T42 shuts down when i move it

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paulproteus · #121 Post by **paulproteus** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:11 pm

skunkwerz, what do you mean by ECA?

skunkwerkz · #122 Post by **skunkwerkz** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:22 pm

Engineering Change Announcement ask an authorized servicer

paulproteus · #123 Post by **paulproteus** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:48 am

How did you hear about the ECA? Do you have an ECA number?

I have a T40 whose warranty expired in January that has this problem, so I'm quite eager to learn more. (-:

frankie66 · #124 Post by **frankie66** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:56 pm

I just wedge my graphics chip with an eraser! Works great... the rubbery material was easy to make the right shape and size. Not sure about heat so I made it slightly smaller (not covering all the chip) so that air can still circulate. I hate that my T41 has this and would willing swap the MB myself if it didn't cost double what I paid for the entire machine on eBay. I can understand 3 years is long enough for a warranty but surely they could make it cheaper for DIY repairers to buy replacement parts? Send in a broken System board get a new one back for say 50 dollars? Why should they make money off someone repairing their manufacturing flaw? come on Lenovo sell these boards at cost!

paulproteus · #125 Post by **paulproteus** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:02 pm

An eraser, like just from the back of a classic yellow pencil like https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Pencil.png ?

I guess you just took a knife and cut a small disc out, or what?

Thanks for the note; I'll see about trying this soon on my dad's laptop.... (-:

frankie66 · #126 Post by **frankie66** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:13 pm

No it was a white block like this
http://www.neo66.com/eraser.jpg

cuppingmaster · #127 Post by **cuppingmaster** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:18 pm

My R52 came up with a similar issue after it was left on in a neoprene case AND in my backpack with me on the bus.

I was all ready to go buy an HD from Best Buy this afternoon and use the firmware update tool, but I think the post-it solution is what I'll work on later tonight. Thanks to all you clever people who discovered all that. Though, I do think I have a long heatsink and fan assembly, so it may not limited to models with the short assembly. I'd love to try the reflow idea, but I'll have to acquire a heat gun first.

Perhaps I'll report back with some photos. I'm going to try some post-its both under the keyboard and smashed between the GPU and heatsink assembly. Does anyone think the accelerometer could be to blame? As it would appear from the R52 hardware manual, the accelerometer is almost next to the GPU. The APS system was my first suspect nonetheless because of the jostling, that somehow it was either fried or the G-sensor needed a reset.

p.s. - I had taken it to a shop a few weeks ago who took a week to tell me I had viruses. I would probably say non-IBM/Lenovo specific shops have no clue what's going on here.

jarrody2k · #128 Post by **jarrody2k** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:32 pm

I live in metropolitan brisbane and my T40 just karked it! I have used layers of masking tape to try and keep the chip seated, but right now my laptop is struggling to make 5 minutes. (Though much better than the 5 seconds it used to peak at)

If anyone has the tools to perform this reflowing miracle in Australia, I would be willing to pay a little money if I get a good result. Anyone out there?

Jarrod.

jarrody2k · #129 Post by **jarrody2k** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:16 pm

Has anyone actually called a registered repairer and mentioned the ECA with a positive response? I would be glad to know.

Jarrod

ohnchoe · #130 Post by **ohnchoe** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:24 pm

I tried the post-it fix and it works sporadically - stayed on for three or four hours one time, another time is lasts for all of 3 minutes.

Has anyone in the NYC area been able to do the more permanent fix (embossing gun, heat reflow)? If so, would you like to practice on my thinkpad?

JNavas · #131 Post by **JNavas** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:36 am

I've now also been bitten by this problem. My personal T41 suddenly started exhibiting classic symptoms of black screen lockup when the chassis was flexed, and got more severe rapidly. Worse, Lenovo refused to fix the problem under my extended warranty, claiming the failure was caused by moisture damage.

I've disputed that assessment, starting a "process" of up to three days during which my T41 is being held hostage unrepaired, which has forced me to also pursue other remedies. Thus far have written to Bill Amelio, and filed a failure to honor warranty complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Today I plan to look into filing a complaint with my state Attorney General.

This is by far the worst warranty experience I've ever had with IBM/Lenovo, with long delays and rude treatment, and if it's not straightened out quickly, it will be hard for me to specify ThinkPad's for my clients in the future. Very sad.

For more details, see my Usenet thread.

JNavas · #132 Post by **JNavas** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:55 pm

Here's some of the "proof" of out-of-warranty "moisture damage":
http://i12.tinypic.com/2i0viic.jpg
Judge for yourself.

#133 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:05 pm

JNavas, it does look like some ever so slight corrosion or "something" is on the board. I'm on your side in this, as it seems to be somewhat of a SOP with solectron now, what do you think that is there on the board, it could possibly be impurities that have been there since the manufacturing process, humidity build up inside the machine. Sweat from someones hands that put the machine together in my mind are all possibilites, Chemical reaction to the materials used to make the board that over time have corroded?

I'm just curious what you think it is.

JNavas · #134 Post by **JNavas** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:43 pm

It could be any of those things. What it doesn't look like is claimed moisture damage. Regardless, it's probably of no consequence -- there's no evidence that any real testing was actually performed. I think it's pretty clear this was just a bad faith excuse not to repair the machine under warranty.

frankie66 · #135 Post by **frankie66** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:10 pm

My eraser solution is still working but I'm bit sad. I thought I had a really great laptop, build quality, style etc, now I'm just ashamed of it: I'm scared to use it on my lap in case the MB flexes, I can't sell it to anyone knowing what I know, I can't fix it cos the MB is too expensive, I'm just stuck with it. My whole computing life I've only owned Thinkpads (home and work), the T4x series should have be one of the best laptops ever created, instead they are all time-bombs, ticking away, ready to break after the 3 year warrranty period.

I also think those who are lucky enough to get new MBs now will have the same problem 3 years down the road, the machine may be called a laptop but that MB is simply not designed to be flexible and using it on top of your lap will kill it.

JNavas · #136 Post by **JNavas** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:44 pm

frankie66 wrote:My eraser solution is still working but I'm bit sad. I thought I had a really great laptop, build quality, style etc, now I'm just ashamed of it: I'm scared to use it on my lap in case the MB flexes, I can't sell it to anyone knowing what I know, I can't fix it cos the MB is too expensive, I'm just stuck with it.

I've seen guaranteed-to-work replacement T4x system boards on eBay for as little as $150. (The upper end of the price range is $370 from ACS, with eBay Buy It Now in the middle at about $260.) You may want to check for yourself.

My whole computing life I've only owned Thinkpads (home and work), the T4x series should have be one of the best laptops ever created, instead they are all time-bombs, ticking away, ready to break after the 3 year warrranty period.

It is indeed sad, an unfortunate manufacturing problem compounded by the sale of the division to Lenovo.

I also think those who are lucky enough to get new MBs now will have the same problem 3 years down the road, the machine may be called a laptop but that MB is simply not designed to be flexible and using it on top of your lap will kill it.

Perhaps not. I've heard that the problem was eliminated by switching suppliers for the system board. The trick is figuring out how to get the updated system board, instead of another lemon.

JHEM · #137 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:14 am

Any new info from customer relations WRT your machine John?

James

JHEM · #138 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:18 am

skunkwerkz wrote:Engineering Change Announcement ask an authorized servicer

Do you have an ECA number?

AFAIK there's been no ECA announced for the T4X series GPU/MB problem akin to the one for the T30 series memory slot problem.

I'd love to be wrong about that, please advise.

James

tai0088 · #139 Post by **tai0088** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:34 am

Had exactly the same experience with a T41 last month. Machine became increasingly unreliable and ultimately un-useable.

Finally backed it up and took it into the service centre to find out the warranty had expired 5 days earlier.

Despite some lengthy discussions in the office and by e-mail they refused outright to replace the motherboard.

I was just about to resign myself to buying a new machine but I started to think that the dialog was a bit too scripted, like they had been through this before. After a bit of research I came across this forum and, suprise suprise, this was a popular post?

After another e-mail pointing out that IBM were very aware of the problem and linking to this thread I have a new motherboard.

So thanks for the assistance and here's to community power!

I bought into the rugged workhorse spiel, love the keyboard and general performance but paid a premium for the T41 when it first came out so was seriously un-impressed with the treatment

I'm in a quandry, I have bought four of the T4X series over the years, two for myself and two for clients. Two have had problems and all are heading for end of warranty but not end of life.

I'm looking to upgrade in the next 6 months as some of the graphics apps I have just run too slow these days. 3 months ago I would have been straight in to the IBM store but now having spent sometime browsing here and having a poor experience, I'm not so sure. I looked around and felt the other options were very plasticy and flimsy. Is IBM the best or just the least worst option?

This probably isn't the correct thread to continue this discussion but I would be grateful for any pointers to a non partisan thread.

JNavas · #140 Post by **JNavas** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:09 am

JHEM wrote:Any new info from customer relations WRT your machine John?James

Lenovo Executive Relations (which presumably got involved as a result of my faxed letter to CEO Bill Amelio) took over my warranty case, but not before Customer Service had put my machine back together and shipped it back to me (unrepaired). So as soon as it arrived (last Fri), I had to slap on an emailed shipping label, turn it around unopened, and send it to Executive Relations. Only time will tell if it will do any good. It's now 11 days and counting since this saga started.

JNavas · #141 Post by **JNavas** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:22 am

tai0088 wrote:I'm looking to upgrade in the next 6 months as some of the graphics apps I have just run too slow these days. 3 months ago I would have been straight in to the IBM store but now having spent sometime browsing here and having a poor experience, I'm not so sure. I looked around and felt the other options were very plasticy and flimsy. Is IBM the best or just the least worst option?

My own thinking on this:

A big part of the problem is massive consolidation in notebook/laptop computers as a result of falling prices and razor thin margins. Now the great majority of these computers are built by a very few contract manufacturers, with similar quality, and the only things that really differentiates them are (a) particular configurations and (b) service and support policies.

ThinkPad used to be a leader in design, but that lead has now largely evaporated, and the basic concept, while still sound, is getting a bit long in the tooth. ThinkPad also used to be known for stellar service and support, but that's now (not surprisingly) changed for the worse as a result of the acquisition by Lenovo, which is struggling to make the acquisition pay off, and perhaps by the Dell background of CEO Bill Amelio.

Even if my own saga turns out well in the end, my perspective on ThinkPad computers has been fundamentally changed, and, like you, I would now have to carefully evaluate other options.

coreman · #142 Post by **coreman** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:02 am

I am typing this response on my 2003 T30 since my T41 just bit the dust while on a business trip halfway around the world. All the same symptoms of this thread...LCD shuts off with slightest movement of PC, especially after it warmed up a bit.

However I still have (4) months to go on this warranty so I didn't attempt any repairs, temporary or otherwise. I also have a problem with the USB throttling down to 1.1, which many people have claimed was fixed with new motherboard.

So I'll just wait and see how they fix my machine...

As for the questions on the quality of the Thinkpads, this T30 is built solid as a rock, with a much better keyboard than T41, and doesn't flex, but it is a lot thicker and heavier.

It is equally true that profit margins are slim with the notebook makers so there are substantial pricing pressures however there are certainly much better designs out there right now than the T4XX series.

The only reason I bought the Thinkpad was for the keyboard but even that is falling down in quality in the new designs...there are faster, cheaper, better built notebooks out there...Lenovo is going to have it's hands full trying to grow their share or even maintain it...

frankie66 · #143 Post by **frankie66** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:47 am

John Navas wrote:
Perhaps not. I've heard that the problem was eliminated by switching suppliers for the system board. The trick is figuring out how to get the updated system board, instead of another lemon.

Does anyone know how to do this check? Is there a manufacturer code/identifier on the system board somewhere? Can you tell from the manufacture date?

With new laptops so cheap paying for a system board that is technologically 4 years old is a really hard call. If I ever decide to go down that road I want to be sure I'm not buying another dud.

dmdsoftware · #144 Post by **dmdsoftware** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:28 am

Probably not your problem, but I had an issue with my T42 once. When I randomly moved the Thinkpad, it would power off. I would have to pull the AC plug and battery out and plug them back in to turn it back on. Turned out to be a faulty AC adapter (so obviously, it only happened while I was running off AC).

JNavas · #145 Post by **JNavas** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:42 pm

JHEM wrote:Any new info from customer relations WRT your machine John?

Just got my T41 back, repaired under warranty, apparently thanks to my faxed letter to the CEO of Lenovo. New system board, new CPU, and new base cover. I think that's probably overkill, but I'm just glad to get it back, repaired under warranty.

nutjobox · #146 Post by **nutjobox** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:04 pm

its sad you have to climb the rungs but i too have had great success when writing letters to upper management, verizon in my case. (verizon is a stand-up company! they will give refunds outside of contract terms!)

and yes, i can confirm that thinkpad flexing is BAD. i never thought i flexed mine, but the wifi starting going in and out, and to get it back in i had to physically flex the entire laptop on purpose, then it would light up but cause errors so out it came and that was that. im also beginning to have boot problems

i think eventually this laptop will be turned into a stationary HTPC.

Kidane · #147 Post by **Kidane** » Wed May 30, 2007 1:12 am

I'm wondering if anybody has had any long-term luck with the DIY reflow of the graphics chip.

I ask because I picked up a "dead" T42 off Ebay for $150 to replace my T30 with a cracked display. It didn't come with a hard drive, RAM, or CDROM but I had them all lying around so I figured, "why not?"

Sure enough, I get the laptop and it won't boot. I saw this thread, put my thumb on the ATI chip, and it booted up. However, it's really finicky and won't stay running with the post-it trick, so I bought a heat gun and went to town. Now it boots up and will stay running, but I don't want to use it until my long fan assembly arrives, as I suspect the problem could be exacerbated by heat. I noticed that the problem occurs more frequently when the case is closed and the keyboard installed.

Hopefully I fixed it but I'm wondering if anybody else here has experience one way or the other with this solution.

#148 Post by **underclocker** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:59 am

The good news is if you can't get it working or replaced under warranty, someone will buy it.

I recently sold a T41 systemboard (ATI 9000 w/32MB RAM) including the base cover with this problem disclosed for $120 on eBay.

What on Earth will that person do with a flakey systemboard? One man's trash is another's treasure...

frankie66 · #149 Post by **frankie66** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:09 pm

What on Earth will that person do with a flakey systemboard? One man's trash is another's treasure...

I think there is a whole world of IBM system engineers that we know nothing about... they know how to send boards back to factories and get them refurbished etc etc. All the stuff we speculate about on these forums is well known and they probably laugh at our attempts to fix these things ourselves.

I have seen several eBay T4xs on sale now with this bug and get the feeling that there are going to be loads more coming. And yes someone is buying them.....

Kidane · #150 Post by **Kidane** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:40 am

Going on 3 days of use now with my ghetto solder reflowing job... it's working without a hitch but of course I'm still nervous. Although, it seems it's possible to fix this issue, at least temporarily. I'll keep you guys posted.

T42 shuts down when i move it

ECA?

ECA

The R-series seems afflicted too...

Looking for Australian with the tools and know-how

The ECA

t41p as well...

"Proof" of out-of-warranty "moisture damage&q

Re: ECA

T42 Shuts down when I move it

Update

Re: T42 Shuts down when I move it

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