IBM ThinkPad T42 (2373CYU) - My firsthand impressions...

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JHEM · #61 Post by **JHEM** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:22 pm

Mofongo wrote:Is this correct? If so, I can live with that.

Yep, that's it. Run WINNT.EXE from the \i386 folder and everything else from their respective folders after XP finishes.

Regards,

James

Matt · #62 Post by **Matt** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:32 pm

That's gotta be the tech tip of the month...thanks!

#63 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:44 pm

pretty up to date last time i got a new R50p in feb..
SP1 i think..
i can look if you want a certain answer..

FWIW, from experience with M$ updates i would wait 6 months before applying one to your thinkpad..

critical security updates are different..
backup the system first..

Mofongo · #64 Post by **Mofongo** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:57 am

morrow wrote:last time i investigated a TP with no OS i was told IBM MUST sell a copy of XP with every cpu..

its not IBM, it is the greedy iron fist of M$..

Yes, that is true of many big distributors (Dell, Gateway, IBM, HP, etc). They get a better price on XP by agreeing to sell one with every system. It's not so much that I mind that as I do the packaging (or lack thereof) of the software. Truly, I should get a CD with Windows XP on it if I paid for it. I should also get CDs with all the other software (like WinDVD) that I have also paid for. But this is laziness on IBMs part.

The thing that bugs me about Microsoft is that frequently the copy of XP that I am forced to pay for when I buy the system will only work on that brand of system...it's tied to the BIOS so that it will only install on a system with correct BIOS. For example, if I buy and HP, the version of XP that comes with it will only work on certain HP computers and that's it. This is the way Microsoft protects against copyright infringement. However, this deprives my of my right to resell my copy of XP. I paid for it, I own it, I should be able to sell it!

Mofongo

#65 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:07 am

you are preaching to the choir, here..!

i do not like the M$ tactics..
nor do i like what i have heard is coming with the next version of windoze..

i sure hope linux has matured because i will not buy M$ unless i am forced to do so..

#66 Post by **JaneL** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:08 am

>I should also get CDs with all the other software (like WinDVD) that I have also paid for. But this is laziness on IBMs part.
>

It's not really laziness when you consider that most ThinkPads are sold to large companies who have their own custom preloads and don't need or want the recovery CDs. It's a waste of time and $$$ to ship recovery CDs with every system when the bulk of them just end up in a landfill somewhere. Much better to make them available to purchasers who actually want them via a simple phone call - free in the first 30 days, a small fee after that.

Conmee · #67 Post by **Conmee** » Mon May 24, 2004 8:13 am

Windows comes with SP1 and runs a pre-install script that applies sixteen or so of previously released updates. I ran Windows Update on a brand new T42 and here's the result:

10 Critical Updates and Service Packs
13 Windows XP Components

36.8MB of download. And if you download the latest Windows Media Player, there will be two additional Critical Updates to fix that. And this doesn't include Messenger 4.7. For some reason, they require you to update Messenger 4.7 and download Messenger 6.2 separately.

Mofongo · #68 Post by **Mofongo** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:14 pm

Conmee wrote:Make it a bootable DVD (I did) and you can copy from the factory IBM install the following: C:\I386, C:\IBMTOOLS, C:\DRIVERS, C:\SUPPORT, and C:\VALUEADD.

OK...next stupid question. Why are these thinks sitting on the NTFS partition on the hard drive, anyway? (Not that I am complaining). Shouldn't they already be part of the IBM_SERVICE partition or predesktop area?

It seems quite redundant. The IBM_SERVICE partition (or predesktop area for T40/41) eats up 4.x GB on your drive, mostly holding the data it needs to reinstall. Then it just copies the installation packages to your NTFS partition, then installs from those. So in the end you have each piece of software on your drive 3 times: twice in the form of installation packages, and once as the actual installed software.

Good thing I didn't get a 40GB drive! I think I would have about 15K left for my data...

Mofongo

#69 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:43 pm

the recovery process works like this..
(or did)..

recovery pertition will recover directly and not install a second version of itself..

recovery CD set will (or did) give you the option of:
1. recover from CD's to HDD..
or
2. recover the hidden recovery partition and then initiate the recovery process from there..

all this was current with the last 5 CD recovery set for the 2373, 2378, 2379, 1830, 1832 etc..

with the T42 this might change..

YMMV

#70 Post by **shfawaz** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:59 pm

Was this T42 ordered directly from IBM? I didn't see this mentioned so I assume thats where it was purchased from.

Conmee · #71 Post by **Conmee** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:29 pm

shfawaz wrote:Was this T42 ordered directly from IBM? I didn't see this mentioned so I assume thats where it was purchased from.

My T42 was ordered directly from IBM. As for Mofongo's gripe, yes, the recovery/restore partition holds pkzipped files that are used to extract all the installation files after using a DriveImage-like utility to restore WinXP. In the new version, IBM uses a scripting language called Python to extract and config the system, then uses an application from Microsoft called sysprep to get the system ready for user setup and configuration.

I'm going to wipe out the Service Partition and install WinXP from scratch, and partition as needed. That way I don't have a drive half full of install files and restore files.

Daniel

benz · #72 Post by **benz** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:02 pm

Sorry if this has been covered before, I just want to clear something up:

Say I have a new Thinkpad (T42) and I wipe the HD clean (of ALL partitions, hidden and otherwise). I also have a retail box of WinXP Pro, which has been installed on another computer of mine. Can I (feasibly and legally) install this retail version of XP on the clean HD, but using the Product Key on the bottom of the Thinkpad?

Thanks.

Conmee · #73 Post by **Conmee** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:07 pm

benz wrote:Sorry if this has been covered before, I just want to clear something up:

Say I have a new Thinkpad (T42) and I wipe the HD clean (of ALL partitions, hidden and otherwise). I also have a retail box of WinXP Pro, which has been installed on another computer of mine. Can I (feasibly and legally) install this retail version of XP on the clean HD, but using the Product Key on the bottom of the Thinkpad?

Thanks.

No... the keys on the bottom of the ThinkPads are OEM keys and when you install it in a retail version, it will tell you that you have an incorrect key. You'll have to use the retail key, if indeed you have legally obtained it. lol

taphil · #74 Post by **taphil** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:24 pm

This is how I used the recovery CD's to install XP OEM by itself, without any of IBM/OEM setup and the long (and as Mofongo pointed out, maybe pointless) hour spent in pkunzip.

1. In BIOS, set up to boot from CD.
2. Boot from recovery CD disk #1.
3. Follow directions, it'll ask you if you want to erase everything.
4. It'll then re-image the hard disk, using disk #1 and #2.
5. When that's done, it'll ask you to put disk #1 back in.
6. Computer reboots, but quickly take out the recovery CD and boot from the hard drive! (What normally happens is that pkunzip will run using disks #1-5.)
7. Windows should load up.
8. At logon, it'll tell you that Windows must be activated. If you refuse, it'll log out and repeat.
9. Go on and activate Windows over the telephone.
(now this is where my memory begins to fail)
10. After activation, XP will log on and I think Sysprep begins to run. Just cancel it (try one of the three options, I can't remember which one but only work works, and reboot.
11. Windows will ask you to activate Windows again. Do it over the telephone.
12. Windows XP is now all set up with no IBM software.

If you don't have the recovery CD's but do have the Predesktop area in tact, you can restore from that. When it reboots after re-imaging the drive, all the pkunzip stuff should start to run. Just press CTRL+BREAK to stop pkunzip and reboot, then Windows will begin booting and just follow the steps above to activate.

IBM's system restore makes absolutely no sense to me. Doing the restore (1) re-images XP in 10 minutes, and (2) then spends the remaining 80 mins or so in pkunzip and setting up Windows software. The final product is maybe 4-5GB of space, which can be reduced by deleting the zipped packages. Why doesn't IBM just make the system restore function so that it just re-images the entire hard drive of Windows all set up, which might only take up 2GB of space and 15 minutes?

benz · #75 Post by **benz** » Mon May 24, 2004 8:01 pm

You'll have to use the retail key, if indeed you have legally obtained it.

Oh its legal alright. I bought it from my bookstore for my other computer at home, but I sure as hell don't want to buy another just to get a clean install of WinXP.

9. Go on and activate Windows over the telephone.
(now this is where my memory begins to fail)
10. After activation, XP will log on and I think Sysprep begins to run. Just cancel it (try one of the three options, I can't remember which one but only work works, and reboot.
11. Windows will ask you to activate Windows again. Do it over the telephone.

So you actually activate it twice, or am I misreading something? Why would Sysprep 'un'activate windows just by starting up? And won't the MS rep get a little suspicious when you call twice within 5min? I guess a lot of this I will just have to see for myself when I get my T42p, so I apologize if I'm not asking very intelligent questions.

taphil · #76 Post by **taphil** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:00 pm

Yes, I had to activate twice. Activation involved talking to a computer, so no actual person to deal with. I'm guessing it doesn't matter if you've activated twice because your hardware hasn't changed at all, so the hash code doesn't either and to MS it looks like the same computer.

tyipengr · #77 Post by **tyipengr** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:38 pm

Nah, its Microsoft. If they were like that it would make too much sense. I installed WinXP 3 times in one week when it first came out (Creative Labs SB Audigy drivers were CRAP, f'd everything up) and I had to talk to a person the third time around. Same hardware therefore same hash and of course I had to talk to someone. I sweat a little everytime I reinstall XP, someday they just aren't gonna let me activate it hehe.

I should just wait on activation next time.

BILLCROCKER · #78 Post by **BILLCROCKER** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:45 am

Bill, if you ordered enough TP's at once and asked for OS/2 to be preloaded instead of xp you mean they still wouldn't do it?

Conmee · #79 Post by **Conmee** » Tue May 25, 2004 6:52 am

Folks,

After four full days of testing/playing with the T42, and carrying it to work (portability test), the T42 with 15" SXGA+ has exceeded my expectations.

However... (Virgo and creative writing zone ahead... lol)... The one stuck green pixel mocks me everytime I turn on the system. ha. Although I really like the form-factor, I've started to wax nostalgic for the smaller size/weight of the 14" models. I've been operating an R40 and my T42 side-by-side, and although the white/black/contrast/color saturation is MUCH better on the Flexview, and the SXGA+ on 15" is what I would consider an ideal dpi/pitch for high resolution/easy reading, the stuck pixel and ghosting and that 'shadowing' effect that I've noticed in previous posts keeps gnawing at my conscience... lol. And last, but not least, I miss being able to replace the palmrest with the non-Trackpad version. Since the T42 15" models use the same/similar one-piece keyboard/palmrest bezel as the R50p, I can't replace the palmrest like I can with the 14" T40/T41/T42.

So with all that, and with heavy heart, I've obtained an RMA# for my T42 (2373CYU) and I've applied that credit to my T42p (2373-GRU) order. It's essentially the same as my T40p, but with Dothan, FireGL T2, DVD-R, APS, and PC2700... ok, so it's really NOT the same as my T40p other than form-factor and screen size/resolution... lol

I hope this thread and ongoing review has been helpful to some folks. And I hope I don't cause undue uneasiness in those folks who have ponied up money for a T42 15" model. It's a great machine, and if I didn't have a stuck pixel and could change the palmrest, I probably would have kept mine. When I get my T42p, I'll probably post my observations in this thread, unless there's enough for me to report that is different from my T42 in this thread to warrant a new thread.

Talk to you all soon.

Daniel.

akeskira · #80 Post by **akeskira** » Tue May 25, 2004 8:05 am

So with all that, and with heavy heart, I've obtained an RMA# for my T42 (2373CYU) and I've applied that credit to my T42p (2373-GRU) order.

Do you have to pay the shipping?

Antti

Conmee · #81 Post by **Conmee** » Tue May 25, 2004 8:11 am

For the new T42p I've ordered, shipping is free. For the RMA'd T42, yes, $8.40 UPS Ground 3 Day... I don't believe IBM pays for return shipping, even if to exchange one machine for another.

Daniel

HKILP7M8 · #82 Post by **HKILP7M8** » Tue May 25, 2004 8:34 am

I'm sorry to hear that you returned the CYU, I hope that the same thing does not happen to me. Did you originally want the 14'? Maybe that is the one you wanted all along. I'm still waiting for my CYU, I hope I'm not disappointed. BTW how was the battery life on it?

Irving

Conmee · #83 Post by **Conmee** » Tue May 25, 2004 8:43 am

HKILP7M8 wrote:I'm sorry to hear that you returned the CYU, I hope that the same thing does not happen to me. Did you originally want the 14'? Maybe that is the one you wanted all along. I'm still waiting for my CYU, I hope I'm not disappointed. BTW how was the battery life on it?

Irving

Irving,

I actually really wanted the 15" SXGA+... that was my main concern... but it really came down to not only do I live with the stuck pixel (sure I could have just ordered another CYU), but also the ghosting and the odd/occasional 'shadowing' effect that my particular Flexview produced. While the Flexview is VERY nice, as I mentioned before, I guess in the end, I didn't want to have to put up with the stuck pixel/ghosting/shadowing to get the better contrast/brightness/color saturation/screen size. And I do like the T42p form-factor after using a T40p for so long... got kind of spoiled with the slim design. If IBM ever put out a 14" Flexview with no dead/stuck pixels, I think I would be 100% happy, in stead of 99.9%. lol

Daniel

Nabeel · #84 Post by **Nabeel** » Fri May 28, 2004 4:47 pm

Mofongo wrote:
Conmee wrote:Make it a bootable DVD (I did) and you can copy from the factory IBM install the following: C:\I386, C:\IBMTOOLS, C:\DRIVERS, C:\SUPPORT, and C:\VALUEADD.
OK...next stupid question. Why are these thinks sitting on the NTFS partition on the hard drive, anyway? (Not that I am complaining). Shouldn't they already be part of the IBM_SERVICE partition or predesktop area?

It seems quite redundant. The IBM_SERVICE partition (or predesktop area for T40/41) eats up 4.x GB on your drive, mostly holding the data it needs to reinstall. Then it just copies the installation packages to your NTFS partition, then installs from those. So in the end you have each piece of software on your drive 3 times: twice in the form of installation packages, and once as the actual installed software.

Good thing I didn't get a 40GB drive! I think I would have about 15K left for my data...

Mofongo

I got a 40gb drive, I had about 26gb left, and then i freed up the service partition and had about 30gb free.

I also shipped mine back today because of the dead pixel I had. When I get my new one, I'm gonna do the same thing, except attempt to hunt down the extra junk that's on the windows drive that are backups.

ian · #85 Post by **ian** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:15 pm

I have yet to receive my T42 - and no doubt will be disappointed if I find a dead/stuck pixel - what I am wondering is this: is it reallysuch a terrible thing? Are we not just expecting too much (or is quality control simply not *quality* enough anymore?)It's very difficult to accept that there are a large number of people withoutscreen problems, and the *why does it always happen to me* syndrome clicks in and we get cross as we realise we're paying the same for an imperfect product.

Listening to all the people going on and on ad nauseum about stuck pixels and sending things back etc. I'm beginning to change my mind - obviously if the [censored] things are all over the place then yes, return the unit, but if we're really only talking about 1 dead transistor I think I'd rather accept this and USE the [censored] thing rather than prattle on about how annoying it is - knowing full well that in a few weeks I'll not even notice if it's there or not...

It seems to me some of us are missing the point - and perhaps using the pixel issue to return units to try other options/configurations. Maybe I'm being harsh - go back and see what's been said recently - let's face it, even Sony and dell (small 'D') have these problems too...

//eor

mbd_int · #86 Post by **mbd_int** » Fri May 28, 2004 6:09 pm

ian wrote:I have yet to receive my T42 - and no doubt will be disappointed if I find a dead/stuck pixel - what I am wondering is this: is it reallysuch a terrible thing? Are we not just expecting too much (or is quality control simply not *quality* enough anymore?)It's very difficult to accept that there are a large number of people withoutscreen problems, and the *why does it always happen to me* syndrome clicks in and we get cross as we realise we're paying the same for an imperfect product.

Listening to all the people going on and on ad nauseum about stuck pixels and sending things back etc. I'm beginning to change my mind - obviously if the [censored] things are all over the place then yes, return the unit, but if we're really only talking about 1 dead transistor I think I'd rather accept this and USE the [censored] thing rather than prattle on about how annoying it is - knowing full well that in a few weeks I'll not even notice if it's there or not...

It seems to me some of us are missing the point - and perhaps using the pixel issue to return units to try other options/configurations. Maybe I'm being harsh - go back and see what's been said recently - let's face it, even Sony and dell (small 'D') have these problems too...

//eor

For me personally the dead pixel policy (up to 8!!!) on laptops and other products involving TFT LCD displays has been a major obstacle in the buying process.

Buying NEW expensive product from a very reputable company I expect ZERO dead pixels and PERFECT condition.

Trying to protect themselves from returns of DEFECTIVE laptops/monitors companies hurt their business. IMO, no matter what technology is used the results should be defect-free.

T40 2373-72U

cynic · #87 Post by **cynic** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:10 pm

Personally, I won't accept an LCD with a dead pixel. It would probably be ok with me if I thought it was within "spec" (as in, it is a common enough problem) however every single laptop I've received and every single LCD I've ever used has never had a defective pixel. Not a one and I've never had to play games with pre-inspections or returning and rebuying. To me, that means that having perfect LCDs is not as hard as manufacturers are saying. At work, in one room, we have 5 Sony PremierPro 23" screens used on one workstation (1920x1200 each). Not a single one of them has a defective pixel. The list goes on and on... so how can LCD makers say that QA can't prevent dead pixels without prices going through the roof?

Now, I have one friend who I convinced to buy a T series. He ended up geting the XGA screen and it has one always on red pixel. He can be more accepting than me, but 8 months later it still bothers him. If he hadn't bought it in the UK, I would've demanded him to send it back to IBM for an exchange immediately (after all my SXGA+ has no dead pixels at all and I had a premature backlight fail on it and the replacement LCD had no dead pixels at all.) I use his laptop sometimes and it drives me nuts.

He wanted another laptop recently (this one is an X40) and I convinced him two things: A) buy it in America where we could have it returned until we had a perfect screen and B) get it from Bill

. Luckily, I asked Bill to check it before sending it out because there is no way I'm dealing with any dead pixels. (heck, I can't stand the stickers, the Intel and Microsoft adverts, on the palmrests and ordered a new palmrest just to be rid of them)

Nabeel · #88 Post by **Nabeel** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:34 pm

I'm the same way, all in all, it doesn't really matter, but I paid alot of money for it and I want it defect free. It began to bother me having it there, my eye would draw itself to it, and it's one of those annoyances.

And it can happen to any brand or manufacturer. It amzes me sometimes that there aren't any defects, especially with the nature of how small and delicate these technologies are. I use a Philips LCD monitor now and it runs amazingly, I want my laptop the same way..

Chun-Yu · #89 Post by **Chun-Yu** » Fri May 28, 2004 10:01 pm

cynic wrote:heck, I can't stand the stickers, the Intel and Microsoft adverts, on the palmrests and ordered a new palmrest just to be rid of them

I left mine on for a while, but when the top layer of the Centrino sticker started cracking, removed them with a hair dryer. There is no trace of any adhesive or anything left

benz · #90 Post by **benz** » Sat May 29, 2004 12:24 am

I left mine on for a while, but when the top layer of the Centrino sticker started cracking, removed them with a hair dryer. There is no trace of any adhesive or anything left

Wow that sounds like a good idea, don't have to worry about cleaning agents possibly reacting with the case (why I'm so hesitant about removing them from my old one). Describe in more detail exactly how you removed these stickers with the hair dryer please.

IBM ThinkPad T42 (2373CYU) - My firsthand impressions...

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