Partitiin Magic 8

[waspfish]

I ordered a 60GB drive for my machine but it arrives with just 50GB. I am assuming that the space is eaten up by Windows?

Also, I am thinking of installing PartitionMagic 8 on my thinkpad, thought I'd check with you guys to make sure this is not a bad move.

[Steve007]

I gave up partitioning my HDD about a year ago - I find it pretty pointless these days! For extra storage/back-up I just use a 250GB (7200RPM) external disk.

If you do intend to partition yours then you can't go wrong with PartitionMagic 8.

[Torque]

Theres a hidden partition on the drive, which is what's eating up your harddisk space. Same goes for my 60GB drive.

[DaveO]

Theres a hidden partition on the drive, which is what's eating up your harddisk space. Same goes for my 60GB drive.

Yes and if your keen, the install files dont fill the whole hidden partition, so you can rob back 500-1000mb using partition magic, i use version 7.0

[egibbs]

I have and use PM 7.0, but I've never felt safe running it from Windows XP(probably because it crashed after rebooting to semi-DOS mode once and wiped out my partition table).

I have never had a problem running it from floppies (you can build floppies from inside the Windows version). IMHO that is the way to go. Not as pretty but much safer.

Ed Gibbs

[dmcgibbo]

i'm going to make a partition (just for music i guess or maybe put music and my documents on it) but would also like to reclaim some from the hidden partition.

i have partition magic 8 but am reluctant to play around with it b/c my last computer became unrecoverable b/c of a problem when i was partitioning a drive. when i called powerquest (partition magic at the time) the tech guy basically told me that the program created TONS of problems and was coded for win2000 originally so basically you should make a complete image of your drive before you do anything (and of course purchase their drive image program)

[egibbs]

You would absolutely want to have a current backup (image, backup set, CDds, tape, 500 floppies, or whatever) before doing ANYTHING WRT the partitions on your drive.

BTW - I use DriveImage and like it much better than Rapid Restore/Rescue and Recovery. But I also run it from floppy, not from Windows. I'm very skeptical about any product that claims to be able to do low level stuff on a system volume with Windows loaded.

Ed Gibbs

[dmcgibbo]

i have retrospect backup express which can either duplicate a drive (copies all the contents) or create a backup set. the problem is that i think it doesn't do everything b/c some files are being used so it can't read those. maybe i'll use retrospect to duplicate the drive onto my external drive and use drive image or a program like that to save a complete image. i've never had to use the backup set to "restore" my hard drive so i don't know how well it would work. i wish retrospect could just do an image.

[Matt_]

I have a couple of Partition Magic 8.0 questions.
On page 24 of the manual, it recommends using Windows' defragmenter because "defragmenting your hard drive will optimize the storage of data by organizing your files in a contiguous order".
Maybe what I am remembering is something that only applies to previous Microsoft operating systems or else maybe I am remembering incorrectly, but I was certain that I had read, while it is okay and useful to defragment other partitions on the hard drive, that the C: partition with the operating system should never be defragmented.

Page 24 talks about setting a preference for "Read-Only" to "prevent PartitionMagic from making any changes to a hard disk". In what kind of scenario would this be necessary ?

I think I have a pretty good understanding of an "extended partition". But page 20 mentions there is also an "extendedx partition". What is the difference and when is "extendedx partition" used ?

Once it is "unhidden", will the Hidden Partition Area be a) assigned a drive letter by Partition Magic and b) categorized as a logical partition by Partition Magic ?

I am planning on creating at least a partition for data and possibly a partition for backing up the C: partition.
Once I create the new partition(s), will it/they have to be formatted ?

Thank you in advance for your time and help

[egibbs]

I can help with a few of your questions...

The Windows partition absolutely SHOULD be defragged on a regular basis. You can use the built-in defragger or any good defrag utility. I like Diskeeper but there are many other good ones. Aviod Norton Speed Disk like the plague.

I guess you'd use the read only option of you have a drive that you don't want it messing with by accident.

I have no idea what an extendedx partition is.

The hidden partition will look like just another drive in Windows if you unhide it.

When you create new extended partitions you will then need to create new logical partitions in them and then format them. Quick Format is ok and will only take a few minutes - not like the old days of waiting hours for a drive to format.

Based on personal experience I would strongly recommend that before messing with the drive containing your boot partition you make the PM rescue disks, shut the machine down, boot from the rescue disks, and make all your changes from that interface rather than the Windows interface. I've had a couple occasions where PM blew at a critical point in the re-partitioning process when run from Windows, and left me with an un-bootable disk. That has never happened when I run it from the rescue disks.

If you choose to ignore that advice be sure you have an XP CD handy, know how to get into the recovery console, and know how to run chkdsk from there. Chkdsk is usually able to repair the damage though it takes a couple hours to do so.

Ed Gibbs

[Matt_]

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with my questions.

When you create new extended partitions you will then need to create new logical partitions in them and then format them. Quick Format is ok and will only take a few minutes - not like the old days of waiting hours for a drive to format.

I haven't formatted a partition before. Would using PM to format be fine ? (p. 48 "Partition > Format")

Thank you for your suggestions in the other thread. Rather than reply to them here, I'll ask a follow-up question regarding the format type *if* I do decide now or down the road to use a partition for data. I don't have it committed to memory all the advantages of NTFS over FAT32, but I'm aware that for Windows XP that it'd be preferrable -- the only thing that made me hesitate was the warning that "p.73 converting an NTFS partition to FAT lets you view the contents of the partition from DOS, or Windows 9x/Me/NT/2000/XP". I'm not planning either to run a dual-boot system with DOS or to install old DOS-based programs, so as things are I can't think of where/when I'd need anything offered by FAT32.

PP. 34-37 Creating Partition:
In the box for "size", can I just enter a even (i.e. non-decimal) number ? Should I let PM choose the default cluster size ? I think I read that I'd only need the largest size 64K if I were using a partition for very large video files.

I will follow your great advice regarding the rescue disks -- I definitely want to proceed as safely and cautiously as possible. PP. 9-10 list the available command line switches, but almost all of them seem to cover either things that I don't need to turn off or else things that seem to already be done automatically by PM. The only one that sounds worth using (?) is /RAV ("Tells Partition Magic to read and verify all disk writes. Enabling this option increases the length of time needed to perform some operations, but it ensures that the operation outcome is accurate." Any comments ?

Also, regarding running PM from the rescue disks... :
Before running PM in Windows, the manual recommends turning off any background processes such as anti-virus software, screen blanker, etc. Does any of this apply to what I'll encounter when I run PM with the rescue disks ? I mean, Windows isn't going to be accessible during this process, right, but will I need to shut off other things that could interrupt the PM program such as the thinkpad's "standby" and "hibernate" modes ?
I'm also curious about the fact that the rescue disks only need to run off of 2-3 1.44MB disks, while the PM box says 55MB of hdd space are needed for the full installation Parition Magic for Windows. What are those other 52 or 53 MB for ?
The manual mentioned something about a possible 3rd rescue disk "including fonts if you create rescue disks for a double-byte language" ?

And later on when I get a chance I'll look into the alternative to MS's defragmenter that you mentioned "Diskeeper".
Thanks again for your help. I hope I haven't loaded you down with questions -- it's just that a reading and a re-reading of the manual created more questions than answers for me.

Take care

[egibbs]

Using the PM Format utility is fine - just make sure you format the correct partition, NOT your Windows partition. You'd have to try really hard to screw that up, but I have to mention it.

No reason for FAT unless you need to run old software that doesn't know NTFS. NTFS is better in every way.

You can enter even numbers and PM will pick the closest possible value based on your disk geometry and cluster size. Just let it pick the cluster size - some people get into tweaking cluster size based on the way they use their disk, but that is definitely an advanced subject and PM does a fine job.

You can have it verify disk writes if you want to be extra safe - depends how long you want to stare at a blank screen.

You shouldn't need to worry about command line switches - the floppy version will load to a (ugly) GUI - remember the old DOS Norton Utilities? Looks about the same. You can make all your selections in the GUI.

I'm not sure what the power options are in the newer BIOS - my TP is a T20. If you have a sleep timer in BIOS you should probably disable it. Anything running under Windows will be no problem as Windows will be sleeping peacefully on the disk when you boot from floppy.

On my machine the screen blanks after 1/2 hour even in DOS mode, which is kind of scary the first time it happens. But just move the mouse and it comes back - though it may take a while as the machine will be very busy doing disk stuff and the display has a low priority.

So if a fully functional version of PM can fit on 2 floppies, why is the Windows version 52 MB? Can you say "BLOAT?" Can you say "video tutorials, help files, PDF copies of the manual, support for multiple languages, animated doowhickies and 24 bit color thingamabobs, etc., etc., etc." Can you say "a conspiracy between Intel, Microsoft, software vendors and OEMs to make us buy faster machines with bigger drives every few years?"

Now you know why some people hate Windows.

Ed Gibbs

[Matt_]

Thank you Ed for all the time that you spent helping me out; I really appreciate it -- I know that because of it I'll have a much easier time with PartitionMagic. It was shortly after your last reply that I ran into the problems with my 2373 (I'll be ordering another one this week). So between that, returing it and waiting for a refund, and then having other things come up, I haven't had a chance till now to say thank you.