T42 shuts down when i move it

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Amigo-2k · #61 Post by **Amigo-2k** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:58 pm

underclocker wrote:
Maybe there is a way to repair these boards?

There are a couple of these boards (with the graphics issues) on ebay right now. The current bid on one is like 85 bucks. If you are bidding then I would hope you know how to fix them...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0064430370

Moderator edit: Shortened URL to prevent left-right scrolling

#62 Post by **underclocker** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:16 pm

I'm personnally not bidding, but it's good to see that some people are interested. Perhaps they know how to fix the issue? At least there is hope...

erasmus · #63 Post by **erasmus** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:54 pm

Hi, so far it still works.

Amigo - It does not have to be an aluminum profile. It was just what came in handy when I was looking at it.

You just need something with the of hight of 6-7 mm. (e.g. a cut piece of cork) and pieces of paper (post-it stickers) to adjust for the right trade off between pressure and the keyboard not sitting correctly.

I found out that my GPU is loose in the upper right corner. I think the GPU coming loose is from the mainboard flexing. Its placed on the most central spot - and hottest running chip.

When I get my new mainboard that I ordered on eBay I will make some more testing on how to solder the GPU back on.

Amigo-2k · #64 Post by **Amigo-2k** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:58 pm

So far so good. Post-it notes are in and I've been surfing around reading up on the fan control utility for an hour now and it has yet to die on me.

I have pick it up and gave it a shake and I have no issues.

teisole · #65 Post by **teisole** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:16 am

yeah erasmus, it seems you hit the jackpot here. as you mentioned above, i have a radeon 9600 covered by the heat sink (long fan?):

i simply unscrewed the heat sink and put in approx a 0.5mm thick layer of aluminium (here a few layers of aluminium wrapper bought in the supermarket works fine), re-attached the heat sink and tighten the screws. furthermore it seems to be the upper-right corner causing troubles here as well!

so far it works here, too!

just to comment on your previous post:

You just need something with the of hight of 6-7 mm. (e.g. a cut piece of cork) and pieces of paper (post-it stickers) to adjust for the right trade off between pressure and the keyboard not sitting correctly.

i dont think it is a good idea to use cork, since it is a very poor heat conductor. im a bit afraid that you'll get problems with the GPU overheating using this material. better to find some aluminium, copper or just steel. im sure you can find some if you go to a machine shop and ask them kindly.

or - maybe even simpler - get an old desktop pc and take it apart and use some of the cooling profiles in there.

vlyne · #66 Post by **vlyne** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:54 am

I've got my troublesome R40 going again by cannablising a bit of aluminium from an old 486 Thinkpad and wedging it between the existing cover and the ATI chip. Thanks for the lateral thinking erasmus! So far so good but somehow I still feel this is a manufacturing defect that IBM should rectify.
Cheers

own6volvos · #67 Post by **own6volvos** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:22 am

One thing to consider with the ball socket devices is that sometimes a few DIY tricks can fix broken solder areas. For example, the xbox (1st ones) have a soldered on processor that a few have been able to upgrade themselves using a hairdryer or heat gun to unsolder the cpu. Not sure how they attached the new one, but some have upgraded. My point though is if the board is already messed up, perhaps a quick heat to varying time cycles could help a cold solder joint? Dont heat it enough to unsolder the thing, but enough to melt the solder just a bit.

For example:

Heat for 5-10 seconds with direct heat, let cool and boot computer. Wiggle the thing around and see if it first even works still, and then if it crashes.

Heat for 10-15 seconds... etc etc

Heat for 15-20 seconds... etc etc

Doing this in slightly increasing durations will hopefully fix it before it makes the GPU fall off. You just dont want to do this too many times and fry the GPU from excessive heat though.

If you are up for this, I believe the common thing is to get layers of tin foil covering everything except your target. This prevents heat from getting at all the other items.

dghahn · #68 Post by **dghahn** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:19 am

underclocker wrote:I'm wondering if the GPU coming loose is actually from chassis flexing or is it just a defect from a poor GPU to planar connection?

After trying to find a solution to this for the past three months I know this issue is fairly common. In my case I know exactly when it started. I was carrying my laptop in my left hand, holding the front left corner, and the board flexed and I heard a soft "pop". From that point forward I had nothing but trouble.

With the help fo erasmus, and some post-it notes it has now been running for the past five days with no problems.

#69 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:44 am

If someone wants to practice on another unit, I have one for sale with the GPU probelm - works fine with pressure - $75 including the entire bottom of the unit.

In the thinkpads.com marketplace...

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=35440

secret · #70 Post by **secret** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:25 pm

Is it possible for someone to post a picture showing how they used the metal and post-its to apply pressure to the GPU? I would like to give it a shot but don't want to mess it up.

Thanks in advanced.

Amigo-2k · #71 Post by **Amigo-2k** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:39 am

I'm just using post-its. I stacked a bunch on then replaced the screws. The first time I had to many and the left mouse button and space back was pushed up and were not functional. I took off about 10 post-its and then screwed it back together and now it is fine.

I did find a small chip cooling thing at CompUSA (it was a kit for 12 bucks with two chip cooling blocks and a small fan). I was thinking of purchasing it and trying it out if the heat was an issue. Since I installed the TPfanControll program the chip stays at about 40-45 (I have the fan on a speed 2 when it hits 40).

Still all well here.

secret · #72 Post by **secret** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:50 am

Ok, so what I do is place post-it paper on the underside of the keyboard so it pushes down on the motherboard/GPU? Ok, this won't cause any fires inside will it? Because we're dealing with paper here when we use post-it's.

Also the GPU is the ATi black unit on the board isn't it?

Sorry about the questions, only fairly new to computers (internal workings).

Thanks in advanced.

erasmus · #73 Post by **erasmus** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:43 am

Good to hear that the sticker-trick helped you out

secret:

Its not complicated at all - just remove the keyboard and place the stickers on the GPU (yes, the one that says ATI - right under the middle TrackPoint button)

If you have too many the keyboard will not fit - adjust by remove some stickers to get the right pressure.

Pay a little attention to keep free of the TrackPoint circuit board under the keyboard.

I think a stack measuring 4x4 cm. will fit right in.

~

Amigo-2k · #74 Post by **Amigo-2k** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:03 pm

just an fyi:
Google:
Paper has an ignition temperature of approximately 232 degrees Celsius

christopher_wolf · #75 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:29 pm

Amigo-2k wrote:just an fyi:
Google:
Paper has an ignition temperature of approximately 232 degrees Celsius

Or around 451° Fahrenheit, like the book.

Although I can think of quite a few subsystems that would roast themselves before the whole thing got up to that temperature.

Amigo-2k · #76 Post by **Amigo-2k** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:11 pm

One more with the same issue. A buddy of mine who bought his T42 the same month I bought mine just started to have the same issues I have last week.

Recall anyone?

secret · #77 Post by **secret** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:11 am

I appreciate the information.

I opened my T40 and did what one of you said; connect the keyboard and push slightly on the GPU - I did this and the screen still failed to come one. So I placed pressure on the square green thing right next to the CPU and that is where my problem is; if I place pressure on this, the machine's screen starts everytime.

I am attempting to make a spring loaded mechanism in which it will be connected to an area of the CD-ROM cage and and area of the fan. The mechanism will have a solid chunk of rubber within the middle and when attached it will press down on the green unit due to the tension the spring produces.

Lolz, wish me luck.

secret · #78 Post by **secret** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:20 am

Amigo-2k wrote:One more with the same issue. A buddy of mine who bought his T42 the same month I bought mine just started to have the same issues I have last week.

Recall anyone?

Yes, I say we all complain at the same time - it should get their attention.

rayman · #79 Post by **rayman** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:01 am

i've got the extended cooler on my t42 and i just put some little velcro pads down, seems to work if i screw down the motherboard completely, although one of the screws (the one just left of the ati card) wont screw in fully now..ah well. this sure beats the hell out of it freezing every 5 minutes

jjames55 · #80 Post by **jjames55** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:59 am

At least in Denmark they (ibm/lenovo) are aware of the problem with the graphics chips comming loose, and have been quoted in the media saying they are trying to find a solution - also for the machines out of warranty - (most t4x in denmark have been sold with 3 year carry-in warranty).
Biggest problem is the turn around time for warranty repair is over 3 weeks because of the lack of new systemboards - the have had to produce new boards to meet the demand(!)...

danage · #81 Post by **danage** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:50 pm

OH NO!!! please no!!! i sent mine in today! to the german repair center tho, let's hope they still have boards...

#82 Post by **K. Eng** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:27 pm

jjames55 wrote:At least in Denmark they (ibm/lenovo) are aware of the problem with the graphics chips comming loose, and have been quoted in the media saying they are trying to find a solution - also for the machines out of warranty - (most t4x in denmark have been sold with 3 year carry-in warranty).
Biggest problem is the turn around time for warranty repair is over 3 weeks because of the lack of new systemboards - the have had to produce new boards to meet the demand(!)...

Can you give us a link to an article or other news source? My T40 had a total of 3 system board failures in 3 years, and I believe the video chip was the problem each time.

Amigo-2k · #83 Post by **Amigo-2k** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:50 pm

So a used motherboard is on its way for me. My post it note fix works pretty well. Typically after +10 hours it like to pop off.

So the question is: once I install the new used motherboard, and assuming all is well, do I sell the laptop on ebay knowing that it will happen again and again? what would you do?

jjames55 · #84 Post by **jjames55** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:25 am

K. Eng wrote:
jjames55 wrote:At least in Denmark they (ibm/lenovo) are aware of the problem with the graphics chips comming loose, and have been quoted in the media saying they are trying to find a solution - also for the machines out of warranty - (most t4x in denmark have been sold with 3 year carry-in warranty).
Biggest problem is the turn around time for warranty repair is over 3 weeks because of the lack of new systemboards - the have had to produce new boards to meet the demand(!)...
Can you give us a link to an article or other news source? My T40 had a total of 3 system board failures in 3 years, and I believe the video chip was the problem each time.

Ok here's a link i found (in danish) http://musiknu.dk/shownews.php?id=61387

A quick translation below (excuse the grammar). it sums up to if lenovo puts their money where their mouth is we at least have no problem here in denmark

Best Regards,
Jesper James

---

Topic: If you hold your thinkpad in one hand you risk it going to the shop for several weeks

"There is a tension building in the casing when you hold your thinkpad in one hand that makes the graphics chip risk to go loose from the main board" Says product manager Rene Vinord from Lenovo Nordic .

The two models T40 and T41 are not for sale any more, but a lot of them are covered by the up to three years warranty from the time of sale. The owners so unlucky to not be covered by warranty anymore, can by contacting Lenovo get a destroyed machine reparied without further cost.

"What we are working on now, is a solution to how we can introduce some sort of coverage for this problem in the future" says Rene Vinord from Lenovo about the customers that risk to have a black screen in a couple of years when the last warranties expire. Lenovo does already offer free servicing to the customers that have sufferd from the 'one-hand' black screen.

When the graphics chip come loose the connection to the screen goes. But there is now a waiting time of about three weeks to get parts home for the broken thinkpads. As it is former models, the parts stock is not so great. The system boards needs to be produced again to counter the eventual further reclamations.

How many thinkpads we are talking about, technical chief Rene Vinord does not know, but says:

"We have maybe five calls a week in denmark about this issue", it is a problem for the customer but he reckons the problem will lessen (we are about 6mil people in DK)

Fewer system boards will risk to fail as they are replaced. Lenovo says to counter problems in the future the producer of the boards has been changed.

----

BerniG · #85 Post by **BerniG** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:00 am

The news you linked is from April 2006 or do I see that wrong? Because on the top of the page there is

af Comon.dk, d. 28-04-2006 15:22

jjames55 · #86 Post by **jjames55** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:22 am

BerniG wrote:The news you linked is from April 2006 or do I see that wrong? Because on the top of the page there is
af Comon.dk, d. 28-04-2006 15:22

Yes it seems that way - but i shouldn't think that makes it less relevant??? unless of cause they have changed their minds later on, but i have seen or heard nothing to that effect...

regards,
jesper james

vlyne · #87 Post by **vlyne** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:36 am

I don't get it. Why would Lenovo Nordic be allowed to take the initiative and offer to replace defective machines in Denmark while the rest of us have to live with what is a universal problem? I'm no lawyer but the action by Lenovo Nordic is clearly sufficient grounds for a class action if a global recall isn't forthcoming.

This issue is going to be a major headache for IBM/Lenovo. I for one wouldn't be satisfied if the chip was simply resoldered as part of the cause is the flex in the board. Solving this latter issue will require strengthening the casing against flex. At the end of the day IBM/Lenovo would have to weigh the options of what to do but I don't see remanufacturing of the boards as a viable economic option, especially if it doesn't fix the flexing issue.

Meanwhile those of you with post-it notes in your notebook are stuck with a moral dilemna (in selling your notebook) which rightfully belongs in the IBM/Lenovo camp. Imagine if your bought a laptop and found post-it notes holding down a chip! I can't imagine any company willing to suffer the embarrasment of their probuct being held together by post-it notes!

Let's hope there is some good news in the New Year.

Cheers

BerniG · #88 Post by **BerniG** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:45 am

jjames55 wrote:Yes it seems that way - but i shouldn't think that makes it less relevant??? unless of cause they have changed their minds later on, but i have seen or heard nothing to that effect...

I just meant because of this:

jjames55 wrote:Biggest problem is the turn around time for warranty repair is over 3 weeks because of the lack of new systemboards - the have had to produce new boards to meet the demand(!)...

As this article is quite old, the boards should already be produced and there should be no waiting times of 3 weeks...
I just sent mine in because of the same problem - I hope that I get one of these "newer" mainboards which have this problem fixed according to your article.

#89 Post by **K. Eng** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:48 pm

Son of a gun I *knew* there was something funny with the T4x boards.

Great quality control...

stuckj · #90 Post by **stuckj** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:01 pm

I seem to be having a similar problem with my A31. It's about 4.5 years old. Replaced the mainboard last year as the graphics chip died (along with a host of other power-related problems). Now the graphics are on the fritz again. I disassembled it and noticed that flexing the board slightly around the GPU temporarily fixes the graphics.

There are a few DIY solutions I've found on the web for attempting to reflow the solder on the BGA. I was gonna try it out as I've got a new laptop coming in the mail tomorrow anyway...

-Johnny

T42 shuts down when i move it

Same with the A31?

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