T42 15" Flexview Dead Pixels

Message

kamikrazy · #1 Post by **kamikrazy** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:37 am

I just received my T42 yesterday and noticed a dead pixel today. I'm wondering how common these things are on the T42 15" Flexviews. Please only voite if you have a 15" Flexview on a T42. I want to know if it's worth going through the hassel of an exchange over one dead pixel. Thanks

tselling · #2 Post by **tselling** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:54 am

I have a single dead pixel on my 15" UXGA screen. I didnt even notice it at first... have to really look for it. I didn't return it since the pixel is stuck off so rarely visible... and I might have wound up getting one with one or more stuck on pixels which are more noticeable.

Conmee · #3 Post by **Conmee** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:28 am

I had a T42p 2373-CYU 15" SXGA+ with a stuck pixel and it was more noticeable.... than would have been on a UXGA simply because the pixels themselves are bigger on the SXGA+ screen. But add the stuck pixel to the form-factor (my T40p sold me on the smaller/lighter variety after all), and I simply couldn't stick with the 15" model, and now have a T42p 14" (2373-GRU).

It's a tired refrain, but I didn't want to spend $3000 and be one of the few consumers to shoulder the quality burden the LCD manufacturers refuse to shoulder. Sure, it would mean higher prices for everyone, but no-dead pixels production can be achieved. And if the industry doesn't want to reach Six Sigma, so to speak, in their production of LCDs, then there should be discounts given to those folks who accept and purchase what are essentially flawed LCDs with dead/stuck pixels. Say, $100 off for the first dead/stuck pixel, $50 for each additional stuck/dead pixel up to the number of dead/stuck pixels required for exchange/replacement.

People can talk about millions of pixels and only one or two dead, and being happy with their one dead pixel LCD, and not being 'picky' etc, but I don't think purchasing a ThinkPad should be like the lottery, where you "win" when you get a machine without various design/manufacturing defects and annoyances, and you should be satisfied with anything less, especially for the amount of money people pay. In fact, I'd suggest that it's all the people who are 'happy' and 'satisfied' with their defective LCDs/etc who DON'T complain and don't return items or demand exchanges, that allows the bulk of software and hardware manufacturers to continue putting out sub-par products, in hopes that the few defects that do get by QA end up in the hands of folks happy to pay $3000 for the privilege of owning a product that is inferior in some way to the majority of products out there. I guess my personal belief is to be the 'squeaky wheel' in both my role as consumer in the economy and voter in the political process (but that's another rant for another day in another forum)... lol

And this isn't an IBM or ThinkPad problem, it's a technology industry problem. In a capitalist economy, it's your God-given right (lol,

) to complain and get exactly what you pay for. The day that IBM puts on their ThinkPad marketing brochures a statement saying that you are likely to receive a machine with a loose battery, squeaking palmrest, clackety hard drive, loose Multiburner, incessently running fan, and washed out screen with possible dead/stuck pixels, that's the day I'll stop complaining about these issues to IBM, when I pay the money I pay. And I'm not talking about the vague legalese found in some sub-document hidden on the website or in fine print at the bottom of some supplier's spec sheet. But as always, capitalism has always operated under the maxim 'buyer beware'....

Daniel.

kamikrazy · #4 Post by **kamikrazy** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:46 am

If I return a laptop during the 30 day period, would I get all the cost returned to me (including shipping both ways)?

Edit: After reading the manual, I found out that shipping costs will not be returned. Time to call the customer service and request a solution to this dead pixel problem.

ian · #5 Post by **ian** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:04 pm

Sorry guys/gal - no dead pixies for me...

JohnV · #6 Post by **JohnV** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:25 pm

I had one dead pixel so I returned it withing the 30 day period. The second unit I got had no dead pixels:)

John

abnorm · #7 Post by **abnorm** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:07 pm

I just got a T41P 2373XQX (refurbushied) and it has one dead pixel. Is there anything I can do? Does the warranty cover just one dead pixel?

Guest · #8 Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:02 pm

Conmee wrote:
People can talk about millions of pixels and only one or two dead, and being happy with their one dead pixel LCD, and not being 'picky' etc, but I don't think purchasing a ThinkPad should be like the lottery, where you "win" when you get a machine without various design/manufacturing defects and annoyances, and you should be satisfied with anything less, especially for the amount of money people pay. In fact, I'd suggest that it's all the people who are 'happy' and 'satisfied' with their defective LCDs/etc who DON'T complain and don't return items or demand exchanges, that allows the bulk of software and hardware manufacturers to continue putting out sub-par products, in hopes that the few defects that do get by QA end up in the hands of folks happy to pay $3000 for the privilege of owning a product that is inferior in some way to the majority of products out there. I guess my personal belief is to be the 'squeaky wheel' in both my role as consumer in the economy and voter in the political process (but that's another rant for another day in another forum)... lol

And this isn't an IBM or ThinkPad problem, it's a technology industry problem. In a capitalist economy, it's your God-given right (lol, ) to complain and get exactly what you pay for. The day that IBM puts on their ThinkPad marketing brochures a statement saying that you are likely to receive a machine with a loose battery, squeaking palmrest, clackety hard drive, loose Multiburner, incessently running fan, and washed out screen with possible dead/stuck pixels, that's the day I'll stop complaining about these issues to IBM, when I pay the money I pay. And I'm not talking about the vague legalese found in some sub-document hidden on the website or in fine print at the bottom of some supplier's spec sheet. But as always, capitalism has always operated under the maxim 'buyer beware'....

Daniel.

AMEN

Paco · #9 Post by **Paco** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:10 pm

I completely agree with Daniel. The computer industry and we as consumers should not tolerate dead or stuck pixels. This is especially true for ThinkPad users. We constitute that small section of the general population of consumers who have spend top dollar for what we believe to be a high quality product, "The ThinkPad." Moreover, there is absolutely no excuse for IBM to place any computer with dead and/or stuck pixels or any other defects for that matter into the stream of commerce. IBM ThinkPads should be the equivalent of the Rolls Royce of yesteryears!

Paco

edelrc · #10 Post by **edelrc** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:24 pm

I agree with Conmee on the pixel issue.
In the other hand, I am sure that IBM knows that most people concern about pixels will use the 30days return policy, and those who does not care are saveguards to reduce the costs for all of us.
However, there is a third category of buyers that DO notice dead pixels but DO NOT have the time to play with returns. What about a $75 surplus for a guaranteed pixel-free laptop?! I am sure, many of us would take advantage of this service and that will keep everyone happy!

sktn77a · #11 Post by **sktn77a** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:48 pm

Abnorm:

If you got the refurbished thinkpad from IBM you have a 7 day return policy - no questions asked. I'd go ahead and return it if the stuck pixel bothers you (they bother me!).

NecessaryEvil · #12 Post by **NecessaryEvil** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:54 pm

my T42P's 15" UXGA flexview had 0 dead pixels.

(my 14" on my t41P had 0; but my 14" on my T41 has a stuck green and a stuck red)

#13 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:10 pm

What everyone continues to forget is that compared to their corporate sales, individual sales are pocket change to IBM. That is not their target market. Individual sales just happen to benefit from the support structure that is in place for their corporate customers (or rather, their small-to-midsized corporate customers - their larger corporate customers have a different phone number to call, a PIN number and vastly different escalation procedures starting with a dedicated Sr. Sales Specialist).

I'm typing this note on my work machine - a T40 that is a leased system. I don't think I have any pixels that are stuck on or, at least, none that I've noticed, and I haven't bothered to look for pixels that are stuck off. However, unless there was a major cluster of pixels stuck on in the center of the screen, I daresay several stuck pixels would be within the SLA parameters negotiated with the leasing company, and I would be told to just suck it up if I complained.

I work on the application side of the house now, but up until a couple of years ago, I was on the infrastructure side as the product manager for desktop and mobile hardware at a Fortune 500 company, and I know that's what I would have been telling my one-off users that happened to get a machine with a stuck pixel or two (unless, of course, they happened to be in the executive suite).

Now, if I had started rolling out a project of 500-1000 systems and found that a high percentage of them had pixel problems, it would be a different story as one of our other vendors found out to their dismay. They ate 200+ notebooks that were returned, ate the cost of replacing another 200+, and lost the remainder of the sale (about 300 additional units - lost to IBM) when they had a problem with dropping off the network and then lied to me about not having any reports of problems from other customers. I was... Not Happy.

gg3761 · #14 Post by **gg3761** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:54 pm

None. Zip. Zilch.

primedude · #15 Post by **primedude** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:03 am

nonny, good post, very interesting perspective.

#16 Post by **JaneL** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:13 am

Thanks, Primedude. I don't mean to imply that if someone isn't happy with their new baby they should just accept it. As someone said, it's a lot of money for an individual. Making the smaller customer happy is what IBM's 30-day return policy or Bill's hand-chosen-for-a-fee service is for.

But so much of what I was reading in the thread is simply tilting at windmills. IBM is competing against Dell and HP for a share of the corporate market where price is key. It's unrealistic to expect that they will change their strategy and increase their price one iota because their tiny share of the consumer market wants perfection while their target market is pressuring them to get the price down and going to Dell or HP if they don't.

#17 Post by **BillMorrow** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:41 am

my T42p (2373KXU) has a perfect display as far as i can see..
fresh out of the box..

FWIW a stuck on (or dead pixel, for that matter) can "pop" up at most any time..
and even some can disappear..!
saw this happen on a 760CD..

and one thinkpad display had an intermittent stuck pixel..
sometimes it was there, sometimes not..

i don't think ibm has any way of predicting the future behaviour of any TFT display..

to coin a phrase from the 1960's, [censored] happens..
my job is to duck when [censored] happens in my direction and it is your job to do likewise..

edelrc · #18 Post by **edelrc** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:22 am

Nonny, I do not know if you are refering to my comment with your fustration so let me explain:
- My suggestion for increasing ~$75 for a guarantee bad-pixel free laptop would be an add-on feacture, as the IBM Protection Plan is. That would not affect regular prices. (However, I recognize this would cause some marketing headaches...)
- The other point is that, I was not avocating to use the 30days policy to use to return laptops with bad pixels. Use it if you are no enough satisfied with the product. Trust me, when IBM decided on 30days, they had forecast most of the numbers and percentages on what people will use it based on. I don't even think that a 30% of thinkpad.com members (we are way too picky customers) or 1-4% of all thinkpad buyers use the 30days policy to return thinkpads because of bad pixels.

#19 Post by **BillMorrow** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:40 am

edelrc wrote:Nonny, I do not know if you are refering to my comment with your fustration so let me explain:
- My suggestion for increasing ~$75 for a guarantee bad-pixel free laptop would be an add-on feacture, as the IBM Protection Plan is. That would not affect regular prices. (However, I recognize this would cause some marketing headaches...)
- The other point is that, I was not avocating to use the 30days policy to use to return laptops with bad pixels. Use it if you are no enough satisfied with the product. Trust me, when IBM decided on 30days, they had forecast most of the numbers and percentages on what people will use it based on. I don't even think that a 30% of thinkpad.com members (we are way too picky customers) or 1-4% of all thinkpad buyers use the 30days policy to return thinkpads because of bad pixels.

ok, first, i DO offer a $100 cherry pick option..
someone orders a new thinkpad, i get it in and open it up..
check for stuck on and dead pixels..
run a few tests on system board and memory and, if asked, i'll tighten up the battery hook so as to not have any slop..
make a report oif any defects i find and then, if perfect after an hour or a night of running in, will ship to the customer..
if there are defects or stuck/dead pixels i return it or offer it to others who are not so picky about the pixel thing and get another new thinkpad for my customer..

second, i think the 30 day period is required by US Federal law..
not any study by anyone..
thouygh i must say that ibms 30 day starts when the thinkpad is invoiced, not actually delivered to the customer..
so your mileage will vary, depending upon shipment times and so forth..

edelrc · #20 Post by **edelrc** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:35 am

Bill, I know! That is why you are our loved VAR!

I said that IBM should offer the same Value Added option as you do for free-dead-pixel laptop. Unfortunatelly most thinkpad buyers don't know you (I bought 2 thinkpads without knowing ThinPads.com so I spent hundreds more!)
But now that I am thinking to check for bad pixels for IBM would be extremily cheap to do, however the inmense majority of laptop owners do not know they may have dead pixels... Which company wants to be the first acknowliging that they have such a problem.

And yes there are laws for returns (don't know if they specify 30days or even if they are federal) However IBM decision based on studies that I was refering is on the non-restocking fees and hassle-free returns.

#21 Post by **JaneL** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:57 am

>Nonny, I do not know if you are refering to my comment with your frustration
>

edelrc,

No, I wasn't really referring to anyone's particular message in my commentary. Looking back on the thread, there was at least one other message about a discount of some kind and several messages agreeing with the idea.

And I'm not really frustrated (I've really got to stop posting in the wee hours of the the morning! Or at least read it over more than once!). After all, I'm not in the market for a TP for myself right now (sorry, Bill - I still love my T23), and I always have the option of walking away from the forum.

However some here who are new to ThinkPads are also relatively young and have not yet been in a corporate environment because they're still students. Other members who are already part of a seasoned workforce still may, because of their particular career direction, only have experience in dealing with computer companies who do target the consumer market. I simply try to provide a point of view, based on experience of dealing with computer manufacturers from another angle, of why IBM makes the choices they do.

My gosh, I'm wordy these days! Note to self: back to the one word answers - yes, no, read the FAQ!

ian · #22 Post by **ian** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:02 am

Hey guys - somebody has hijacked Nonnys userid - and they're even posting with VERBS...

#23 Post by **JaneL** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:09 am

>Hey guys - somebody has hijacked Nonnys userid - and they're even posting with VERBS...
>

I must still be suffering from the after effects of anesthesia!

Porsche · #24 Post by **Porsche** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:49 am

Being a laptop user for about 13-14 years, I now will not accept a laptop with even a single dead or stuck pixel. I had 4 previous laptops (non-IBM) that were like that, and I tolerated them even if I did not like them at all. The two Thinkpads that I have now do not have a single dead pixel, and I am very happy. I understand that LCD panels cannot be made perfect all the time, but I think it makes sense for IBM for example to select and install only those that are perfect. IBM could even advertise this practice and be the first company with this practice. Some of us I predict may even be willing to pay extra for it. But what is the alternative? I can't see how it will be cheaper to the laptop makers for customers to return their otherwise brand new and working laptops because of a stuck pixel or two. While the LCD panel isn't the most critical component of a laptop, it can become its weakest link.

kamikrazy · #25 Post by **kamikrazy** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:40 pm

I just called customer service about my deal pixel. He told me that if I were to drop this off at the service depot that they wouldn't fix it because it hasn't reached the minimum number of dead pixels yet. He suggested that I order another one and send this back. The problem with that is the $35 shipping fee. Is there any way to get around this? Anyone have any suggestions?

Guest · #26 Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:25 pm

I was also thinking about the pixel comments. If the pixel problem is so small and a company began to say they check the computers for pixels problems imagine how many people would call in when they "think they have a dead pixel" or just a stuck pixel that came and went away.????

Flightvector · #27 Post by **Flightvector** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:13 pm

Heh, I feel a bit out of place in this vote; I had a single dead pixel in the bottom right of my T42 15" Flexview SXGA+ screen (fully dead) for 2 weeks ever since it was new. After the first time I cleaned the screen with a towel, the pixel came to life again! So if you have a dead pixel, massaging it may bring it back to illumination, which is something I have heard suggested in this forum earlier. I guess could only live with at least one dead pixel, given that it is in a corner.

T42 15" Flexview Dead Pixels

How many dead pixels does your T42 15" Flexview have?

T42 15" Flexview Dead Pixels

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