Faster HDD Ordered, More RAM Needed?

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JHaislet · #1 Post by **JHaislet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:12 am

My T43 has gotten down right SLOW with only about 63 running processes.

The pagefile usually stays around 550MB, yet I have 1GB of DDR2 ram (2x512MB sticks). (pagefile is continuous on the HDD and 2048MB in size).

I mainly use this laptop for MS OneNote and some heavy internet usage with Firefox. Firefox is quite a hog though, as having a couple news sites & forum sites open bumps up it's memory usage to 150-250MB's.

On average, I usually have about 300MB of available Physical Memory (according to Windows Task Manager).

Bootup is agonizingly slow as the HDD seems to be pegged out for at least two minutes or so. The machine acts like it's swapping a bunch of info from RAM to the pagefile & back & forth.

I ordered a 100GB Hitachi 7K100 7200rpm drive to replace the 80GB 5K100 5400rpm drive (will use the 80GB as a mirrored spare).

Am I to the point where I need more RAM? Would replacing the 2x 512MB sticks with 2x 1GB sticks help? Would XP SP2 further reduce the Pagefile size if I popped in 2GB of ram?

Melvyn · #2 Post by **Melvyn** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:46 am

Your issue isn't memory.

My T42 with 1GB goes pretty fast and I use a lot of stuff more than you. Developing tools, compiler, etc.

I don't use swap file. with 1gb you don't need swapfile for basic stuff.

Firefox have a lot of memory leaks. Maybe you're affected by some virus, spyware or something so. Upgrade to Firefox 2 whith some fix regarding to memory leaks. Try without pagefile (you don't need it).

I use firefox very loaded with 15-20 windows. Previous versions (1.5 an others) reached 400mb of ram.

You can try with tune-up utilities to clean your computer. It's pretty good.

JHaislet · #3 Post by **JHaislet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:50 am

Yeah, these results were similar even after upgrading to Firefox v2 last week. I use Symantec Antivirus and have no spyware or other leaching applications running.

#4 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:05 am

JHaislet wrote:Yeah, these results were similar even after upgrading to Firefox v2 last week. I use Symantec Antivirus and have no spyware or other leaching applications running.

I presume your disk has been thoroughly defragged?

JHaislet · #5 Post by **JHaislet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:18 am

Yep, I have Windows command-line defrag utility scheduled to run twice a week.

#6 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:40 am

JH, what kind of AV software are you running?

JHaislet · #7 Post by **JHaislet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:45 am

Symantec Corporate v.10.xxx

#8 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:01 pm

Well, while I don't care for anything Symantec (this is my personal experience) I wouldn't think the corporate version would be causing a severe slowdown like that. Are you connected to a network when you reboot, maybe looking for a domain controller.
Sometimes I monitor system idle process at boot to see what it hogging the most cpu. Maybe look in event viewer to see if any security events are logged, system or application.

#9 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:25 pm

JHaislet wrote:Yep, I have Windows command-line defrag utility scheduled to run twice a week.

Have you checked the GUI version, too, and all looks clean? How full is your disk?

Which part of the Windows startup takes a long time?
- Windows logo on screen?
- Blue background, waiting for login screen
- Login completed, waiting for desktop to be ready

Melvyn · #10 Post by **Melvyn** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:39 pm

I don't know if this is your case, but if you use the Client Security Solution then you'll have a slow boot time.

JHaislet · #11 Post by **JHaislet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:47 pm

Yeah, I've looked at the GUI, it looks really good. Almost a solid band of blue with a few tiny slivers of red fragments. The green pagefile is contiguous. I think I'm just going to perform a clean install when the new Hitachi 7K100 gets here.

#12 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:53 pm

JHaislet wrote:Yeah, I've looked at the GUI, it looks really good. Almost a solid band of blue with a few tiny slivers of red fragments. The green pagefile is contiguous. I think I'm just going to perform a clean install when the new Hitachi 7K100 gets here.

What about the startup delay? Which part is slow?

lpenner · #13 Post by **lpenner** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:18 pm

I don't mean to hijack this thread but...

I saw mention of the Client Security Solution. I downloaded and installed it because I thought it was a wise thing to do. I'm having doubts.

The boot up time is slowed. Also, I tried to boot into safe mode earlier today and it hung while the embedded security chip was being checked. I never did get to a safe mode boot.

Does anyone have any tips about removing Client Security Solution? Is it as simple as using Add/Remove Programs?

Thanks

JHaislet · #14 Post by **JHaislet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:01 pm

tomh009 wrote: Which part of the Windows startup takes a long time?
- Login completed, waiting for desktop to be ready

This seems to be where the most lag is. The HDD will stay pegged out for a considerable amount of time. For example, I opend Task Manager as soon as physically possible after the desktop started to load up, and the pagefile went from about 150MB to 400MB+ by the time windows had finished loading up.

I'm not on a domain controller network and don't have THAT many tool bar items (also Client Security Solution is NOT installed).

Tool bar programs that load up on startup:
1) ATI Catalyst (little red ATI logo)
2) Logitech mouse software (programs buttons on MX1000)
3) Cisco Clean Access Agent (used for network security at networks I use)
4) Rightmark CPU Clock Utility (bumps the CPU voltage down a bit so the machine runs cooler, this is rock solid, no crashes)
5) Symantec Corp Antivirus (little yellow shield)
6) IBM Power Manager Gauge
7) IBM Active Protection Icon (turns off the hdd if it gets bumped/dropped)

That's it besides the normal windows stuff (e.g. network icon, speaker, hardware removal, ect).

#15 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:18 pm

JHaislet wrote:
tomh009 wrote: Which part of the Windows startup takes a long time?
- Login completed, waiting for desktop to be ready
This seems to be where the most lag is. The HDD will stay pegged out for a considerable amount of time. For example, I opend Task Manager as soon as physically possible after the desktop started to load up, and the pagefile went from about 150MB to 400MB+ by the time windows had finished loading up.

I'm not on a domain controller network and don't have THAT many tool bar items (also Client Security Solution is NOT installed).

Tool bar programs that load up on startup:
1) ATI Catalyst (little red ATI logo)
2) Logitech mouse software (programs buttons on MX1000)
3) Cisco Clean Access Agent (used for network security at networks I use)
4) Rightmark CPU Clock Utility (bumps the CPU voltage down a bit so the machine runs cooler, this is rock solid, no crashes)
5) Symantec Corp Antivirus (little yellow shield)
6) IBM Power Manager Gauge
7) IBM Active Protection Icon (turns off the hdd if it gets bumped/dropped)

That's it besides the normal windows stuff (e.g. network icon, speaker, hardware removal, ect).

Those look OK. Symantec is the heaviest of the bunch, but I run it myself, and mine still starts up faster. But here's something to try:

1. Open Task Manager. Use View > Select columns to add Virtual Memory Usage, I/O Read Bytes and I/O Write Bytes.

2. Reboot and login

3. As soon as the desktop is ready, take a look at the task Manager. Are any of the process showing high I/O numbers? What about the initial VM usage?

Melvyn · #16 Post by **Melvyn** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:40 pm

Security chip is a good solution if you're seriously encouraged with security. I mean: if you're a CIA Agent and have stored a sort of ultra secret stuff there. Or if you work at Coca Cola and have the secret formula to make coca cola.

Else, Security Chip is too much for a common user.

You can disable the "security chip" and still you have fingerprint active.

Security chip also monitor almost everything you do at your computer. Try disabling it.

To disable security chip:

Start > All Programs > ThinkVantage > Client Security Solution

Go to menu bar > Advanced > Change Security Chip status

Click on button Deactivate.

pianowizard · #17 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:25 am

Is your hard drive almost full? That can slow down your computer big time. Can you remove some unnecessary files, or at least run CCleaner? Defrag afterward.

JHaislet · #18 Post by **JHaislet** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:47 am

Doing good on free space (~45% free, 34GB free of 75GB).
Ran defrag again (no red this time).
Also dumped AIM for Trillian. AIM seems to be major bloatware and was using upwards of 30-40MB of ram.
Trillian plays nicer @ ~16MB.

We'll see what happens when I restart next. I usually re-install windows every 3-4 months, however, it's been 8 months since my last format/reinstall, so we'll see.

JHaislet · #19 Post by **JHaislet** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:50 pm

Update:

I had some time this week and got the new Hitachi 7K100 100GB 7200 (HTS721010G9AT00) installed. Figured it was best to start new, so I did a clean install of XP. However, this time, the only ThinkVantage program I installed was the Fingerprint Reader Software.

Questions:

1) ATI PowerPlay - Instead of installing the ATI Catalyst software package, I just used the ATI X300 drivers off of Windows Update. Will PowerPlay automatically kick-in when the laptop is on batteries with these drivers?

2) IBM Hard Disk Active Protection System (Shock Protection) - I have not installed the "APS" program yet in Windows. Is the Shock Protection mechanism a hardware program that runs whenever the laptop is physically powered on? Or is it a software program that requires the APS program to be installed and running?

My T43 currently is running about 38-40 processes, and I'd like to keep it that way if at all possible. I've noticed in the past that MUCH of the IBM software is really resource intensive, and if at all possible, I'd rather do with out.

davidspalding · #20 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:23 am

I believe the APS is software that uses sensors in your TP to operate the hard drive. I would recommend it, if you carry your laptop while running (some execs I've seen only dock once or twice a day, no kidding).

I hear you about some of the utilities being so much bloatware, I've talked myself into keeping most running, but the Message Center and such, naw.

My experience with Symantec is that it is indeed a system boat anchor. I've used McAfee for year, few complaints, switching to BitDefender this winter, even fewer complaints (top-rated for speed by Consumer Reports, so....). Of course, if your workplace mandates Symantec, so be it.

I would leave your pagefile at "system managed size." In 99.9% of the times I've checked, XP was setting my pagefile at the size that conventional wisdom recommended for manual settings. I've run without a pagefile once in a while, as an experiment (I have 2GB RAM, dual-channel, so no worries about available RAM), but some Windows programs need the virtual memory to work properly and "play well with others." Microsoft (or one of their MVPs) has an in-depth article about how virtual memory works in XP versus previous releases, I don't have the link handy, but it explained in detail how XP is a different situation than older Windows. OTOH, if you have your second drive in all the time, try putting your system drive pagefile at 250mb/500mb, and then put a "system managed size" pagefile on the second hard drive. (FYI, I don't think you can do this if your drives are mirrored.) I do this when I'm working in Photoshop and Premiere, and Windows runs pretty speedily. (Of course, Photoshop's scratch drive, and the work files, are on the second drive, and this accounts for some performance benefits as well).

P.S. Melvyn, you mentioned the security chip "monitor almost everything you do at your computer." Um, do you have any information that corroborates that? I think you're mistaken, it's not a "surveillance" module. My recollection is that it provides hardware encryption for stored passwords, fingerprint profiles, etc.

christopher_wolf · #21 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:31 pm

The Security Chip is only for the archival and retrival of secure data and isn't much of a pass-through device for everyday computing and it doesn't maintain requests or deny actions unless they have to do with something like CSS and the password was wrong.

Faster HDD Ordered, More RAM Needed?

Faster HDD Ordered, More RAM Needed?

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