Construction problems w/ T42 14" *PICS* 56k=maybe

[mmreed]

you know, I read the original post and thought that must be my long lost brother! I feel the same way! I just sent my T42 back. I hated it! I was replacing a T30. The T30 was SO much better in quality...it was a durable rugged unit. The t42 was a cheap flimsy piece of junk in term of case construction. They thin gauged the lower chasis...the area around the cdrom bay will crack with any slight pressure....the screen may have well of been plastic becuase the alloy casing was cheap and flimsy. They claim it is lighter and more "mobile" but to me it was an excuse to go cheaper. I loved my T30 and would have paid even more than what my t42 cost to get the same ruggedness! Now with my t42 being sent back, I have to decide what is out there that offers the same durability my T30 has. Should I look at Fujitsu? People often claim they are pretty rugged - they have a S series that has a full alloy case. The Panasonic Toughbook 51 also looks nice. The one saving grace of the T series is that they still use the metal hinges whihc I really like. I fujitsu or panasonic used them I would be sold!

[K. Eng]

yI just sent my T42 back. I hated it! I was replacing a T30. The T30 was SO much better in quality...it was a durable rugged unit. The t42 was a cheap flimsy piece of junk in term of case construction.

The T30 is big and heavy, but it is very solid. I still think the T23 strikes the best balance between sturdiness and weight.

the screen may have well of been plastic becuase the alloy casing was cheap and flimsy.

I don't think the magnesium LCD cover on the T40 is "cheap" or "Flimsy." It's not T23 sturdy, but it's much much better than a Dell 600m or comparable plastic junk.

Should I look at Fujitsu? People often claim they are pretty rugged - they have a S series that has a full alloy case.

I've seen the S series in person. It is smaller than the T4x, but you are fooling yourself if you think the S series' magnesium alloy case is more solid than the T4x. The S series actually feels less sturdy than a T4x, the keyboard is worse, and there's no trackpoint.

If you didn't like the 14" T4x, perhaps you should give the 15" model a spin. Ask around here - people with 15" models seem to have fewer fit & finish problems.

[mmreed]

the one I sent back was a 15" screen unit... I really hated how the lower chasis flexed so much and the area around the cdrom bay seems to beg to be snapped.

Its a shame, I really loved my t30 and would continue with IBM had they not lowered the durability of the units.

I think I will spend a few more $ and get the panasonic toughbook 51.

[atlacatl]

the one I sent back was a 15" screen unit... I really hated how the lower chasis flexed so much and the area around the cdrom bay seems to beg to be snapped.

Its a shame, I really loved my t30 and would continue with IBM had they not lowered the durability of the units.

I think I will spend a few more $ and get the panasonic toughbook 51.

The toughbook laptop looks thicker than the T40p 15" - Perhaps if you really require a "tough" laptop, the "toughbook" already has the name - I still think the T4Xx is a well built machine - However, it may not be tough enough for everyone needs...

Good luck with your purchase...

http://www.panasonic.com/computer/tough ... e_tb51.asp

[paikia]

I got 2 2378FVU and both of the had bad built quality.
Paying for $2k+, I expect a sturdy case. Not some flimsy low quality made case. The 2 T42s had the big gap behind the case like the last pic.
I may agree that the things inside the laptop maybe good quality but paying 2k and getting a low quality built laptop is just not worth it.
U can get better quality/specs with the same price. I went with Acer Travelmate 8000. All the specs you need and about the same price.

[efan]

my 15' T42 is solid except the lid has about 1mm gap when closed.

I would not touch fujitsu. the keyboard area is cheap plactic and flex with slight pressure.

My friend has asus m5n. a 12' and 3.5lb machine with carbon fiber case, the built was very solid and lcd lid shut tight.

[BillMorrow]

Dear Logi7..

don't let those guys get you down..

i delight in a well made "artifact" whether it is a camera, a thinkpad or a car..
reality is that even the most perfect of these items is not perfect..

some of the particularities you point out are normal and some are less than normal but probably within specs..

if you feel these will bother you overmuch, then try for a replacement..

you DO take the chance of a stuck on pixel if you do..

my advice is try to live with it..

or, buy one from me and select the pixel check option and the perfect example option..
not cheap but you will be a much happier customer..
(i hope )

[beeblebrox]

Dear Logi7,

it is good to see someone who also cares about quality.

Actually, the Thinkpad frames are just plastics mold and screwed together by Chines sweatshop workers. Imagine you are standing there at the line and screw 300 Thinkpads a day. Of course, there are differences.

The gaps in question, that you show are NOT normal, but within tolerance.

I would not live with it, considering that I would have paid $2000 for it.

My suggestion is: do it as the BMW dealers do with imported Rolls-Royce in Germany. They completely take the crappy Rolls apart and build it up again with all tolerances within tight spec and all screws tightened.

I did it on a T40 as well, afterwards it was absolutely perfect. No creaking palmrest, no gaps. An absolutely flat display cover. Just perfect.
Get the hardware manual for help.

You should not be bothered with those misfits. It is only some screws.

[koolcaz]

wow and I thought I was the only one with similar problems! Thanks guys for all your input. My T41 is the first laptop I've owned.

The flexing of the case/lid I noticed fairly quickly after I bought it but disregarded as a design element. It was the flexed/warped LCD screen that I only saw today. I was quite worried about it. Even though the screen works perfectly fine, it was a little disturbing seeing the screen separate from the bezel. I actually thought I'd done something to it.

But since quite a few of you seem to have noticed the same problem I guess I'll not worry so much about it. The lid still seems very sturdy. I'm not sure when the gap appeared though. If it is a sticking-tape issue....I guess there's no way to manually stick it back yourself?


I also had a loose-right-side-keyboard problem but fixed it by sticking something thin underneath the keyboard.

Great pictures by the way!

[Rhino]

Great post with details pics! Nice! </trolling>

[schmaud]

Hi,

I was also not pleasantly surprised with my T42 upgrade from an i-series in terms of build quality. ( look for a "why not to buy a t42" thread)

the sceen housing flexes at the back, other wise the screen is ok, your is somhow not assembles in tehw ay it should.
I don ot have a loose palmrest, but a lot of flex and some noise...

If you do not want to send the system back,
You might want to check the hardware maintenace manuals ( somewhere here in faq is explained where to download them), and adjust the screen yourself.... but look out for the warrenty.

cheers

ralf

[cj3209]

Here is an alternative to the Thinkpad T-series. This company took an ASUS design and added improvements based on the ThinkPad design. While it looks to have a strong exterior:

- Magnesium & Carbon Fiber Alloy Encasing
- Solid metal chassis
- High-Xchange copper molding heat sink with heat pipes and Arctic Silver 5
- Custom desgined Graphite Thermal Foils for enhanced heat dissipation

Ultimately, I still went with a T43p (work) as ThinkPads are PROVEN and this design is not - I haven't seen any testimonials on this notebook.

http://www.laptopsinc.com/docs/MX_brochure.pdf

http://laptopsinc.com/Merchant2/merchan ... _Code=P1MX

[padpad]

Mine has the Pic #1, Pic #5 problem

[schmaud]

Talking about alternatives:

asus is selling their stuff under their own brand in europe,
for teh t-series i can not commend, but i saw the m5600 series, which is x-series competitor:
nice concept, but keyboard is wired, short (1-2h) batterie life, fan more or less always ( better in teh s5600 with external drive), rather dark screen. Quality better than most but it had a cheap feel.

Wht is a mor series competition for the tseries is samsungs x10:
metall housing, 1.8 kg (some 0.2 lighter than t42),
sorry to say mor solid than my t42

what was the decission for me: no track point

[dokein]

I recently had my palmrest replaced because it was popping up like this, the replacement sits perfectly flush and does not creak at all.

[koolcaz]

The manuals describe how to fix problem 4? (the flexed/gap between the screen and case)

[STS06]

I will check my new T42 as soon as I get home and will post the results of the "test". I haven't noticed anything but I also didn't focus on such issues closely. So if there is a problem, its not apparent enough for me to notice it during regular use. I'll check it and post probably in 10 or so hours (after work).

[laz]

A friend of mine had the same problem with the backlight showing through the edge of the screen on his 15" T42. He called IBM support and they sent him a 2 day mail package to get it fixed under warranty.

[vliou]

About pic 3, mine used to sit flush, until I had it in for service, then it went up like yours, heck, I couldn't even push it down for it to sit flush!

I was very annoyed, so I took off the palmrest, I noticed they had added this other small device to prop it up (it's steel, i'm guessing to support it), so i took it off, and put the palm rest back on, now it's flush flat. Maybe you want to investigate this?

[STS06]

Wow, quite depressing hearing thse rants from people (which are perfectly acceptable...a good amount of people's money was spent for these laptops). Its just that IBM is known to be the best and even though I am in on way a long-time fan of them, its the reason why I bought my first laptop from them. Just sad so see that their quality isn't as revered as it once was. I haven't heard any large rants like these about Dells or other models but no clue.

Anyways, I haven't checked my T42 to that detail yet and kind of nervous to do so now! But it should be done. The reason I didn't notice it before was probably b/c I've left the laptop sitting on the boxes it came with (no table for now) and used it in that manner....haven't carried it around or anything. So hopefully these rants are just flukes!!!!!

[cj3209]

I used Dell Inspirons and Latitudes for the past five years and used to frequent the forums quite often.

Let me tell you, Dell has about 4x as many issues as ThinkPads: non-working SPDF ports, static, hum, overheating, etc etc...you name it. I used to be a staunch supporter of DELL until they kept releasing very poorly made products. I consider DELL to be a CONSUMER-GRADE computer assembler company. I would NEVER buy a DELL for my business.

Just my two cents...

[STS06]

Well good to hear that..thats quite reassuring....i'm evil, i know!

But seriously, I have some friends with Dells and I do hear complaints. I guess since we only hear about TPs here...the rants seem to build up and provide a more neagtive image. But its good to know that even with these, IBM is still better....i was very very close to getting a Dell. I like their desktops for those who don't like to build em, and I've ordered quite a few desktops so naturally I went to dell for a laptop. After a few problems with configuring a computer, I started looking at Toshiba and HP. ....then I talked a friend who showed me his T42....didnt look back!

[vliou]

Mind you, these problems are small. IBM is not perfect, as well all know. Yet, we are a community who mainly use IBM products, and I can venture to say with quite a great deal of certainty that we like our IBM's. I DO.

I know it's not perfect, but i've been through many laptops in the past (Acer, ASUS), and I'm a bit fan of always having the best technology. I learned from experience that there is no such thing as having a perfect laptop, but IBM was always the closest.

[STS06]

Ok well I checked with my T42 and it falls victim to number 1 and number 5 (or whichever number corresponded to the back of the laptop flexing). Honestly, I think that the flexing of the back of the laptop may be necessary to distribute the load..something too stiff may crack easier. Remember, under the lid is an LCD.

Now having said that the flex i see on teh left hand side is something I don't like and I don't think has anything to do with protecting the computer. If you place your finger under the lip of the hood when the laptop is closed, and tug up a little, you'll see that its not solidly shut and hard lift and press the hood's lip, you'll hear it hidding the base of the comptuer. There's too much slack in my opinion and carrying it around in your hand, I can see this as an annoyance.

I dont have the LCD problem, as far as I can see. The flexing of the back of the computer might be there to protect the computer during a fall or impact (dissapate the energy as displacement instead of cracking or the likes of it). BUT, the flex in the hood seems like a flaw more than anything.


I'm not dissapointed b/c IBM didn't meet the God type status of a computer. Overall, its still very rugid, strong, and capable...more so than any other computer of the same size and weight that I have come across.


EDIT: Actually the left side is reallly bugging me now. If you just press down on it...it taps the bottom of the laptop (keyboard area surface)....which is annoying. If feels unsecured and lose...which is bad on such a device. [censored] IBM...if they had just put another latch on the left side, it would have solved this problem. I'm assuming everyone has this problem b/c is seems more like a design flaw than a manufacturing/assembly mistake? Please let us know if you do so we dont waste time sending an otherwise good machine back or worse, get stuck with a bad one!!!! Thank you!

[koolcaz]

Well the flexing of the lid (side and back) does make if perhaps feel not as sturdy, it might be (as some of you have mentioned) necessary so that the lid, which is quite thin, does not break easily. The flex is there to give it some "movement" like they have in earth-quake secure buildings. Better to have something that gives with a bit of pressure than have it stiff but easily broken.

It doesn't worry me too much.

The gap between the LCD screen however does.

For anyone with the gap...............have you noticed that your keyboard is slightly raised above the case level? Mine appears to be. I wonder if that is the problem.

[Trip]

Hey, some addressed almost all of the questions that I had about my new T42! Bravo, and excellent pictures. My palmrest is in better shape, fortunately.

Does anyone else have a problem with some major flexing on the right side of the laptop, around the optical drive? Or, for that matter, does anyone else hae giant gaps around the drive? That particularly bothers me (although the drive itself is super cool).

The fit and finish of this laptop is just very disappointing, and not at all what I had expected, given the general reputation of ThinkPads.

[STS06]

koolcaz...thanks for confirming that.

The left side is really a pain..i mean when you carry it, its almost lose to the point where it would wobble. Again, adding a latch to the left side would have probably solved this (but two latches is probably also a pain to open).

I dont have the same config as the OP (original poster)....i dont seem to have any joints on the palmrest ...only the keyboard and the surrouding is one solid piece of plastic (or whatever) and so there's no flexing on either side.

Again, for me, its just the lid...when closed, its not snug or secured on the left side and you can push lightly on it and it'll tap the base of the computer...which if you were holding it woudl get annoying. I'm with koolcaz..nothing but this bugs me.

To check it...press down on the bottom right cornor of your laptop- on the lid when its closed. Result=- its solid and doesn move. Now do the same to the bottom left corner (when your laptop is closed) and push on the lid...

Any fixes? Again, I think its a design flaw rather than a manufacturing flaw. BUT, if a few people don't have this problem (which i doubt), then that'll raise quite a bit of interest...i'd be wrong...it would then be a manufacturing/assembling problem most likely. Anyways please let us know. Good day all.

[Trip]

It's a shame that they couldn't have continued the lip around the entire screen. That would have solved lid closing problems, would probably provide better protection for the screen while the laptop is closed, and probably would have reduced or eliminated flexing on the left side of the screen. Really would have been a great solution. I guess there was just no way for them to accomodate the ports on the left side of the laptop, though.

[tom2517]

koolcaz...thanks for confirming that.

The left side is really a pain..i mean when you carry it, its almost lose to the point where it would wobble. Again, adding a latch to the left side would have probably solved this (but two latches is probably also a pain to open).

I dont have the same config as the OP (original poster)....i dont seem to have any joints on the palmrest ...only the keyboard and the surrouding is one solid piece of plastic (or whatever) and so there's no flexing on either side.

Again, for me, its just the lid...when closed, its not snug or secured on the left side and you can push lightly on it and it'll tap the base of the computer...which if you were holding it woudl get annoying. I'm with koolcaz..nothing but this bugs me.

To check it...press down on the bottom right cornor of your laptop- on the lid when its closed. Result=- its solid and doesn move. Now do the same to the bottom left corner (when your laptop is closed) and push on the lid...

Any fixes? Again, I think its a design flaw rather than a manufacturing flaw. BUT, if a few people don't have this problem (which i doubt), then that'll raise quite a bit of interest...i'd be wrong...it would then be a manufacturing/assembling problem most likely. Anyways please let us know. Good day all.

A lot of the problems can be contributed to design flaws rather than manufacturing fault. Even though many notebooks are made in China, it's more likely that the company is owned or managed by a Taiwanese company. Taiwan produces 80% of the world's laptops. IBM contracted Taiwanese companies to make notebooks, and even Lenovo contracted Taiwanese companies to make notebooks for them, as they themselves don't have the quality standard yet.

Many complain that Dell is getting worse, or IBM is getting worse. You know what, Quanta computer in Taiwan makes all the notebooks for Dell, whether it was in the 90s or 2000s, so could they possibly forget how to make good notebooks? I don't think so.

Today's market is driven by price, by the fact that people want cheap and light notebooks, and thus notebooks are designed toward that needs. Sure, manufacturing faults will exist as long as you are having people to put them together, but manufacturers can't be blamed for all the poor quality notebooks of today.

[koolcaz]

Hey Trip I've got the optical flex too (and the gap.....although I think all are like that). The flex did worry me since it looked easily breakable but since it hasn't happened yet.....I can live with it. The gaps are disturbing but since I think they are a design feature I'm sure they are okay. The machine is still quite sturdy...I mean...has anyone actually had that part broken???

As long as the lid latches I'm okay I guess. I don't have a big wobble problem with my lid STS06. The tiny flex was only really noticable when I study it really hard.