Argh! I got gipped!

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DeusExMachaera · #1 Post by **DeusExMachaera** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:44 pm

So I looked up the parts on my incoming 2378 FVU and I got stuck with both the china keyboard and the sanyo battery. Should I call IBM and ask them to replace them even though I don't have my laptop yet?

Logi7 · #2 Post by **Logi7** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:46 pm

thats what i did

just used my serial number off the order tracking site

had my kb a week before i had the laptop

Nabeel · #3 Post by **Nabeel** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:05 pm

How do you know if you didn't get the laptop yet?
My FVU came with the Thai keyboard.

DeusExMachaera · #4 Post by **DeusExMachaera** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:06 pm

Theres a lookup you can use if you have the serial #

QbA · #5 Post by **QbA** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:32 pm

what are the part# for:

- Sony battery
- Thai keyboard

Thanks

atlacatl · #6 Post by **atlacatl** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:59 pm

DeusExMachaera wrote:Theres a lookup you can use if you have the serial #

What's the URL?

ian · #7 Post by **ian** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:31 pm

I just cannot believe what I'm reading here - why not complain to IBM that you've heard there may be dead/stuck pixels on the screen and would they mind changing it before it arrives...

Conmee · #8 Post by **Conmee** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:43 pm

Folks,

I'm a BIG proponent of complaining after you've paid hard-earned money for a product that doesn't meet your expectations or is in some way not living up to the manufacturer's promises/claims/specs/etc....

HOWEVER.... you should wait to receive the system first, IMO. There are quite a few users who have the China-made keyboard that have no problems with it and like it's quality. Same goes for some Sanyo batteries that simply fit better than the majority. Once you receive the system and determine whether or not it meets your requirements and expectations, then decide if it's worth the time and effort to get them replaced. In addition, if you get a system with one or multiple dead/stuck pixels, you'll probably also want to weigh the decision to send the whole unit back and try your luck a second time around.

I don't think anyone is getting 'gipped' by IBM. I just think that there is an unusually degree of variation in quality and fitment between batteries, keyboards, and LCDs lately from the various suppliers.... of course, we only hear about the complaints here... or more so than we hear from the absolutely satisfied consumers. So perceptions based solely on feedback in these forums is highly skewed...

Daniel.

jsmit86 · #9 Post by **jsmit86** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:56 pm

I think it is a good idea to see what you are dealing with prior to having them send out replacement parts. I got the Thai keyboard after having the issue with the right side flexing. After using it for a week, I think I will switch back to the Chinese keyboard, and just shim the right side. I like the feel of the original keyboard better, and the Thai while better, still flexes on the right side.

ian · #10 Post by **ian** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:03 pm

Conmee - your post was far more eloquent than I could ever hope to be. So far there are 1513 'members' of this forum, and I'd guess 75% of those have posted to query or complain, if only a tiny bit, but there are a VAST number of Thinkpad owners and users out there who never say a THING. One thing, however, really surprises me - whenever there's a complaint, which is generally dealt with fairly quickly, it's amazing how the reason for the criticism becomes writ in stone - I haven't the foggiest notion who built my keyboard, if the person had trouble with his kids the night before, where the plastic came from to build the case of my battery - and to be honest, I don't care - if it didn't work, I'd simply get it replaced.

All I've had wrong since receiving my laptop is a bad memory bar - holy cow guys, panic, don't buy Goldenrod memory 'cause it won't work...let's get real here.

benz · #11 Post by **benz** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:19 pm

ian and Conmee, thanks for posting...i was afraid i'd have to get on my soapbox again about this [censored]. I don't know why people who come here seem to immediately think they need to replace their keyboards and batteries from what theyve read in a couple of threads. #1 rule here people: if it doesn't WORK for YOU, then try to get it fixed; otherwise, just use the [censored] thing - thats why you got it, right?

RoadHazard · #12 Post by **RoadHazard** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:28 pm

Well, I haven't seen a Sony battery in person yet but my Sanyo battery works fine for me. It wiggles a little but I think I'll live with it. Fornately I have the Thai keyboard. So no comment from me on that.

Conmee · #13 Post by **Conmee** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:54 pm

Folks,

Anyone who's been on this site for awhile knows me and my litany of problems/prejudices/preferences regarding ThinkPads, and I generally support getting what one pays for, and taking issue with a vendor if items are not up to par. And I've also been one to inadvertantly stoke the flames of complaining/returning/replacing here.

I've uncovered or documented, dead pixels, noisy fans, BIOS problems, Dock II problems, heat problems, performance problems, squeaky palmrests, flexing and clackety keyboards, jiggly batteries, loose Multiburners, misaligned LCDs, and lids that don't quit close as firm as I'd like.

But in my defense, I do work with EDS and other vendors on a regular basis and with some auto manufacturers, and so I've had the distinct, if not unique, opportunity to evaluate and mess around with a wide array of ThinkPads.

Since October of last year, I've been able to use and inspect at least a dozen T41/T41p and a few R50p models. I've also owned 2 different T40p, 2 T41, a T42, and my current T42p... all either through buying and returning to IBM, or buying-using-selling on Ebay. So in the span of 10 months, I've been able to actually use over 2 dozen ThinkPads. And of those that I personally owned, my T40p was built the best, with no problems except the infamous 5 second fan cycling noise. The R50p, for all its warts was the best of ALL the ThinkPads I've been able to use. It was heavy, no doubt, but it was rock solid, no doubt about it. My current T42p is 'now' rock solid, after getting the Thai keyboard, Sony battery, using business cards strategically located beneath the arrow keys and the left side of the palmrest.... lol... oh, and by realigning the LCD so that it was centered within the display bezel. Now it feels like I think all ThinkPads should feel, no squeaks, solid keyboad, no pixel or battery or heat/fan issues. Maybe I should open up a post-sales ThinkPad modification 'chop shop' if you will.... lol

So to summarize, I've got an acute awareness of the various ThinkPad variations simply out of sheer volume of ThinkPads I come in contact with. And I've witnessed the variation between two Sanyo batteries or two China-made keyboards or IDTech v. Samsung LCDs, and again, while most of these parts were identical, there were variations even within a particular brand.

At any rate, I'm by no means unhappy with my ThinkPad, or a perennially dissatisfied customer. ThinkPads are still the best around. I think the only thing that surprises me is the consistency with which a corporate customer will receive ThinkPads that have some of the same issues that individuals who order ThinkPads see. At least IBM and their suppliers are consistent in that respect.

Daniel.

Flightvector · #14 Post by **Flightvector** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:26 pm

How much better is the Thai keyboard over the Chinese one? I have a new T42 15" and thought about ordering it, but I am not sure whether it is actually worth the small hassle to get the other keyboard. Does it just differ in keypress resistance or does it actually offer more positive tactile feedback (i.e. button presses are succinct, more notchy, and have shorter throws)? Heh I feel like I am talking about a manual transmission

.

In any case, I too seem a bit thrown off by the fluctuation of quality in thinkpads more recently that Conmee refers to. But I see getting the other keyboard simply a matter of taste rather than a complaint; I definitely wouldn't say that my keyboard is unuseable. I just feel that outsourcing is being integrated faster than quality control can be managed. It seems somewhat nearsighted when companies rely on outsourcing companies with participation levels that seem no higher than an on-client basis. So it certainly isn't like we aren't entitled to anything here. With more development in these countries, it will no doubt take a couple years for this to be ironed out. And I don't think this is too much to ask for, IBM thinks twice about the woes of mass-outsourcing technical support, so they keep it all domestic, yet they are almost alone in this type of thinking

.

rhema83 · #15 Post by **rhema83** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:07 pm

I've got a 2378-FVU and I don't even bother to check whether it comes with the Chinese or Thai keyboard, and Sanyo or Sony battery.

Well, I figured it's a Sanyo from the "Battery Information" window in Battery MaxiMiser Gauge. It doesn't fit that well but I fixed it by stacking some masking tape and sticking the "pad" onto the side of the battery cavity.

The keyboard flexes a little bit under the arrow keys but I sure can live with that. If I have the time, I can just fix it with the same method by putting a "pad" underneath the keyboard near the arrow keys.

pete0r · #16 Post by **pete0r** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:11 pm

i think i have a sanyo battery, but i don't have one single issue with it, nor do i have an issue with my keyboard. i think you guys are just looking for problems that you otherwise wouldn't notice. i didn't even notice the keyboard thing until i read this and i probably won't even notice it after i leave this thread, heh..

Skywing · #17 Post by **Skywing** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:19 pm

pete0r wrote:i think i have a sanyo battery, but i don't have one single issue with it, nor do i have an issue with my keyboard. i think you guys are just looking for problems that you otherwise wouldn't notice. i didn't even notice the keyboard thing until i read this and i probably won't even notice it after i leave this thread, heh..

i agree with ol pete here, my sanyo batt fits fine in my 3VU and the keyboard flex isnt enough for me to really take the time to open it up

jsmit86 · #18 Post by **jsmit86** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:27 pm

some of the recent posts seem to indicate that IBM may be doing something to alleviate the Keyboard flex problem. Again, this is a fit issue, rather than actual keyboard quality.

mdarnton · #19 Post by **mdarnton** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:05 pm

I use three things in my life which are at the top of their respective categories. I notice each one attracts a core group of nutcases who think that because they spend a certain amount of money that entitles them to a product of godlike perfection rather than something made by human hands. When the product turns out to be OK, they turn to complaining indignantly about getting a "supposedly new" box with fingerprints (and no, I'm not making that up). Pity them, and, especially, those who live with them.

(Please note I'm not naming names here--just making an observation about upper end consumers and a trend I see on this board and others. So if you feel compelled to complain about what I just said about "you", it's you who's pointing at yourself, not me :-)

Westin · #20 Post by **Westin** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:33 pm

atlacatl wrote:
DeusExMachaera wrote:Theres a lookup you can use if you have the serial #
What's the URL?

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm

DeusExMachaera · #21 Post by **DeusExMachaera** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:46 pm

There is nothing particularly wrong with attempting to get the best laptop for my money, and the evidence I have seen says that the Thai keyboards are significantly better. It is entirely up to IBM as to whether they will indulge my request or to deny it. If they do send me a keyboard, great, I have what should be a nicer keyboard. If they don't oh well, I wait to see whether the keyboard is really that bad and if it is, press the issue. At what point in this process are I insisting on godlike perfection from IBM? As for the "gipped", while ambiguous, it was more of a "gipped by luck" than a "gipped by IBM."

mdarnton · #22 Post by **mdarnton** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:35 am

You're right--it was the use of "gipped" that irritated me. Regardless of if by luck, or by IBM, if you get an item that's within IBM's specs, you weren't gypped--you got what you paid for. If people have different specs than the manufacturer's own, perhaps they would be happier finding a manufacturer who meets their standards.

cjsuh · #23 Post by **cjsuh** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:59 am

It's a debatable topic. First, I would ask, why do they make two different keyboards for the same laptop? Second, I would ask, when and why did they decide to forgoe the Thai-brand keyboard in favor of the China-brand keyboard, since the two are clearly different in quality.

You don't have to complain about the workmanship of your ThinkPad, especially if you're happy with it. But, that doesn't mean we have to feel the same way. What if you received a monitor with 10 dead pixels and IBM offered to replace it, despite their policy that requires 11 dead pixels for an LCD replacement? Would you say, "well, I paid for a product that falls within the guideline set by IBM of 11 dead pixels, so I'm not going to accept the replacement." Or would you say, "well, geez IBM, that's great of you to make that offer. I'll certainly take the replacement and tell all my friends about how wonderful your products and services are!" I bet you would go for option #2. And that's exactly how I feel about this keyboard issue. If you don't have issues with your China keyboard, don't judge those of us who do. I don't make any judgments about people who succesfully swapped out LCD's with fewer than 11 dead pixels. It's their right to ask IBM and it's IBM's right to comply or refuse.

atlacatl · #24 Post by **atlacatl** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:48 am

mdarnton wrote: ...When the product turns out to be OK, they turn to complaining indignantly about getting a "supposedly new" box with fingerprints (and no, I'm not making that up). Pity them, and, especially, those who live with them.
...

I am kind of the "you" in your post. I will not buy/accept ANYTHING that is supposed to be new - If I'm paying the price of a new item - that is open/barely oppened or has any sign that it has been opened/used before. This starts with $0.50 pens up to TVs, etc...

No it's not the clinical type of obssessivenes. It's just that if I'm really paying top dollar for a to top a NEW item, it should be BRAND new...Ok, the assamblers are allowed to touch it...

I do see what you are saying, but, to each its own - Some people are just really picky and it's a good thing IBM charges all that extra to account for those little eccentricities. In the end we all end up paying, yes (New models may be pricier), but, oh well...

mdarnton · #25 Post by **mdarnton** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:51 am

Yes, people are certainly different. I just consider myself lucky that in my situation I can reject customers who complain about my product before they've even seen or handled one.

RoadHazard · #26 Post by **RoadHazard** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:46 am

mdarnton wrote:You're right--it was the use of "gipped" that irritated me. Regardless of if by luck, or by IBM, if you get an item that's within IBM's specs, you weren't gypped--you got what you paid for. If people have different specs than the manufacturer's own, perhaps they would be happier finding a manufacturer who meets their standards.

My point exactly. A lot of people feel fine with the China keyboard as well as others who feel ok with the Sanyo battery, like myself. so I don't think these people are gibbed. If IBM offers say only the China keyboard from the beginning, we wouldn't have this kind of discussion too because we all are going to accept that the way it is.

In this sense, that's why I like IBM that they ok with the keyboard substitution. I doubt that this will be the case for other manufacturers.

Argh! I got gipped!

Argh! I got gipped!

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