Dead Pixels :(

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flounder · #1 Post by **flounder** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:32 pm

Hi

After days of deliberating which PC to buy, deciding on the T42, gulping down the huge price tag, I finally received my T42 (2378FVU) this morning (bought it from IBM Direct). Excitedly I plugged it in and found out that there are two horrible dead pixels, a red one in the top left quadrant and a green one horribly in the center of the screen.

:'((((((((((((((

Does IBM have a thinkpad replacement policy if you get dead pixels. When I am paying such a huge price tag, one expects a flawless product not one with a crappy lcd? What do I do?

Sad and depressed,
Ali

G-Man · #2 Post by **G-Man** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:34 pm

You have 30 days to return it, and either ask for a refund or a replacement.

Regards,
G-Man

Leon · #3 Post by **Leon** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:34 pm

30 Days, return for ANY (or no) reason...if you don't like it, order another....

flounder · #4 Post by **flounder** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:49 pm

If I have it replaced and it comes with same or more dead pixels, can I return it again. If not, I guess I will just return it and buy a better brand ...

G-Man · #5 Post by **G-Man** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:56 pm

Yes, you can return that one too within 30 days, and the third one, and the next one, and...

By the way every laptop's LCD can have dead/stuck pixel (not just IBM). It's a very common problem.

Regards,
G-Man

admsteiner · #6 Post by **admsteiner** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:57 pm

return it.
--adam

Hangfire · #7 Post by **Hangfire** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:39 pm

Return it and let them know why.

plucky duck · #8 Post by **plucky duck** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:11 pm

It's luck of the draw. Just because you switch and go with another brand doesn't mean the possibility isn't there. That's a poor reason for switching brands IMO.

It's unfortunate, but things happen. I have a red pixel in the lower left bottom area of the screen. Under any background other than black it isn't noticeable. Since the resolution is higher, the dead pixel doesn't appear as big.

flounder · #9 Post by **flounder** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:04 pm

Hi

Thanks

Ok this is my first time with this kinda thing. How do I go about returning the notebook and getting it replaced? As in, whats the procedure etc. I got it through UPS ground shipping. Do I have to pay the return shipping etc?

Thanks

Greg Gebhardt · #10 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:09 pm

flounder wrote:Hi

Thanks

Ok this is my first time with this kinda thing. How do I go about returning the notebook and getting it replaced? As in, whats the procedure etc. I got it through UPS ground shipping. Do I have to pay the return shipping etc?

Thanks

Call IBM and they will tell you the procedure.

Leon · #11 Post by **Leon** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:46 pm

you will pay return shipping unless you have logged a Trouble Ticket about a problem with the machine.....

ian · #12 Post by **ian** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:42 pm

flounder wrote: If not, I guess I will just return it and buy a better brand ...

Please let us all know when you find a "better brand"...

Leon · #13 Post by **Leon** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:16 pm

Here's what I "think" is a new twist on the Dead Pixel Issue:

On my T42, every week or so, I see a "stuck on white" pixel in the upper left hand corner, noticeable if there is a dark color displayed in that area. If I minimize all programs, and run a Dead Pixel Checker, it's definitely stuck on white. HOWEVER, if I reboot, or log off, it goes back to normal. This has happened several times. What do you think causes this???

Leon · #14 Post by **Leon** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:53 pm

bump...... anyone?

#15 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:59 pm

I have two theories:

(1) Video driver bug - A driver problem caused my (0,0) pixel to be "dead" all the time. Reinstalling the driver using the ThinkPad software installer fixed the problem.

(2) Pixel is "conditionally" stuck - I have read that modern TFTs control pixels individually instead if in rows, and that pixels aren't supposed to affect each other.

My ThinkPad has 2 defective pixels, but one of these defective pixels only really lights up when a window with a significant amount of the color white is placed above it. Otherwise it behaves normally. I am sure this is not a driver problem because the same thing happens when I boot off a Linux CD.

Leon wrote:bump...... anyone?

aabram · #16 Post by **aabram** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:20 am

Can somebody point me to the link on IMB website where return policy is covered and explained? Direct link, preferrably. Search on IBM website is absolutely useless for this one.

#17 Post by **K. Eng** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:53 am

http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... &loc=en-us

IBM's defective pixel policy is one of the worst in the industry (8 bright, dark or 9 of both??? wtf?). Apple's secret policy is 7 dead or 5 stuck, and Dell's is 5 defective.

However, in reality I have seldom encountered a panel with more than 1 or 2 defects. The comfortably high standards that the manufacturers select essentially allow them to continue foisting defective products on the unsuspecting public.

aabram wrote:Can somebody point me to the link on IMB website where return policy is covered and explained? Direct link, preferrably. Search on IBM website is absolutely useless for this one.

aabram · #18 Post by **aabram** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:25 am

Thanks, that's a useful table too but I was not really looking for that one. I was wondering where they spell out their 30-day return policy.

Everybody here seems advising "just return" when something is wrong but obviously IBM Estonia has different kind of return policy (or actually none at all, so it seems). I've got brand new Thinkpad with one dead pixel right in the middle of a screen but I can't return it, they keep telling me. "Warranty doesn't cover it" they keep telling me. They don't get it that I don't want to repair it but to return it. It'd be helpful if I could point out something black on white for them. Otherwise I'm just stuck with non-usable unit and loads of wasted money

JHEM · #19 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:52 am

In the US the sale contract contains the following: http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... ct=2196979 but it only applies to units purchased directly from IBM in most instances.

Whether or not there is similar language in the IBM ES sale agreement is something you'll have to pursue on your end. If you purchased it from a dealer in ES, then you possibly aren't covered under the return policy.

Regards,

James

#20 Post by **K. Eng** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:54 am

Sorry... I misread your post completely. Here is the US policy:

For a new IBM Machine, you may return it to IBM for any reason within 30 days of the date of invoice and obtain a refund or credit. IBM does not provide refunds or credits for portions of a packaged offering provided at a single price. You may return the complete package for a refund or credit.

http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... ct=2196979

aabram wrote:Thanks, that's a useful table too but I was not really looking for that one. I was wondering where they spell out their 30-day return policy.

I was looking at the IBM Europe website and I was unable to find a return policy. Where exactly did you purchase this ThinkPad from? Did you get it direct from IBM or from a computer store?

aabram · #21 Post by **aabram** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:21 am

I ordered it via TD Baltic, who is distributor for many brands in Baltic countries. They don't have their own stores AFAIK, they usually sell directly to computer stores.

I've been on the phone with IBM Estonia and their sales manager keeps telling me that there is no such thing as "return for any reason" policy. Yadda-yadda about allowable number of dead pixels and telling that "can't replace", missing entirely the point of returning the item, not replacing it.

Reseller directed me to IBM Estonia, they direct me back to reseller. Both point fingers at each-other "they handle this, not us". So there.

#22 Post by **K. Eng** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:05 pm

I think you have a problem...

The 30-day return only works if you bought your machine directly from IBM (and IBM does not even appear to sell machines direct in Europe).

Here in the US, if you buy a machine from a reseller, your exchange/return policy is with the reseller, not IBM. IBM won't take your machine back, because you didn't buy it from them, and the reseller obviously doesn't want to take the machine back and and sell it at a loss as an open box or refurb.

I can't think of any good solution for you. You could sell the machine to someone else, but its resale value will be significantly less since it has a defective pixel in the center of the screen

You could buy a new LCD panel from a vendor that will guarantee a defect free panel, but this will be very expensive.

This is why I hate the fact that manufacturers allow defective pixels and don't make it clear upfront to consumers that these things exist. It's unfair, unethical, and annoying.

herbie · #23 Post by **herbie** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:08 pm

In the EU, for *every* non-commercial order made solely by telecommunication means, there is an *unrestricted* return policy for at least seven days, starting from the arrival of the goods.

This is a so called European guideline. Since Estonia is - as far as I know

- a member of the EU, there should be some national 'implementation' of that guideline. This national right must at least ensure the rights given by the guideline, it may even go further. For example, in Germany there is a 14 days return period. (The dealer even has to pay for and is responsible for the shipping back.)

K. Eng wrote:This is why I hate the fact that manufacturers allow defective pixels and don't make it clear upfront to consumers that these things exist. It's unfair, unethical, and annoying.

I agree. IBM (and others) should either reject all and every defective panel, or sell them with a reasonable discount (i.e. sell perfect ones for a premium pricing). The usual practice of picking as long as you get a good one (which includes "weak" customers to pay for that by buying faulty displays) is pretty unsatisfying.

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