missing IBM recovery/restore partiton: go forward or back?

[unitedunited]

I'm stuck in a limbo state between having/not having the hidden factory restore partiton and I hope folks with more experience than me can offer some advice...

I recently had to restore factory settings using the hidden partition. After that, I did about 25 steps worth of basic customization (removing the old/not used IBM apps, updating drivers, loading security software). Of this I made an Image using Acronis True Image, which I think is good software but perhaps not clear enough for people like me prone to moments of idiocy.

When I created the image, I only selected the (unhidden) c: partition, thinking, I suppose, that the hidden partition would remain, well, hidden. It didn't. At least, after I recovered the Acronis image I had made on DVD, it was no longer there and the access IBM predesktop area would no longer boot during startup.

I had not intended to ditch the recovery partition, but in the lemons-to-lemonade spirit I've thought that this could be an opportunity. I did make IBM recovery CDs (one is actually on DVD, which I hope is not a problem) so I can theoretically get the hidden partition back at any time. And now that I have a personalized base image, I'm unlikely to want to go all the way back there anyway.

I've seen a lot of posts here from people trying to take out their hidden partition, so I guess I want to know what's involved in going this route, (reformatting and repartitioning?).

On the other hand, I'm not sure the hidden partition is really gone. The C: files add up to 6.5 GB, whereas My Computer says my 55 GB HD (60 GB nominal) has 11 GB used. If it is still there, it might be easier to just try to get it back and proceed as I had been planning. I'm not scraping the bottom on HD space (yet) so it's more an issue of the efficiency to be gained from doing my own partitioning versus the potential pitfalls of messing with things.
thanks,
uu

[GomJabbar]

From another post I made in this forum earlier today.....

To begin with, it has been my experience that to see the Service Partition in Windows, you have to go to Start > Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Storage > Disk Management.

[unitedunited]

i checked disk management already. The hidden parition is not there. Perhaps the data from the partition is still there somewhere and that is why 6 GB or so is unaccounted for. But the partition itself is gone.

[unitedunited]

to ask a more specific question: if I am going to live without the hidden IBM recovery partition, then would it make sense to partition off the C: drive into what I have now, which is basically the factory restore with my personalized tweaks (updates, security software) and another partiton for all the software and data that gets added later? Does this involve a reformat and restoring the OS from the recovery disk set? Would this make my T42p run slower?

[BobA]

I also use True Image and have noticed the same thing but don't have 'knowledge' as to how. I have observed the following:
On the newer Thinkpads (at least the T42 - maybe earlier), IBM put the recovery partition on the drive and did not make it a partition - but rather just occupied the sectors at the end of your drive. Ie, they made it truly HIDDEN. How the BIOS boot knows to go there when you select the "Access IBM" button - I don't know. I have not investigated the partition table to understand all of that either. I believe they call it the PreDesktop area - you might search the web on that.

I had used HDWorkbench to copy my T42p 60G disk to a 100G disk (It does a sector-by-sector copy). The recovery section copied and I was able to do a restore using it. Also, someplace along the way, that partition appeared (I wasn't paying attention to through the process) and it now shows up on Disk Manager. Right now, I don't have the time to investigate and understand that more - maybe someone else can shed some light.

Regarding two partitions - I've done that to keep my 'data' separate from the OS (in case I have to restore the OS again) - that's a carryover from the old days. Since XP has backup and restore features (I've never used them so don't know how good they are), you should be able to recover to safe configurations.

There is no cost that I am aware of to having two partitions. You do reduce the amount of free space (since it's not combined, a partition can't use the other partition's free space when needed .. if that makes sense). If you use True Image, you can restore your image without going through the factory restore.

Hope this helps.

[unitedunited]

it does help, thanks... the IBM partition is indeed hidden and so I don;t understand how acronis could so easily wipe it out. That's why i think its data is likely to still be there, just not accessible from the BIOS, but no one's answered me on that point.

windows xp backup is a joke (this is why I got acronis). The system restore is fine when it works, but that is not always. The last time I was having trouble, system restore stubornly kept telling me it couldn't restore to various previous points, no reason given. so it is not reliable. I have dialed its disk allocation down to 5%.

I'm not too happy with acronis, not only because of the lack of safeguards and explanations (which in a user-friendly-looking program should be prominent) but also becuase I wasn't able to get several functions (like image mounting) of the program to work. I found a freeware called drive image xml which is very good at imaging and allwoing you to browse and restore those images. Unlike my experience with acronis, it restores within the partition rather than the entire disk and uses .xml and .cab files, so no proprietary files to keep you tied to one program. It won;t write to DVDs, although it will break up the data files into CD-sized chunks so you can do it yourself. It can run out of the Bart PE predesktop.

so I'm thinking more and more I should go with OS partitioning. Do I need to reformat? It seems like I don't have the option in windows disk management to add a partition to C:

thanks,
uu

[unitedunited]

on rereading your post, I realized you are right that the IBM restore partition is not a partition at all and I shouldn't call it that. It is the HPA or Hidden Protected Area. the fact that it's not a partition is probably why acronis wiped it.

[GomJabbar]

If you think it is still there, you can try the following....
Rescue and Recovery - Recovery repair diskette

[unitedunited]

If you think it is still there, you can try the following....
Rescue and Recovery - Recovery repair diskette

thanks for the link... I don;t think it would work because I never installed R+R (too heavy, I thought). It looks from the description that this only works with the full R+R, not the basic HPA for factory restore that i was relying on.

It seems like the HPA is either there (in which case I guess I should run the restore disc set to make it accessible again) or it is not (in which case I should forge ahead with partitioning into an OS and Data sector). The IBM_Service thing (which I'm now not sure is a true partition or just the HPA) is definitely not visible in disk mangement; is there a specific location I should check within the C: tree or do I need some sort fo partition software to be sure?

[GomJabbar]

I would say that if the partition table is correct, then you will see the service partition. If the partition table is incorrect, you will not see it. AFAIK, disk management looks at the partition table. I would still try the disk I linked to above. You really don't have much to lose that I can see.

How It Works: Partition Tables

[unitedunited]

sorry, but I'm not sure how to mount the above file to CD-ROM. I don't have an external 1.44. Not sure why lenovo can't provide .iso files given that most of their machines now ship without...

EDIT:

found the thread with the link to the .iso of the MBR repair (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ra&start=0) which I had read a while ago but forgot about. as ar as I can tell, none of the Download links that ramian had posted were still live.

[unitedunited]

also, I ran across an old posting of yours

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... rtitioning

which quoted

When you use the Product Recovery CDs, all data and partitions on your hard disk are deleted. The end result will be a single C: partition containing the original factory contents.

so does that mean that restoring from my CDs won't restore the IBM-Service partition? Is the HPA different from the service partition anyway? I'm still not clear on the basic architecture that IBM intended...

[BillMorrow]

if you restore from the CD's you make from the recovery partition OR from the recovery partition, the result is the same..
it restores the recovery partition..
or in the case of recovering from the recovery partition it just leanves it there..
in the past, the recovery CD's would reinstall the recovery partition and then run the recovery FROM the newly restored recovery partition..

boy, am i tired of typing "recovery partition"..

[BillMorrow]

AND, which one of you is or was using THIS email address: rcarndt@verizon.net

thanks

[unitedunited]

thanks I think the HPA/service partition (no one's yet been able to tell me whether those two things are coterminous) is a great feature but I just wish IBM/Lenovo was clearer and more upfront with documenting it.

not me on the email.

[GomJabbar]

thanks I think the HPA/service partition (no one's yet been able to tell me whether those two things are coterminous) is a great feature but I just wish IBM/Lenovo was clearer and more upfront with documenting it.

This first link has the best information for understanding the hard drive stucture on ThinkPads.
IBM Rescue and Recovery Deployment GuideVersion 2.0 Updated: November 19, 2004

ThinkVantage Technologies Deployment Guide

ThinkVantage Rescue and Recovery 3.0 - User's Guide