160GB: Samsung vs. Hitachi

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schmaud · #1 Post by **schmaud** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:02 am

Hallo,

does anyone got experience with any of these 160GB HDD:

SAMSUNG SpinPoint M80 (HM160JC)
2.5", 8.0MB Cache, 5400 U/Min, 12 ms, IDE, ATA-6, UDMA/100, fluid bearing

or

HITACHI Travelstar 5K160 (HTS541616J9AT00),
2.5", 8.0MB Cache, 5400 U/Min, 11 ms, IDE, ATA-7, UDMA/100
?

I am mainly concerned about long-term stability & noise/heat/batterie and less about speed.

Due to my new digi-cam my T42- 40 GB drive is full. Since the 160GB are not really more expensive per GB than smaller drives. I decided that i can as well max out the system.

I decided against the 7200 rpm drives since they are smaller and quite abit more expensive, I was happy with the speed of my old 5400 drive.

I excluded the segate from the list since they seem to have problems with the recovery partition.

Thanks for any input,

ralf

jaydznyc · #2 Post by **jaydznyc** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:37 pm

I have been running the Hitachi 5K160 with Vista for about a week now with no major issues. (Just the annoying 2010 error) The drive is quiet, no louder then the original HD. Performance isn't to bad, a better comparison would’ve been if i ran WinXP like i had before. (Just set it up as a dual-boot but haven't used XP too much) Heat and battery life has remained the same as before. I use this laptop extensively and i'm content with the upgrade.

#3 Post by **richk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:44 pm

It is hard to get worthwhile answers to this question. There can be a significant difference in the noise level for 2 drives of the same model and both can be within specs. I have had a couple of SAmsung drives fail and have had good luck with Hitachi drives, so I always choose Hitachi. Another guy might have had bad luck with a couple of Hitachi drives, so he or she would always say that Samsung is better.

Thinkpaddict · #4 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:29 pm

I would go with the Hitachi anytime. Besides some stupid problems iwth early 7K100 drives back in the T41 era that could be solved with firmware upgrades, these litle guys are very reliable. About the noise levels...Yes, there can be some differences between models, and even within the same model (while being within specs.) This is because dB is on a logarithmic scale. If you are extremely sensitive to noise, maybe you should research this a little more. Otherwise, go with the Hitachi and you'll be happy as a clam.

sugo · #5 Post by **sugo** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:54 pm

Did you mean 7K60?

Brad · #6 Post by **Brad** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:38 am

I currently have two 160gb drives in my A22p's. One a Seagate and the other the Hitachi. They are both very quiet and appear to me to be quieter than the 7K100 100gb Hitachi that one of the 160gb's replaced. I don't have any experience with the Samsung.

My SOTP feeling is that the 160gb drives seem almost as fast and just a wee bit slower than the 7.2k rpm drive. I think both 160gb drives from both manufacturers use the perpendicular recording if I am not mistaken. If I am incorrect please don't hesitate to chime in.

Brad

koden · #7 Post by **koden** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:23 am

I would also like 160 Gb.
But is 5400 Rpm in 160 GB not slower than 7200 Rpm in 100 GB?

or is for normal use not to be worried about??

schmaud · #8 Post by **schmaud** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:38 pm

I found this site, maybe it si usefull:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/storage25.html

I started the thread initialy, but my spamfilter blockt the answers, so i ordered the samsung in the mean time (was faster available). I will post my experiences later.

cheers

ralf

dtaraev · #9 Post by **dtaraev** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:35 am

jaydznyc,

Do you know if Lenova guys are going to make a firmware update for the Hitachi 5K160 hard drive? I'm asking this as I'm considering to buy this hard drive myself.

Thinkpaddict · #10 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:01 pm

sugo wrote:Did you mean 7K60?

Uh, yes sorry. If memory doesn't fail me, I was pretty drunk during my last forum rampage

gioia · #11 Post by **gioia** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:32 am

jaydznyc wrote:I have been running the Hitachi 5K160 with Vista for about a week now with no major issues. (Just the annoying 2010 error) The drive is quiet, no louder then the original HD. Performance isn't to bad, a better comparison would’ve been if i ran WinXP like i had before. (Just set it up as a dual-boot but haven't used XP too much) Heat and battery life has remained the same as before. I use this laptop extensively and i'm content with the upgrade.

Please, you must do me an enormous favour.
Can you please go into BIOS on startup (by pressing the blue "Access IBM" button when prompted) and write down the details presented on the opening screen. I.e. BIOS Version, BIOS date, System-unit serial number, etc. I would like to compare with mine.

I currently have tried using the Samsung HM160JC 5400rpm 160Gb PATA HDD and both when placed into the laptop (BIOS level) or when using a USB caddy (OS level), my T43 only recognises 131Gb.

Did you have to flash your BIOS to accept the 5K160?? What are your thoughts on my dilemma?

I'm not concerned with the "2010" error for the time being as my thinkpad is not even recognising the entire capacity of the drive.

Regards,

Michael Gioia

Sloba · #12 Post by **Sloba** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:18 am

@gioia: do you have SP2 installed?

gioia · #13 Post by **gioia** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:32 am

[quote="Sloba"]@gioia: do you have SP2 installed?[/quote

Yes. WinXP PRO SP2.
I'm just wondering whether Norton Ghost 10 clobers the drive.
As when I received the Samsung drive from the supplier, pulled it out of its shiny anti-static bag it showed up with the entire 160Gb capacity (its more like 154Gb after conversion from bytes to Gigabytes), when used in a USB external caddy.
I ghosted my current 120Gb to the 160Gb as I've done in the past. I.e. 40Gb to 80Gb, and again another time with 80Gb to 120Gb.
Except this time the drive didn't load when popped into the T43. I'm like..."interesting". Put the old one back in, booted up, when to Partition Magic 8.0 with the 160Gb in the caddy, and then bang. Lo and behold the drive showed up as 131Gb. But with the single primary NTFS partition that I was expecting. So its like, yes it copies something, but loses capacity and also does not boot OS. Interesting.....Yanked it out of the caddy. Put it back in the laptop. Booted up BIOS. Sure enough, it shows as 131Gb in BIOS. Mind you, I can't figure out how to get IBM's thinkpad to show HDD capacity in BIOS, I had to put the drive in an LG laptop to show the 131Gb capacity in its BIOS. If anyone knows how to do this, please shed some light for that as well.

So, yeh, I'm guessing its a BIOS limitation. But, why would it show up initially in a USB caddy in Partition Magic 8.0 with its full 160Gb unallocated capacity. After that, when I clone via Norton Ghost 10 I can never get the 160Gb back. Mind you, bought two HDD's (Samsung HM160JC) just to make sure it wasn't a drive defect. Exact same result.

So, question remains, maybe Norton Ghost 10 is killing me here, or maybe it is the BIOS. But why would jaydznyc be able to run his T43 with the 160Gb. Maybe with a fresh rebuild rather than ghosting. So then, fine. I'll do the same. Except how the hell am I going to get my 160Gb of unallocated space back ?!?

Thoughts anyone?

gioia · #14 Post by **gioia** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:37 am

[quote="gioia"][quote="Sloba"]@gioia: do you have SP2 installed?[/quote

Funny thing I'll also mention, is that this is also being experienced on my personal home/use LG laptop.
I just thought I'd muck around on my work T43 thinkpad as its a newer PC with obviously a new BIOS. I thought once I troubleshoot what the problem is, I'd be able to take that knowledge back to my personal laptop.

Except whether its my 3 year old LG laptop or my new T43 thinkpad, I just can't the 160Gb HDD capacity back on both my Samsung HM160JC's HDDs.

I need jaydznyc to shed some light how he managed to run his T43 in the setup he currently has which he mentioned in this thread.

monkey243 · #15 Post by **monkey243** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:49 pm

I think HITACHI is more stable than SAMSUNG.
When someone used SAMSUNG HDD, saied there were always some problems, HDD losted when booting, data gone, etc.

Temetka · #16 Post by **Temetka** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:24 am

gioia wrote:Thoughts anyone?

Yep. Is the partition marked as active?

#17 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:40 am

gioia wrote:Thoughts anyone?

See following thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=38496

Additionally you may need to use the -IB (eye-bee) switch with Norton Ghost.

http://entkb.symantec.com/security/outp ... 81325.html

Gustavo · #18 Post by **Gustavo** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:47 am

I have 2 Samsung 80GB drives and 1 Fujitsu and 1 Hitachi the Samsung are VERY quiet, but I think the Hitachi has higher performance. But in real life the diff. is minicule.

For quiet op go Samsung for perf. go Hitachi.

gioia · #19 Post by **gioia** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:22 am

Temetka wrote:
gioia wrote:Thoughts anyone?
Yep. Is the partition marked as active?

Okay, it wasn't initially. Just as a trial, I went back into Partition Magic and marked it as active. It asked to reboot. Upon reboot, when I re-entered Partition Magic, the drive was present, marked as active, with its NTFS partition, still marked as 131Gb only, not 160Gb.

Some revelations now....which are not good.
http://www.48bitlba.com/usbharddrives.htm
Mentions the fact that a BIOS limiting 48 bit lba should not affect drives larger than 131Gb. They should pop-up fine. Which, in theory it initially did when first popped in to the USB caddy after being opened. Only after partitioning and ghosting a 120Gb drive to it, did it screw up. Fine. That also makes sense. But now, the drive has been stuck on 131Gb. Any attempts at a "secure erase" and erasing MBR using Super Fdisk application from DOS (Super Fdisk boots from DOS using a downloaded ISO), fails.

I don't believe its a drive defect, I bought another HM160JC from Samsung. Same thing with that one too. I'm heading towards monkey243's comments. Not that my two individual drives are bad, but more like Samsung's HM160JC product across the board is bad.

My second drive that I'm referring to was RMA'd some time ago (as I immediately thought it was drive defect. This was prior to me reading about 48bit LBA limitations). I'm getting that back soon. I think that the retailer informed me via e-mail that after sending it to and getting it back from Samsung, it was replaced. Now....I've dealt with companies and RMA's before. They never actually diagnose anything, they just simply replace. It's cheaper for them. I will get a report though, so I guess I'll wait for that.

So, any other thoughts??

koden · #20 Post by **koden** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:29 am

try: right click my computer>manage>disk management
maybe the last 30Gb is there as an unformated partition?
happend for me once...

gioia · #21 Post by **gioia** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:57 am

GomJabbar wrote:
gioia wrote:Thoughts anyone?
See following thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=38496

Additionally you may need to use the -IB (eye-bee) switch with Norton Ghost.

http://entkb.symantec.com/security/outp ... 81325.html

The thread you mentioned, a bit vague. Doesn't really explain much for my personal situation.

The -IB switch is turned on in Norton Ghost 10 by selecting the option of "Copy Master Boot Record". The document you referenced me to was not for Norton Ghost 10, and I do select that option anyhow.

gioia · #22 Post by **gioia** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:03 am

koden wrote:try: right click my computer>manage>disk management
maybe the last 30Gb is there as an unformated partition?
happend for me once...

Definately not there, be it in Disk Management or Partition Magic 8.0. This drive is stuck as 131Gb.
If people want to keep dumping suggestions, please do so. In the meantime I might look at getting a HTS541616J9AT00 (Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PATA 5400 rpm 2.5inch HDD), and see If I encounter the same issues. Even monkey243 suggested this. It may be a Samsung defect. In which case, I better get my money back for both HM160JC drives.... :@
Also....Still awaiting jaydznyc's comments on getting his T43 to run with a 5K160. Whether he needed a BIOS upgrade. And what his current BIOS version is and Embedded Controller Version is also...(I've noted in a previous post how to get this information; it should just show up automatically on an initial presentation screen when entering BIOS at startup)

Thanks to all and....please....keep firing.

gioia · #23 Post by **gioia** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:58 am

gioia wrote:
koden wrote:try: right click my computer>manage>disk management
maybe the last 30Gb is there as an unformated partition?
happend for me once...
Definately not there, be it in Disk Management or Partition Magic 8.0. This drive is stuck as 131Gb.
If people want to keep dumping suggestions, please do so. In the meantime I might look at getting a HTS541616J9AT00 (Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PATA 5400 rpm 2.5inch HDD), and see If I encounter the same issues. Even monkey243 suggested this. It may be a Samsung defect. In which case, I better get my money back for both HM160JC drives.... :@
Also....Still awaiting jaydznyc's comments on getting his T43 to run with a 5K160. Whether he needed a BIOS upgrade. And what his current BIOS version is and Embedded Controller Version is also...(I've noted in a previous post how to get this information; it should just show up automatically on an initial presentation screen when entering BIOS at startup)

Thanks to all and....please....keep firing.

Okay....Here's a summary.

I'm massively unimpressed with Samsung. It was their drive.
The Hitachi GST drive (HGST) HTS541616J9AT00 (Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PATA 5400 rpm 2.5inch HDD) is fantastic.
I've manipulated the bejesus out of it. Set up several file systems/partitions and wiped them away again with a format; all numerous times. And what do you know....It retains its 160Gb. I'm now in the middle of interesting "arguments" with a supplier to refund me the money I have spent on the two Samsung HM160JC.

So thats one thing down. Next, I'm still trying to ghost my Thinkpad HDD over via an external caddy to my new HGST drive. It works after Norton Ghost 10 gives me a confirmation saying so. Except when the drive in inserted into the lappy, the OS does not boot.

Lenovo have a HDD drive bay replicator that slides into where my DVDRW DL drive does atm. It supposedly comes with drive cloning software. Perhaps this may be an alternative?
It is a work laptop, so I''m just wondering whether the IBM prebuild is screwing me over or not.

gioia · #24 Post by **gioia** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:02 am

gioia wrote:
gioia wrote: Definately not there, be it in Disk Management or Partition Magic 8.0. This drive is stuck as 131Gb.
If people want to keep dumping suggestions, please do so. In the meantime I might look at getting a HTS541616J9AT00 (Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PATA 5400 rpm 2.5inch HDD), and see If I encounter the same issues. Even monkey243 suggested this. It may be a Samsung defect. In which case, I better get my money back for both HM160JC drives.... :@
Also....Still awaiting jaydznyc's comments on getting his T43 to run with a 5K160. Whether he needed a BIOS upgrade. And what his current BIOS version is and Embedded Controller Version is also...(I've noted in a previous post how to get this information; it should just show up automatically on an initial presentation screen when entering BIOS at startup)

Thanks to all and....please....keep firing.

Okay....Here's a summary.

I'm massively unimpressed with Samsung. It was their drive.
The Hitachi GST drive (HGST) HTS541616J9AT00 (Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PATA 5400 rpm 2.5inch HDD) is fantastic.
I've manipulated the bejesus out of it. Set up several file systems/partitions and wiped them away again with a format; all numerous times. And what do you know....It retains its 160Gb. I'm now in the middle of interesting "arguments" with a supplier to refund me the money I have spent on the two Samsung HM160JC.

So thats one thing down. Next, I'm still trying to ghost my Thinkpad HDD over via an external caddy to my new HGST drive. It works after Norton Ghost 10 gives me a confirmation saying so. Except when the drive in inserted into the lappy, the OS does not boot.

Lenovo have a HDD drive bay replicator that slides into where my DVDRW DL drive does atm. It supposedly comes with drive cloning software. Perhaps this may be an alternative?
It is a work laptop, so I''m just wondering whether the IBM prebuild is screwing me over or not.

Final update. Got the 2nd HDD Adapter for Ultra Bay 2000. Also, downgraded to Norton Ghost 2003, from Norton Ghost 10 (which works via an emulated DOS environment. It HAS to boot to this environment to clone disks, whereas Norton Ghost 10 does a clone while sitting in the OS environment). This clone procedure worked. I successfully copied my 40Gb to a HTS541616J9AT00 (Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PATA 5400 rpm 2.5inch HDD), obviously having the 2010 error on bootup. But who cares.

I've always been skeptical of Norton Ghost 10's ability to clone a disk/partition without having the need to boot to a primitive OS environment prior to when Win XP/2000/etc loads. How can you clone a disk/OS when actually sitting in the OS environment itself? Well...its worked once before on a non-Thinkpad laptop with an external USB caddy containing the 2nd HDD but didn't this time on my thinkpad with an IBM pre-build. Norton Ghost 2003 and the 2nd HDD Bay, instead, worked perfectly.

Perhaps I can tweak Norton Ghost 2003's boot disk feature to make it read my external USB caddy. There are options to copy usbapi sys files to its boot disk so it can read external USB caddies in this primitive MS-DOS environment, but it hasn't worked thus far.
When I get into Norton Ghost 2003 via its boot disk it does not pickup my external USB caddy containing the 2nd HDD.

I guess there's no need if I have this 2nd HDD ultra bay, but I'm sure Norton Ghost 2003's boot disk environment is able to read external USB caddies containing HDD's??? Am I right???

schmaud · #25 Post by **schmaud** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:16 am

Hi,

a bit delayed, here is what I observed:

- there is no drammatic difference in speed between the new samsung 160 GB and the original 40 GB ( both 5400), I couldn^t tell which one is faster from just working with the system
- cloning the hdd with the acronis software ( look on the US server for the trail version of the "home" package, odly it is missing on some european sites) was fast and easy, hidden partition was cloned as well, R&R start if I press the bue key...
- the noise is different. the samsung makes constant very low noise which is a bit as a fan, the hitachi has mor e of the technical noises (positioning etc). The samsung has a constant low level, The hitachi makes more aktivity nois on a lower background. Even while I am noise sensitive, I like both. with the system at the desk it is quiter that the big Dell system under the table.
- no noticable difference in Battery life expectency. ( read: full charge 6 cell is around 5 h, I am not discussing sub 5 min changes here)

cheers

Ralf

160GB: Samsung vs. Hitachi

160GB: Samsung vs. Hitachi

Samsung expirience

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