldn't create both partitions on a hdd that already has two partitions.

If it does a "clean" on the partition table to make absolutely certain the disk is in a guaranteed "known" state before re-establishing the ex-factory environment, it would necessarily blow away any existing partitions.

I have no idea if this is the actual behaviour or not, but there certainly is a good technical reason why it might be.

Cheers,

Bill

[GomJabbar]

I will test this. I have a spare hard drive, which is a clone of my main hard drive. I have the Product Recovery Disc set, but it is not at my present location. I am not sure when I can get to my home to pick these up - hopefully within the month. When I have all the pieces, I will disable the Predesktop security in the BIOS. I will put my cloned drive in the main slot of the ThinkPad, then boot up a version of Windows and run fdisk to remove all partitions from the hard drive. Next I will install W2K on the hard drive, as I happen to have a copy I can use. Then I will set the Predesktop security to Normal and use the Product Recovery Discs. Well see what happens.

EDIT: Actually, instead of using my W2K Install CD on the drive, I think this would be a good chance to test the "clean" CD I burned a few months back using the information in the Sticky on the Windows forum. I have already test booted this CD, but I have not tried using it to do an install. I made this CD more as an "proof of concept idea" than having any real plans of using it. I am happy with the software IBM provided on my T42.

OK, I did the above using the Windows XP Pro CD that I created using the steps in the Windows forum. Drum roll please..........

Service partition was recreated, and I was able to boot into it - no problem.

Steps taken again:
1. Install spare hard drive in main hard drive slot.
2. Set security in Predesktop area to Disabled.
3. Boot up from Windows XP Pro Install CD and delete all partitions.
4. Create one partition.
5. Format the one partition NTFS.
6. Install Windows XP Pro.
7. Reboot and set security in the Predesktop area to Normal.
8. Boot up from the Product Recovery Disc set and restore Factory Contents.
9. Two partitions created: The service partition, and the Windows partition. Both partitions are bootable.

[gunston]

is it possible to make a recovery cd just in one DVD instead of 7cds ?

[bill bolton]

is it possible to make a recovery cd just in one DVD instead of 7cds ?

Yes. If you have a DVD burner, the CD creating process will burn the all the data that would have gone onto the CDs to the DVD instead, in a continuous run.

Unless you are prepared to go through some other hoops, you will still need to burn the boot CD separately.

Cheers,

Bill

[gunston]

thanks