X/T/R fan issues: summary

Message

wdso · #1 Post by **wdso** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:36 pm

Hello,

I'm (still) looking for a new laptop. After sending back zillions of laptops because of poor build quality, fan and display issues I'm not far away from giving up for the next couple of months. Just to give you an idea: I had a Dell Inspiron 500m - shame on me -, an Asus 2400N, hp pavillion zt3000 and a Samsung M30 as well as a IBM T41.

I really liked the IBM T41, superb build quality, display was allright, very light-weight - but: the ever running and furthermore howling fan was unacceptable. It really is a shame and I dont get it why IBM does not try harder to find a solution. What's more, I find it repelling that IBM does not even acknowledge the existence of this problem. I really feel sorry for those who haven't had the chance to return this laptop! (We have a 14-day "Widerrufsrecht" in Germany).

But now to the point: What's the current status of this whole fan issue? I'm aware of this new controller firmare (v. 3.03). When I had a IBM T41 I did install it at once. While it seemed to ease the problem it didn't solve it. The fan was still running rather senselessly (blowing out cool air) and when in high rpm mode the pulsating noise was as audible as before without the update. I mentioned it before, absolutely not acceptable for an IBM Thinkpad!

I read that Thinkpads with a long fan, basically those with a fast 3D Chip such as Radeon 9600, behave differently when it comes to cooling. I also understood that long fans don't have this annoying 5-sec-howling.

To clear things up, could someone here be so nice to summarize what is known at the moment? In particular, I wonder if a T42 with long fan, newest bios and controller firmare is (fan-)bug free. So, T42 long-fan users, under which circumstances is the fan running, and if running, how loud is it? Would you consider the fan issue as solved?

Moreover, when do you think will IBM bring out a new series with a new and bug free cooling system?

Btw, I hope this is the right category. I do know of "ThinkPad News/Comments" but I think that this category is better suited. Admins: feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

dd · #2 Post by dd » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:12 pm

" I wonder if a T42 with long fan, newest bios and controller firmare is (fan-)bug free."

Does that mean that my newly ordered T41p will have this problem?

eriqesque · #3 Post by **eriqesque** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:30 pm

dd wrote:
" I wonder if a T42 with long fan, newest bios and controller firmare is (fan-)bug free."
Does that mean that my newly ordered T41p will have this problem?

If you update to the newest BIOS and Embedded Controller you should be fine.

dd · #4 Post by dd » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:47 pm

Hi Eriqesque

I see you have good spec T40.............is the fan O.K. on yours?

Was it a problem before you updated the BIOS and Embedded Controller?

Thanks

Daniel · #5 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:26 pm

First, the T41P is equipped with the long fan and with the update, won't have the problem.

Wdso, you pretty much summarized what is known in your own post. The short fan is the one with the problem and others have fixed that problem by replacing the short fan with the long fan.

T42s are equipped with the long fan on all models. On my T42P, the fan is off when I first turn on the computer. As it warms up in about 3 minutes, the fan turns on and is very quiet, barely audible over the hum of the hard disk drive. It stays that way until I turn off the machine. However, it does get louder if I do something CPU intensive for over a minute. Also, this is all in adaptive mode. If left in maximum performance mode, the machine will get louder and stay that way. The fan isn't bothersome to me and it is very constant.

eriqesque · #6 Post by **eriqesque** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:39 pm

dd wrote:Hi Eriqesque

I see you have good spec T40.............is the fan O.K. on yours?

Was it a problem before you updated the BIOS and Embedded Controller?

Thanks

I origianlly had the cycling problem, then had the fan swapped out to FRU#13N5347 long fan and it was gone.
But since they updated the BIOS and the New embedded controller to correct the problem I put the old original fan in again, and I couldn't hear the cycling. The fan itself is a little louder than FRU#13N5347 but at least there is no cycling. And it's back to it's orignal parts which is good cause, the replacement doesn't fit quite as good as the original.

wdso · #7 Post by **wdso** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:58 pm

Thanks for your reply. However, I still have some remarks and questions

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly: the updated embedded controller and BIOS didn't fully solve the problem for me (IBM T41 Radeon 7500, short fan). In low-RPM mode I was still able to hear cycling from time to time (say 2 times per minute, though it was sometimes indeed hard to catch), in high-RPM mode, with 99% load, the cycling was clearly audible every 5 seconds.

I read that with the long fan cycling is barely audible, yet still existent. What if you update a long fan equipped Thinkpad T4X? Is the cycling *completly* gone then?

Is there any chance that IBM will release a BIOS/embedded controller which stops the fan from running all the time? AFAIK this clearly is a software error, because after going to standby and immediately powering on again the fan does not run any longer. This cannot be related to the temperature, because it takes longer for all the affected components to cool down. In other words, even if the cycling was gone (which isn't the case with short-fan equipped laptops), IBM's fan control is still unbearably buggy.

As mentioned, I've had quite a few Centrino laptops. Most of them had the fan shut of when in 600Mhz mode. If brands like Asus can make that, why not almighty IBM?

I want a silent Thinkpad without the faintest cycling noise. This is a high quality device. You don't want to say, "well, it's an IBM, thats sort of normal, what would you expect of IBM, they build low-cost Laptops, you have to live with such annoyances". Or would you say "this is my new Ferrari, well, the fifth gear doesn't work, but everything else seems to be fine". IBM is *not* Gericom (afaik only available in Germany and Austria, worse then Dell, yes, thats possible)!

geobel · #8 Post by **geobel** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:11 pm

I read that with the long fan cycling is barely audible, yet still existent. What if you update a long fan equipped Thinkpad T4X? Is the cycling *completly* gone then?

No, 30s cycling is always there but one normally forgets about it. At least with T41p fan 30s cycling is not disturbing at all.

Is there any chance that IBM will release a BIOS/embedded controller which stops the fan from running all the time? AFAIK this clearly is a software error, because after going to standby and immediately powering on again the fan does not run any longer. This cannot be related to the temperature, because it takes longer for all the affected components to cool down. In other words, even if the cycling was gone (which isn't the case with short-fan equipped laptops), IBM's fan control is still unbearably buggy.

I beg to differ on this matter. Consider an example: fan start temp setting: 42 C; fan stop temp setting 37 C. You work with laptop, temp goes above 42, fan starts and keeps temp at say 38, accordingly fan never stops because stop temp setting is 37. You put unit on standby/immediately wake up: temp is still 38 but fan does not start because start temp setting is 42. It starts after a while when temp reaches 42.

In my T40 fan tries to keep temp at around 40 (what a coincidence...) what is not at all bad idea. In general fan management is quite sophisticated: there must be several temp sensors (we can see only CPU temp), plus there are clearly different on/off settings for Ac and battery (to my knowledge they cannot be changed) .

Gosha

wdso · #9 Post by **wdso** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:36 pm

I beg to differ on this matter. Consider an example: fan start temp setting: 42 C; fan stop temp setting 37 C. You work with laptop, temp goes above 42, fan starts and keeps temp at say 38, accordingly fan never stops because stop temp setting is 37. You put unit on standby/immediately wake up: temp is still 38 but fan does not start because start temp setting is 42. It starts after a while when temp reaches 42.

Accepted. I didn't consider this.

No, 30s cycling is always there but one normally forgets about it. At least with T41p fan 30s cycling is not disturbing at all.

A shame. I don't think my next laptop will be a Thinkpad T41/T42 then. I just cannot stand to pay about 2000 Euros for a buggy device. You say it is present, that means you can hear it. Thats enough for me. As a matter of fact, I'd prefer to hear no fan at all in 600 Mhz mode. Thats possible, as many Pentium-M laptops show. A Pentium-M operates within parameters up to 100 degrees! Okay, I don't want *that*, but 55 degrees should be fine, shouldn't it?

wdso · #10 Post by **wdso** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:18 am

does anybody know if IBM is working on yet another embedded controller update to solve the remaining fan control problems (30-sec-howling, permanently running fan).

Qapf · #11 Post by **Qapf** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:36 am

I have a T41P and I can honestly say that I have never experianced anything regarding a houling fan. If I put my ear ON the laptop I can hear the wine of the fan, but honest to god the sound of my cealing fan, which mind you was also sold as "silent" is louder than this laptop. The laptop fan noise I have only heard in one situation, thats when I am gaming on the thing with the video card overclocked, at that point I hear the fan, but I also game with headphones so you can't really hear much of anything.

I would say buy a T42 and get the long fan, which seems to make all the fan noise people happy, or go buy either one of those ultrathins by sony that have no physical space for a fan, or a Toughbook by Panasonic which has no moving parts and everything covered in rubber.

jschunkew · #12 Post by **jschunkew** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:05 am

The Inspiron 8600 is apparently
very quiet (under normal conditions)
and has a sophisticated CPU heat sink
apparatus. I'm leaning toward getting
a T42 with the long fan, but that 15.4"
wide screen and silent operation are
tempting in the 8600. Somebody
please slap me for even considering
a Dell.

wdso · #13 Post by **wdso** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:33 pm

Dell?
*slap*
just don't!

Is the long-fan really *that* quiet? The short fan of the Thinkpad I've tested was clearly audible in a quiet environment. Not really annoying, but kind of bothersome when you know that there is no real need for fan cooling (in 600Mhz/adaptive mode).

Is there a T4* with 14,1 XGA and long-fan available?

geobel · #14 Post by **geobel** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:19 pm

wdso wrote: Is the long-fan really *that* quiet?

Unfortunately, nobody can be told how quiet the long fan is, you should see it for yourself...

Now I am at home and it is 2 AM so I can hear my long fan very well... fortunately not the motor but the airflow.

Gosha

Daniel · #15 Post by **Daniel** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:11 pm

Maybe it's my 7200RPM hard drive but I can't hear the fan over the HDD. I don't know whether the fan is on unless I put my ear next to the outlet or unless I feel for hot air coming out.

wdso · #16 Post by **wdso** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:00 pm

I think I will have another go then. Problem is, I can't find a T4* with long fan (I guess only those laptops with a high-performance GPU) and 14,1 XGA. Available soon? Any ideas?

wdso · #17 Post by **wdso** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:40 pm

Any news concerning the fan issue, e.g. has the bios been updated? (I'm aware of 3.03 which partly fixes the problem.)

spirifer · #18 Post by **spirifer** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:42 am

Hello,
Don't buy the T41 long fan, I tried it and the problem is always present,
but now I have one solution:
-Buy this external fan http://www.thermaltake.com/accessories/ ... n/menu.htm
I have the A1888, (12 € in France VS 20€ T41 long fan), put the mobile fan in the front (at 10 cm) of the exit air of your T41 fan.
-When you start your laptop, you must have your mobile fan that start also.

This mobile fan start at 5V by default, with the "rheobus" (5V of USB-->12V ?) the fan at 12V is very noisy, but at 5V it's correct and the T° of mobilmeter is always under 36° (web, word) and the T41 fan start rarely.

It's crazy method, I want to buy a more silent fan like a Panaflo 80 mm.

Good luck.

(I can make photo of my mobile fan system aircooling power system

)

First Light · #19 Post by **First Light** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:24 am

I have a new T42p (3 weeks old) and the fan and HD noise are not an issue.

X/T/R fan issues: summary

X/T/R fan issues: summary

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