Best mouse for T series.

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Daniel · #1 Post by **Daniel** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:09 pm

Well.. My Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 just died on me. It died a long slow death, working intermittantly, and now not at all.

I'm looking for new one to replace it. I was wondering if you guys use corded or cordless mice? I was really looking into the Logitech MX1000 but I heard that it isn't great for the occasional game because of the .5 second lag from standby to active. Also, I use my Thinkpad on the couch, bed, etc. It'd be awkward having to move the wireless base along with the Thinkpad. Would you guys still use the cordless? What's your favorite mouse? The only reason I use a mouse is for the occasional game. I wish they just made a corded MX1000.

Daniel · #2 Post by **Daniel** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:12 pm

Oh, what about Bluetooth mice? How's the response on those?

benz · #3 Post by **benz** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:11 pm

I think if you can live with using the trackpad/touchpoint when away from your desk, you will be fine with a basic corded mouse. I usually only play games when im at home at my desk, since I can plug in my massive speakers and the AC adapter to run it full speed. And so I may as well have a corded mouse....besides, theyre cheaper.

I have the Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical, and its a great mouse, no lag, very accurate, great fit for my big hands. And you can't beat the prices on them these days - they go for about $10-$15 most places. If you want to go a little higher, the Logitech MX700 and 900 (and that new laser-mouse, I've never tried it though) are great mice, but to me a little heavy.

On a side note - does anyone know where I can get some kind of felt mouse feet? I use my mouse on a wood desk, and at the end of each day the mouse has become 'sticky' from collecting up dust on the PTFE feet. I think it would actually be smoother on such a slick surface with some kind of fabric or felt surface instead of that plastic. I think the PTFE feet were originally made for the mousepad surface, and thats what they work the best on. However, in this day and age of optical mice, theres no need for a mousepad anymore, so if you're only going to be on hard, slick surfaces, something with a soft texture would probably do better. OK thats the end of my rant, sorry to hijack your thread!

Daniel · #4 Post by **Daniel** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:53 pm

No idea about the felt feet but if you want more PTFE for your mouse, you can get it here. http://www.cshyde.com/Excess%20Inv%20Sale.htm

awolfe63 · #5 Post by **awolfe63** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:40 pm

I have a Targus optical micro mouse that is great. Works perfectly and cord retracts.

Plinkerton · #6 Post by **Plinkerton** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:45 pm

I think this one is pretty darn cool for a notebook.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... 1c3grabb3r

Daniel · #7 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:24 am

Any mobile mice with the back and forward buttons?

The MX510 is starting to look good...

liquid_sonata · #8 Post by **liquid_sonata** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:26 am

i have a logitech notebook pro mouse. it's really small. if you look for reviews, some of them criticize it just because of this. however i find it much easier to use than my desktop mouse (which is a logitech dual optical mouseman). eh...i have way more control over it. i only have to use my fingers to move it around instead of my entire wrist/arm because of its size. plus it's so easy to pack and go. also, it looks sexy imo. the cord length is perfect for my t42p.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/produ ... ENTID=8142[/i]

p. s. - it has a really cool feature as well: the cord tucks away into this little groove at the bottom, and the usb plug covers and protects the motion laser. there will be no messy cords in your bag with this mouse.

ZPrime · #9 Post by **ZPrime** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:46 am

Here's my saga on bluetooth mice, focusing on ones that are actually full-featured (have more than just two buttons, etc).

if you've got bluetooth in the laptop, it's definately the "way to go," but nobody makes a mouse yet that is perfect. Kensington just put out a normal-sized 3 button bluetooth one, and it even has a power switch (of sorts - hold the connect button and press the mouse wheel in to shut it off), but no thumb buttons yet.

i'm still using the MX900 now - it's ok, it would be perfect if it had a power switch and functional drivers though.

Daniel · #10 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:05 am

Hey ZPrime, it looks like you went through exactly what I'm about to go through. I even had the Intellimouse Explorer 3.0. Out of the Bluetooth mice you've used, how was the response in each of them? Was it suitable or was there a slight lag, even with the fastest one? Your review is swaying me towards the 900. What's wrong with the drivers?

matyst · #11 Post by **matyst** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:35 am

If you don't mind a corded mouse, this one is great and it's IBM
http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... &storeId=1

ZPrime · #12 Post by **ZPrime** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:16 am

Daniel wrote:Hey ZPrime, it looks like you went through exactly what I'm about to go through. I even had the Intellimouse Explorer 3.0. Out of the Bluetooth mice you've used, how was the response in each of them? Was it suitable or was there a slight lag, even with the fastest one? Your review is swaying me towards the 900. What's wrong with the drivers?

The worst "lag" was in the Microsoft, although I think it was simply a lack of sensitivity. It just felt "slow" to me. The belkin was OK, but it felt "jumpy." Of the three, the Logitech has the best feel.

Read the entire thread and you'll see what's wrong with the drivers. They won't work properly with the builtin bluetooth on the thinkpad, unless you use the original driver release (1.02). The original release is missing some button assignments though, and as such the thumb buttons on the mouse won't work in a non-IE browser (firefox, Maxthon, anything that isn't "true" IE).

The newer driver revisions have more button settings... but they won't work with the built-in bluetooth.

Logitech is stupid.

Humpa · #13 Post by **Humpa** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:04 am

ZPrime wrote:Read the entire thread and you'll see what's wrong with the drivers. They won't work properly with the builtin bluetooth on the thinkpad, unless you use the original driver release (1.02). The original release is missing some button assignments though, and as such the thumb buttons on the mouse won't work in a non-IE browser (firefox, Maxthon, anything that isn't "true" IE).

The newer driver revisions have more button settings... but they won't work with the built-in bluetooth.

Logitech is stupid.

I'm using the MX900 with the 2.11 Logitech drivers, but I don't have Setpoint installed. The back/forward and pageup/pagedown mouse buttons work fine in Firefox and IE. It seems that Setpoint does absolutely nothing if you are not using the dongle, so I unistalled it (but saved the drivers only). I have no way to reconfigure the MX900 buttons, though.

You don't mention this in the other thread, but above you said "The newer driver revisions have more button settings". I'm not quite sure what you mean. I thought you were only able to reconfigure the MX900 buttons when using the MS drivers?
I think I'll go and get the MS drivers and see how they work.

ZPrime · #14 Post by **ZPrime** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:03 am

Humpa wrote:
ZPrime wrote:Read the entire thread and you'll see what's wrong with the drivers. They won't work properly with the builtin bluetooth on the thinkpad, unless you use the original driver release (1.02). The original release is missing some button assignments though, and as such the thumb buttons on the mouse won't work in a non-IE browser (firefox, Maxthon, anything that isn't "true" IE).

The newer driver revisions have more button settings... but they won't work with the built-in bluetooth.

Logitech is stupid.
I'm using the MX900 with the 2.11 Logitech drivers, but I don't have Setpoint installed.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Your mouse properties dialog displays "Logitech" as the manufacturer, and driver version "2.11," but you don't have Setpoint on there?

I don't see what you have to gain from this, other than the mouse being called an MX900 in device manager (instead of "HID Input device"). Without setpoint you can't configure Logitech's alternative speed/sensitivity options, so there's really no point to having the other "drivers" except appearance.

The back/forward and pageup/pagedown mouse buttons work fine in Firefox and IE. It seems that Setpoint does absolutely nothing if you are not using the dongle, so I unistalled it (but saved the drivers only). I have no way to reconfigure the MX900 buttons, though.

I'm not sure how you managed to just "save" the drivers only. *shrug* It doesn't surprise me that the buttons would all work as normal though - Windows default settings will see "button 4" and give it "back," and button 5 = forward.

You don't mention this in the other thread, but above you said "The newer driver revisions have more button settings". I'm not quite sure what you mean. I thought you were only able to reconfigure the MX900 buttons when using the MS drivers?

I've used Setpoint 2.11 with an MX1000 on a different machine. One of the "bugs" in setpoint is that Logitech's version of "back" and "forward" are different from "mouse 4" and "mouse 5." Windows, IE, and basically any web browser software will see "mouse 4" and assume "back." Setpoint doesn't do that though, it sends some browser-specific code that only seems to work right with IE and Windows, not with Firefox, or many games. Setpoint 2.11 (and perhaps 1.05) fixed this by giving you the option to simply set the button back to "mouse 4" instead of forcing you to use their "interpretation" of "back."

I think I'll go and get the MS drivers and see how they work.

They'll work just like having no drivers installed, except you *will* be able to remap the thumb buttons. Mouse motion is unchanged, but because the drivers will hook into mouse4 and mouse5, it can remap them to a keystroke for you if you so desire. You can't remap the quickscroll buttons (MS doesn't have any mice that sport them) and the "quick switch" button won't work either (nor can it be remapped).

I'm hoping that logitech will just remove the setting in Setpoint that says "refuse to operate without the Logitech base." It's obviously something they modified, because Setpoint 1.02 works without the base. It's just that 1.02 is old and missing functionality/features that have been added to 2.11.

The other reason I want to use setpoint is that it offers you greater control over the mouse speed. Logitech's drivers have always given you a slider for speed and radio buttons for acceleration, which lets you fine tune the mouse a lot more. The old Mouseware also gave you an option to disable accel in games - I'm hoping this gets added to Setpoint.

Setpoint has an annoying habit of RESETTING your speed configuration in the Windows Mouse control panel. They do this because the Setpoint speed settings "assume" that windows has left all the settings at default - the two speed modifiers work in concert with each other rather than being separate entities. Setpoint resets the windows settings because it is a rude and stupid app (just like almost everything Logitech puts out). Thankfully there is a registry key to stop this behavior. It will change how setpoint acts though - while you once may have preferred the slider near the right side and middle accel, if you change the Windows controls for the mouse (I keep mine at full speed so the touchpad is less painful on 1600x1200) the setpoint controls will be more "sensitive." this can be annoying, but much less so than having to reset your mouse control panel all the time because setpoint has mucked with it. with the registry value changed, once you get both speeds tweaked the way you like, there's no need to touch either one ever again.

Daniel · #15 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:14 am

I like that IBM mouse but it doesn't seem like it has back-forward buttons.

Humpa, exactly what did you do to get the back-foward to work in IE and Firefox? I'm probably going to pick up the MX900 later today.. you guys got me on it. All I want is a responsive, accurate mouse with back and forward buttons. I don't care about the application switcher or custom buttons. Anything against the MX900 for my needs?

RoadHazard · #16 Post by **RoadHazard** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:34 am

matyst wrote:If you don't mind a corded mouse, this one is great and it's IBM
http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... &storeId=1

That's the mouse that I'm using right now and totally love it. It's fast, precise, and small. I'm used to forward-backword buttons on my MS Optical mouse too. But I can get away by using the ones on the Thinkpad keyboard.

Humpa · #17 Post by **Humpa** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:13 pm

ZPrime wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by this. Your mouse properties dialog displays "Logitech" as the manufacturer, and driver version "2.11," but you don't have Setpoint on there?

I don't see what you have to gain from this, other than the mouse being called an MX900 in device manager (instead of "HID Input device"). Without setpoint you can't configure Logitech's alternative speed/sensitivity options, so there's really no point to having the other "drivers" except appearance.

I'm not sure how you managed to just "save" the drivers only. *shrug* It doesn't surprise me that the buttons would all work as normal though - Windows default settings will see "button 4" and give it "back," and button 5 = forward.

ZPrime, thanks for your response.
I don't know what I have to gain by using just the MX900 drivers either.

I think the back/fwd pgup/pgdown worked from the get-go (I will go check now).
All I did was save the Drivers folder from the Setpoint Program Files before I uninstalled it. Then I Updated my driver and pointed it to that Drivers folder I had saved.
In my Mouse Properties > Hardware, I have the IBM Ultra Nav and the Logitech MX900 listed. What this all means, though, I am unsure (as you are aware).

Humpa · #18 Post by **Humpa** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:33 pm

Daniel wrote:Humpa, exactly what did you do to get the back-foward to work in IE and Firefox? I'm probably going to pick up the MX900 later today.. you guys got me on it. All I want is a responsive, accurate mouse with back and forward buttons. I don't care about the application switcher or custom buttons. Anything against the MX900 for my needs?

If you use the Bluetooth Wizard to find your MX900 and install the drivers, I believe the back/fwd and pgup/pgdown will work in IE and Firefox. If not, they work if you update them to the 2.11 drivers from the Setpoint version 2.11. Though, after reading Zprime's post, I don't know that this actually does anything.

Also, when I uninstall the drivers, those buttons still work in IE and Firefox - and in Mouse Properties > Hardware there is listed the IBM UltraNav and Unknown (with no driver listed for Unknown) ... I think ZPrime mentioned this, too, in that thread he linked to.

Daniel · #19 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:21 pm

Where are you guys buying the MX900 from? I've called about 5 retail stores and none of them have it.

Humpa · #20 Post by **Humpa** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:59 pm

Daniel wrote:Where are you guys buying the MX900 from? I've called about 5 retail stores and none of them have it.

I bought mine online, but compusa carrys them:
http://www.compusa.com/products/product ... &pfp=srch1

Are you in NC?
The Greensboro Superstore CompUSA has them.

Greensboro, NC 27407-4751 (336) 292-0310 30 Miles In-Stock

MadeInJapan · #21 Post by **MadeInJapan** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:18 pm

Mice which eats blue cheeze get blue tooth.... Old Chinese proverb.

[censored] expensive little blue tooth mice, eh? $100???

Daniel · #22 Post by **Daniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:45 pm

Thanks. I'll probably make the 30 minute drive down there this weekend. Kind of a pain though if I need to return it if it has problems.

hershey · #23 Post by **hershey** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:46 am

don't buy retail.

I got my MX700 for $31.50 including shipping off of ebay.

Be smart, and buy it off of a powerseller on ebay. You'll get the MX900 much cheaper.

The MX700, is gorgeous, great response, but like someone else mentioned, it's heavy.

ZPrime · #24 Post by **ZPrime** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:07 am

I finally got a reply back from Logitech support.

Logitech Support Wanker wrote: Response (Robert) 09/23/2004 09:27 AM
Dear ZPrime,

Thank you for your recent inquiry about your Logitech MX900 Bluetooth Optical Mouse.
Unfortunately at this time the MX900 mouse does not have full functionality available unless the Bluetooth hub is attached to the system. Please check our web site periodically for an update to this situation. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Also there is not a way to completely turn off the mouse short of removing the batteries.

Emphasis is mine. Looks like they may eventually fix Setpoint, which will make this mouse great.

I asked them if there was any secret way to power it off - the new Kensington BT mouse has a hidden power switch - hold connect and click the wheel button. I was hoping maybe they had something like that with the MX900.

When/if Kensington releases a 5-button Bluetooth mouse, I'll definately give it a try; i'll probably add my feelings to the Ars thread.

Humpa · #25 Post by **Humpa** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:27 am

Thanks for the update, ZPrime. Hopefully they will provide us with something sooner as opposed to later.

I was just reading a post of mine from the better way to remap your windows key thread. I noticed you were the reason I have my Windows key mapped to my CapsLock. Thanks for that, too.

Humpa wrote:I was using the registry to remap the right Alt to the Windows key, but I liked Zprime's CapsLock idea. So I remapped the Caps Lock to the Windows key instead.
I wanted access to the Caps Lock (rarely), so I remapped the right Alt to Caps Lock, and the Caps Lock On/Off overlay still works.

I also have a third party application that I'm happy with so far, but I don't always run it.
I have a Logitech Bluetooth mouse, and you can't use their utility to configure the buttons (unless you use their USB BT thing).
I dont think you can remap a mouse button in the registry, so I am using autohotkey to remap the middle scroll button to the Enter key.
autohotkey ( www.autohotkey.com ) is only supposed to use 1MB of ram, but you have to write a simple script for all your remapping (so, this might not be for everyone).
It is extremely flexible though - you can have hotkeys that do just about anything.

atlacatl · #26 Post by **atlacatl** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:39 am

If you are only using IE, this program is great: http://www.codeproject.com/atl/MouseGestures.asp.

You right click anywhere on the body of the page, hold the button, and gesture left for "go back" and right for "go forward."

You can't go wrong with it...And you only need 3 mouse buttons...

nsuperman86 · #27 Post by **nsuperman86** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:42 am

benz wrote:On a side note - does anyone know where I can get some kind of felt mouse feet? I use my mouse on a wood desk, and at the end of each day the mouse has become 'sticky' from collecting up dust on the PTFE feet. I think it would actually be smoother on such a slick surface with some kind of fabric or felt surface instead of that plastic.

I have heard of people using something like a teflon adhesive (tape) on the bottom of thier mice. The site looks a little shady but I have been on forums where lots and lots of people have bought from it and are very satisfied. Scroll down to the teflon skates, tape, or discs.

http://www.cshyde.com/Excess%20Inv%20Sale.htm

benz · #28 Post by **benz** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:51 pm

nsuperman86 wrote:
benz wrote:On a side note - does anyone know where I can get some kind of felt mouse feet? I use my mouse on a wood desk, and at the end of each day the mouse has become 'sticky' from collecting up dust on the PTFE feet. I think it would actually be smoother on such a slick surface with some kind of fabric or felt surface instead of that plastic.
I have heard of people using something like a teflon adhesive (tape) on the bottom of thier mice. The site looks a little shady but I have been on forums where lots and lots of people have bought from it and are very satisfied. Scroll down to the teflon skates, tape, or discs.

http://www.cshyde.com/Excess%20Inv%20Sale.htm

Yeah, I have read about Teflon tape for mouse feet too, but I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that that is what most mouse feet are in the first place (PTFE is Polytetrafluoroethylene, trade name Teflon). That's sure what they feel like. My problem with Teflon is that (and this could be entirely due to the fact that mine are a bit scratched up) on slick, hard surfaces, they actually tend to pick up MORE dirt than on soft/rough surfaces. My desk is clean, but small amounts of dust actually become caked on the feet - much the same way that old ball mice get all that grit on the rollers. That slick plastic (and like I said, I'm pretty sure its Teflon) seems to be very hydrophobic and thus it is more attracted to dirt/dust. I am studying polymer chemistry so I should know this stuff, but I'm gonna go look it up now and probably edit this post

rhema83 · #29 Post by **rhema83** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:56 pm

Logitech has a very nice Wireless Optical Mouse for Notebooks. That one has really great feel, comes with a thumb-drive sized receiver and a carrying case.

Personally I use a Logitech Wireless Click! mouse at my desk and it fits my hand really well. It has enough mass but is not too heavy. The buttons and scroll wheel feels very sturdy too. The receiver is a little big but you can easily tie up the wire with cable tie and let it hide behind something.

Best mouse for T series.

Best mouse for T series.

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