Oops! I think I killed My T41! Is There Any Hope?

[tobiesmom]

Hi Everyone!

Until a few days ago, I owned a T41 (purchased in 1-2005) that was the most wonderful laptop that I've ever owned. (I've never owned another brand of laptop and never will!). I've had it for almost two years and it's never crashed or had any problems whatsoever.

In return for nearly two years of faithful service, how did I reward this wonderful laptop?

I 'accidentally' spilled a glass of water on the keyboard!!

Well, you can guess what I'm going to say next . . .

I KILLED MY BABY!!!!!!!!!!

I can't get the laptop to power on at all. When I plug in the adapter, the power indicator light does not come on.

I've taken the keyboard off and inspected the inside and it seems
dry to me?

Is this any chance of reviving the patient?

The laptop is out of warranty. Am I resolved to selling my loyal companion for parts on Ebay?

Caro

[coreman]

My suggestion is to take the battery out, pull the keyboard off and leave it open for a few days to dryout then try again. Electronics these days are amazingly resilient to spills if given enough time.

[NS]

@tobiesmom,

Welcome to thinkpads community

This topic has been discussed many times. Topic ranging from spill hot milk, coffee, etc...

If you say immediately after the spill, you turn on your TP, then your motherboard must be fried. If you let it dry and leave it for a few days before inspecting the damage, then it should work since it is only a cup of water unless it is a soft drink or some liquid with sugar in it.

So did you leave your TP dry before inspecting the damage?

[cmarti]

My suggestion is to take the battery out, pull the keyboard off and leave it open for a few days to dryout then try again.

Also you may apply heat for a few minutes with a hair drier, that will also help.

[NS]

My suggestion is to take the battery out, pull the keyboard off and leave it open for a few days to dryout then try again.

Also you may apply heat for a few minutes with a hair drier, that will also help.

The hairdryer must be at the lowest speed and at it's coolest temperature...

Good Luck to revive your TP... *wake up baby*

[tobiesmom]

Thanks, everyone, for all of your helpful suggestions!

I've taken the battery and keyboard out and now I'll try drying the inside a bit with my hairdryer.

The accident happened a few days ago. The Thinkpad was actually shut off at the time. It was late and I was on my way to bed when I knocked over the glass of water that was nearby. I dried off the keyboard and shook out the water that had gotten inside.

Then, I left it to dry and went to bed.

When I tried to power up the laptop the next day, I discovered it was 'dead!'

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one that has been careless like this!

Caro

[tobiesmom]

Well, here it is Monday morning and my Thinkpad is still not functioning.

What would be my best course of action?

Should I replace the motherboard (assuming that's the problem?)

Or . . .

Should I buy a good, refurbished one on Ebay and vow never to go within 100 yards of my Thinkpad with any form of liquid?

I could also sell my non-functioning T41 for parts? Just remove the hard drive and sell the rest of the laptop? Or would it be best to sell the individual parts?

Here's the specs:

IBM Thinkpad T41 P-M 1.4GHz, 256MB RAM, 40 GB 5400rpm HDD, 14.1 XGA (1024x768) TFT LCD, 32MB ATI Radeon 7500, 16x10x24x/8x CD-RW/DVD, Intel 802.11b wireless (MPCI), MOdem (CDC), 8Gb Ethernet (LOM), UltraNav, Secure Chip (TCPA), 6c Li-Ion battery, WinXP Pro

Of course, the person buying the laptop wouldn't get the 40 GB laptop with the WinXP Pro!

Model Name: 2378DHU
Part Number: 2378XX4

I purchased the laptop in 1/05 and it was Brand New Factory Sealed IBM Recertified.

Best laptop I ever had! Sniff!
Unlike the Dell desktop from which I am posting this message!

Thanks for all your input and advice!


Caro

[PatrickE]

If you have the time, try throwing your 41 in the refrigerator for a couple of days. It has extremely low humidity and will dry out electronics quite easily.

I have not tried it on a Thinkpad, but it has worked wonders on the numerous cell phones that have gone for a swim while in my possession.

Good luck.

[joester]

That, or if you're in a sunny part of the world, you could try setting it on a window sill in full sun on a dark towel disassembled as far as you dare for a day or two.

Joe

[vlyne]

That, or if you're in a sunny part of the world, you could try setting it on a window sill in full sun on a dark towel disassembled as far as you dare for a day or two.

Joe

Sounds like a good idea. Reminds me of what my grandma said to me when I was young (many years ago!) when the old valve radio started to play up. She told me to take it out and leave it in the sun. Guess what, it worked! Somethings never change! Once the laptop is reasonably dry from the hair blower, I'd be tempted to put it in a clear plastic bag, place some moisture absorbing sacks in the bag, seal it and leave it out in the sun. A great excuse to go for a tropical holiday! Ah yes, you will need to check that your CMOS battery is OK and it's best to take it out and dry out the connection. Take off all the other removables as well till all is dry. Wipe the connections dry.

The fridge idea is OK so long as there are no moisture bearing foodstuffs in the fridge. A dehumidifier, or fruit dying cabinet (without fruit) could also be used.
Have fun!

Sorry Joe, I can't remember meeting up in some other forum (swedishbricks?).

[NS]

If you have the time, try throwing your 41 in the refrigerator for a couple of days. It has extremely low humidity and will dry out electronics quite easily.

I have not tried it on a Thinkpad, but it has worked wonders on the numerous cell phones that have gone for a swim while in my possession.

Good luck.

I will not throw my thinkpad into a refrigerator! Just for some extra knowledge... won't the circuit be damaged by the condensation?

I have tried this method on my O2 PDA and everything is fine except the 2 weeks old battery is dead!!!

That, or if you're in a sunny part of the world, you could try setting it on a window sill in full sun on a dark towel disassembled as far as you dare for a day or two.

Joe

Remember do not place your external battery and HDD together with the parts under the hot sun...

I recommend you to place all the parts in a shady place where there is some heat from the sun and let it dry itself off thoroughly. Don't risk by placing everything directly under the sun.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: originator of this thread,

The minutes when you spill water on your thinkpad, did you hear any sizzing sound or some odd sounds coming from your thinkpad. Did you see any smoke?

Answer these 3 questions...^

If the answer to the 3 questions is yes, then your motherboard or something in your thinkpad is fried...

Good Luck.

[bontistic]

I like Joe's idea, that will allow water to evaporate from the individual parts separately.

If you have the time, you can try this:

Grab an extra large airtight container which would fit your T41 disassembled and put a few silica gel packets on the flooring of the container. Lay your parts on top of the packets and then add another layer of silica gel packets on top. Finally cover the container and make sure no air gets in/out. Leave all of these for about 24-48 hours and then reassemble and retest.

This is what I do to my cameras whenever I get occasional splashes or showers (although I do not disassemble them)

[NS]

http://www.ehow.com/how_113626_clean-laptop-spills.html

[joester]

In my part of the world, you don't need special ink to fight sunbleaching..

I wouldn't be to awful worried about the HDD unless you live in a desert climate.

Yes, I agree with the desiccant idea, but having desiccants onhand sufficient to perform a drying of this magnatude is unlikely.

Vlyne: There is another from Australia who likes to add "cheers" to the end of his posts in another forum I monitor. I saw it above and thought maybe he was incognito on this forum. No matter.
Hello down under!
Joe

[Hotbrick]

..... It was late and I was on my way to bed when I knocked over the glass of water that was nearby. I dried off the keyboard and shook out the water that had gotten inside.

Then, I left it to dry and went to bed.
Caro

You must have been very tired not to open it right away!!

Is it still not functioning?
Anyway good luck in reviving it or getting another one / other parts.

[PatrickE]

I will not throw my thinkpad into a refrigerator! Just for some extra knowledge... won't the circuit be damaged by the condensation?

I have tried this method on my O2 PDA and everything is fine except the 2 weeks old battery is dead!!!

Sorry, you don't have to throw it. Even though sometimes I am tempted to do so.

No, there is no condensation inside a refrigerator, assuming you don't have a gallon of water or other liquids open.

The process of refrigeration removes all moisture from the air when it passes through the evaporator. Any moisture that is present, condenses on the evaporator and is drained away.

So barring a very sunny day in East Tennessee during November, I would say that the refrigerator is a good option. The desiccant packages mentioned by vlyne is also a good idea.

[joester]

Desiccant for the great "thaw" when it's removed from the fridge, maybe...
That's where the only drawback is. Condensation on the cold components (metals first!) putting the moisture back where it came from as it warms up to room temperature.

If I were to try this route, I think I would leave it opened in the fridge as long as I could stand it, then put it in a sealable bag (zip-loc) with the seal opened for a few hours, then seal the bag and remove the computer. Let it warm overnight before you open the bag to reduce the chance of condensation.

..there is the other end of the spectrum...remember Hansel and Gretel? But that's REALLY playing with fire.

[vlyne]

I have tried this method on my O2 PDA and everything is fine except the 2 weeks old battery is dead!!!

The internals could have crystallis(z)ed?? Since you have nothing to lose, might as well try Joe's method and put them out in the sun. It may take a while for the crystals to change phase
Cheers

[NS]

Sorry, you don't have to throw it. Even though sometimes I am tempted to do so.

No, there is no condensation inside a refrigerator, assuming you don't have a gallon of water or other liquids open.

The process of refrigeration removes all moisture from the air when it passes through the evaporator. Any moisture that is present, condenses on the evaporator and is drained away.

So barring a very sunny day in East Tennessee during November, I would say that the refrigerator is a good option. The desiccant packages mentioned by vlyne is also a good idea.

Thanks for the explanation.

Most people do commit some mistakes that is after they spilled water onto their TP, what they did was to switch the thing off and pick it up and shook it vigorously expecting the water to gush out. *don't do this, this is wrong!!!*

I have tried this method on my O2 PDA and everything is fine except the 2 weeks old battery is dead!!!

The internals could have crystallis(z)ed?? Since you have nothing to lose, might as well try Joe's method and put them out in the sun. It may take a while for the crystals to change phase
Cheers

No, i left the PDA in the oven and wrap the battery with loads of bubble wrap and newspaper and left it in the freezer for the whole day and 3 days later, i started to put everything back together and start the PDA and tada...... it fired right up and last for only 1 week before the battery was completely dead.

[coreman]

I went swimming with my cell phone last year...of course it died and the LCD filled with water. But I took it to local repair shop in Taiwan and they clamped it to a high speed rotating disc to throw all the water out, dried it, and then changed out (2) ICs that controlled something in the power circuit. Total cost $40 USD...

Phone works fine now except the camera module was killed...my point is, take it down to a local repair shop and get an estimate for repair...very likely it won't be excessive and may only involve one or two ICs that may have been shortcircuited with the water...and if you don't like the price, get a second opinion, just like a doctor!

[pipspeak]

try the oven... I have had success drying out electronics by putting them in an oven on "warm" (very low heat) overnight. If that doesn't dry it out, nothing will.

Hey, if it's still not working you've nothing to lose!

[gunston]

i had an experience in spilling the water onto my T43 before,
i was so panic at that moment, yet decided to take out the keyboard and blown it with a hair dryer for bout an hour (using a tripod jack to hold the dryer).

wow, to my surprise!!!
it works!!!!

[tobiesmom]

Wow, you guys really like to live on the edge!

I don't know whether to chill my Thinkpad or "shake 'n bake" it!

Seriously, though . . . I just cannot bring myself to put my Thinkpad in the oven!

But, if I was to place it in the fridge, how long should I leave it in there? And what parts do I need to remove before doing so?

The battery, obviously. What about the hard drive?

Caro,
the proud owner of a 'dead' T41

[joester]

Keep in mind I haven't had to go this route, but I'm applying about 25 years of electronics manufacturing experience and about 10 years of monkeying around with computers....

The Hard drive is pretty much sealed, and the cold won't hurt it.
Things to remove:
1.) Battery
2.) Keyboard
3.) Ram Access hatch
4.) Any other "easily" removeable component.

Fridge time would depend on exactly how much water went in.
I would shoot for a week if possible. Make sure the Ziploc bag will hold the computer and seal too. I think that will be key in this attempt to remove moisture. Condensation as the computer warms up after the chill is my only concern.
Once the bagged computer is removed, allow it to warm a full 24 hours before opening the bag.

Good luck!

Joe

<edit> Forgot to emphasize that the majority of chill time will be as is and NOT bagged. You want maximum exposure.

[rkawakami]

I would say your best bet would be dry the motherboard devoid of any and all other pieces (e.g. batteries, keyboard, memory, hard drive, Ultrabay drive, LCD and bottom case) inside a low humidity, warm chamber. In other words, an oven. The reason being is that if you want remove all source of moisture from the motherboard, assuming that's what's causing your non-power problem, then a refrigerator won't do unless you keep the door closed throughout the entire process. As soon as you open the frig, some warm, moist, room air will enter. I tried searching for storage temperature maximum specifications on IBM's site but came up empty. No doubt the motherboard could stand the estimated 36-40F temperatures in a normal refrigerator. I would NOT recommend a freezer unless you can find a specification somewhere which says the board could tolerate such a temperature. The motherboard should be able to withstand 100-120F for some time as the solder reflow process used to attach the components to the board is much higher. I think it's in the order of 400F for just a few seconds. Compounding the problem of moisture, and as pointed out earlier by others, as soon as you remove the board from the frig and begin to warm it up, condensation will form unless you keep the board isolated in a very low humidity environment.

My natural inclination would be that if you think most of the water has already been removed, then your laptop will work as is unless there has been some electrical damage. That damage could be a blown fuse, which NO amount of freezing or baking will fix, or some contamination on the board which is causing a short. To give you some perspective on this type of accident: My older daughter knocked over a flower vase onto the top of her 600X laptop during the night. She woke up to a computer that was off, when she knew she had left it on. It would attempt to power up, but no display was forthcoming on either the LCD or external video. I had her leave it out in the sun for several hours while I made plans to drive down to Los Angeles with another laptop. When I got it home and took it apart I found some residue surrounding the docking port pins on the motherboard. It looked like some white powder had been baked onto the board. I cleaned it up with isopropyl alcohol and the system came back to life. It's possible that there was some kind of floral preservative in the water; I don't know. I don't know how much water got into the laptop or how long it was there. I do know that I wasn't going to put the motherboard through any more stress that what it had seen without a visual inspection first.

I hope that the problem with your system is simpler to fix; maybe a fuse has blown. In that situation, you would probably have to take the system into a repair shop and have them look at it.

Good luck!

[vlyne]

I'd agree with Ray that the poor machine shouldn't be subjected to more trauma. Oven baking may be a bit risky depending on the type of oven you have. Most ovens have bang-bang control systems that turn the power on and then off so in reality the oven temperature fluctuates around the set temperature. A fan-forced oven would have less fluctuation but still a bit risky. You don't need high temperatures just warm and low humidity.

After the machine drys, look out for white fluffy stuff around the chip pins which is corrosion caused by galvanic action between different metals - solder and chip pins/tracks - in the presence of a conducting fluid; and made worse by the presence of a current/warmth. You'll need to get rid of the stuff.

I just resurrected a couple of dead/flooded digital cameras a couple of days ago by just cleaning out the circuit boards and the connectors. The LCDs were OK but the EEPROM batteries were dead.

Cheers

[tobiesmom]

Thanks, guys, for all of your suggestions!

Is the motherboard very difficult to remove? I've never removed or replaced any parts from this laptop, other than the keyboard (and the battery!).

Next week, we're supposed to warm up to near 60 degrees with sunshine. Perhaps I should remove the motherboard and put it out in the sun for a few hours?

Needless to say, I'm going through SERIOUS Thinkpad withdrawal at this point!

Caro

[eggman]

Let me add my $.02. Fortunately, I've never personally had to make this heat vs. cold decision, but on first principles, heat provides better drying: warm air can contain more water vapor. Cold air (in the fridge) does contain less water vapor, and is therefore "drier", but also has less capacity to absorb more water from evaporation- it's already pretty saturated from evaporation from prduce, etc. already in the fridge. Also, risk of condensation on removal to room temp is a concern. Putting it in a sealed bag in the fridge does nothing.

Granted the oven is a bit scary, but if you have a digital thermometer, set on warm, turn off, and cool until temp is ~140 degrees F. That is about 69 degrees C, which, if you see threads on CPU temps, is not an unusual (and presumably safe) temp for the computer. (also, probably a typical interior car temp on a sunny day.

My inclinication would be to set the laptop on a heating pad overnight. If you body can tolerate the heat, the Thinkpad should, too!

[rkawakami]

Is the motherboard very difficult to remove? I've never removed or replaced any parts from this laptop, other than the keyboard (and the battery!).

Difficult to remove, not so much. I'd say the biggest problem if you've never done a motherboard extraction is keeping track of all the different screws you remove. If you have a copy of the Hardware Maintenance Manual, then you have the best directions for success. A copy for the T4x series is available from this link:

HMM for T4x systems

Carefully read each step prior to actually doing it. It helps if you have a sectional tray (think desk drawer organizer) or lots of small cups to hold the various screws. Putting a post-it note with the part/step/FRU information written on it in with the screws/hardware you just removed makes it much less of a chance later to ask yourself the question, "now where did this go??". I have not had any experience with the T4x series but I have plenty with the T23s. Be careful handling any pieces which have ribbon cables hanging off as those can tear and cause you more headaches. Also, be aware of any possibility of static charges developing when you handle the electronics. Dissipate the charge by touching a piece of metal (say a computer case) or a nearby person .

Perhaps I should remove the motherboard and put it out in the sun for a few hours?

If it's enough where you would start putting on suntan lotion, then that should work. Although I would still recommend an oven, or as eggman suggests, a heating pad.

[tobiesmom]

Okay, I'm going to be 'adventuresome' and try leaving my T41 on a heating pad (low setting, I assume?) overnight?

It won't hurt to try and maybe, just maybe, I'll get lucky and the heating pad will do the trick!

Caro
P.S. What is a 'Ram Access Hatch?'