Some issues with my T41...(or T41p...) (Warning Image)

[Jiro]

Hi guys,

I had a warranty job done not too long ago about 8 months ago for my t41. This was the model with the 32meg ati7500 video. When the motherboard was replaced, they replaced it (to my surprise) with a T41p motherboard. This model was with the 128meg Ati FireGL T2 video. I did not complain, I am not sure though if it was right or not to call them back and tell them they had made a mistake (or no mistake?), but i kept my mouth closed.

Today I finally opened up my computer to blow out some dust for the first time. I took a picture of it here:



I realize there were different types of HSF for the t-series, i believe there was long and short heat sinks. Taking a look at mine id have to say mine would be the short version.

Is this going to be a problem with the FireGL T2? I do recall vaguely seeing fairly high gpu temps during high extensive 3d applications. I should retest. (but i should not if it is unsafe)

Further issue is the palm rest. This has always been a problem since the start. I got used to it but I thought id might as well throw it out here as well. I have uploaded a video here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K676AYJ8

Here you can clearly see the creaking in action. The left side is fine. The right side is the problem. This is not a huge issue, but if this issue was addressed it would make this TP perfect, but the problem is i dont know how to do that.

[Bgradid]

You're going to need the long fan option for that, I don't think that video card will last long without it without dying.

[cmarti]

Yeah, get the long fan a M10, it's only $25.00 on ebay.

And don't forget to buy also artic silver 5 for the cpu.

[Temetka]

just in case you're thinking you can get away with the short HSF... you can't. Heat will kill that lovely GPU.

[Jiro]

omg... well i wonder why lenovo decided to do that?

Crazy... I didn't know until now that i need a longfan cause i never opened my t41 up before, its been running fine for the last 8 months...

Thanks!

This might explain why sometimes i leave the computer on all night... and the next day the screen is black when i wake up sometimes...

I just immediately bought the m10 long fan off the internet along with arctic silver off ebay just now after you guys posted.

Thanks so much... gosh i feel like an idiot, i should have opened up my laptop after i noticed windows recognized that it was a fireGL T2 8 months ago... (still working great by the way)... i dont know how though. I wonder if it would be okay if i kept using it while the stuff arrives.

[Jiro]

sorry for double post

Here are some vital signs from the fan control utility:

CPU 81°C (0x78)
APS 46°C (0x79)
PCM 33°C (0x7a)
GPU 60°C (0x7b)
BAT 33°C (0x7c)
BAT 28°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)

This is at idle.
******************

CPU 73°C (0x78)
APS 40°C (0x79)
PCM 32°C (0x7a)
GPU 45°C (0x7b)
BAT 33°C (0x7c)
BAT 28°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)

maxing out the fan speed... i dont care if the fan breaks... im getting a new one anyway. (i actually blew alot of cold air in from a dust remover spray since i was paranoid too)

[sugo]

Is your cpu on adaptive mode? 81'C is way too high for idle.

[Jiro]

here are vital signs now speed stepped to 592mhz with just firefox, and msn messenger running.

CPU 33°C (0x78)
APS 37°C (0x79)
PCM 29°C (0x7a)
GPU 43°C (0x7b)
BAT 30°C (0x7c)
BAT 28°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)

T41p mobo with shortfan setup (no heatsink on fireGL gpu). The fan speed is set to max (fixed at 7). I wonder this fan will last going ~4300rpm constantly until i get my longfan?

By the way, do these tempertures look safe? Should i even operate this computer?

What is adaptive mode?

[Temetka]

I don't know what the temps should be.

Adaptive mode throttles the CPU based on demand. The more intensive programs get, the faster the CPU operates at. You can set this mode using the battery maximizer software.

[armani007]

I was wondering what app you're using to read the temps.

Thanks

[Jiro]

ahh i use fancontrol which i downloaded awhile ago, so i forget where i got it from. I also use NHC program. (Notebook hardware control)

[FTC]

Jiro, you should worry only about your GPU. The short fan is fine for cooling the CPU only, as it is... but lacks the ability to cool the GPU which your TP needs. Now, regarding GPU, as long as your temp is under 90C, it is all well. ATI GPUs have a max temp that is above 100C. The idle (2D) temps of the GPU are a lot lower than these limits, so you are ok. It will be only if you run a 3D mode game that your GPU temp would skyrocket without the long fan.

So in summary, if your short fan is properly installed you would not need to run adaptative or anything, just don't run 3D games until you replace that fan... but the fact that your CPU reaches 80C at idle suggest that even the short fan is probably not correctly installed (lacking thermal paste or not doing good contact).

I also suggest you to run NHC and undervolt a bit your CPU. Not that you need to (as per the above reasoning), but because cooler is always better...

[Tsuioku]

Now, regarding GPU, as long as your temp is under 90C, it is all well. ATI GPUs have a max temp that is above 100C.

You sure about the tolerances of the FireGL T2?

Recently, I accidentally put my T41P into my backpack before it completely shutdown. Turns out it hung on a program and never shutdown. So after 30 minutes in my backpack, when I logged it, the CPU was at 80C and kept on going on an endless loop BSOD --> Restart... I couldn't check the GPU temp as the BSOD would occur ~15s of logging in.

I turned off the laptop, let it cool for a few hours and when I turned it on again, the error report stated that it was a problem w/ the GPU. Assuming the usual GPU Temp = CPU Temp + ~5C, my gpu should still be under 100C... Do I have a faulty GPU?

[agarza]

The GPU should cope with 100C temp. I also had a problem with my new T42p which came with the short fan instead of the LONG! Anyways I played and the screen would go black frequently, then found out TPFanControl and saw the GPU temp rise to 90C (even more) without crashing. After the HSF replacement all the problems was gone.

I was unable to download the video, but if your problem is related to the right side of the palmrest creaking just below the right Ctrl key, pianowizard advice this:

I had a similar problem with my T43. The problem was ameliorated by:

1) loosening the screws for the keyboard, sliding the keyboard as far away from the palmrest as possible, and then retightening the keyboard screws; and

2) Tightening some of the palmrest screws.

Here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#259138

[Jiro]

Alright I got the m10 long fan today.

I used arctic silver 5, prepped everything, and when i turned on my computer... after the bios splash screen... black screen and fan error and computer automatically shut down... Usually the fan would spool up (my old one did) when you turn on the computer but this one was lifeless... It was a dead fan. I think was probably the first time i got a bad product from ebay...

Anyway, I plugged back my old shortfan one in... thought about it for a bit... took my computer apart again.

I said hey i should just be able to remove the fan and put it into the longfan heatsink... whoa no screws, it was press fitted into the heatsink, there was no way i could remove it... then i figured... i have the longfan and it could cover the gpu. So why not!!! (better than nothing)

I improvised with a bunch of needle files i bought for 5 bucks which i was going to use to file something else... here are the pictures:


Here the shortfan stock is on the bottom


close up on the longfan severed


installed

It actually worked:

CPU 27°C (0x78)
APS 33°C (0x79)
PCM 26°C (0x7a)
GPU 38°C (0x7b)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)
XC3 0°C (0xc3)

Should work for now... I think i might keep this like this... i will buy copper sheets and connect the two pieces with the screws first.

[Temetka]

Very interesting and creative to say the least.

[FTC]

Hi,

Just for the record. Note that leaving the unit like that is very dangerous, since both hs pieces are not connected and the one over the graphics core is very likely to overheat since there is no way it can free up all the accumulated heat... other than by convection, which is *by far* too slow. You really need to connect both pieces with some copper and good thermal compound... of course it is better than having nothing over the core, but not that better. If you want to test it, run ATITOOL 'scan for artifacts' test a few minutes or something graphically intensive and you will see your GPU temps skyrocket...

Now, if this ever happen to you again, note that yo *CAN* move the fan from the non working unit to the working one quite easily. Follow this thread :

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ght=oiling

and you will see some pictures of the process... (even if at that time I used the wrong oil).

[Troels]

Haha
Sorry... i just think you should've considered how heat pipes work before breaking it.
This will be better than nothing, but i fear that it still isn't enough now to cool it down under intensive 3d work.

[Jiro]

Thanks FTC!

ahh i didn't think it was possible at the time and i only had a set of jewelers screw drivers so when i did tried to pry it, it almost seemed destructive, like i would bend the heatsink. Anyway thin copper sheets are pretty easy to find, i do have some thermal compound also and i was wondering if i should solder the piece on...

melting point of solder should be high enough to withstand the heat from the heatsink i think. If solder was to melt inside the TP that would be so bad hahaha....

Let this be a lesson to all that the fan is removable and you dont have to do this...

[gunston]

wow,
what a modified broken Long fan,
in fact, i don't think it would improve the cooling effect especially on the GPU area!!!!

[bontistic]

I'd say save yourself from trouble in the future by getting another long fan.

By the way, I had the same palm rest creaking problem with a T42, never got to fix it though. Probably left out a part uninstalled. Any ideas anyone?

[agarza]

Creative idea, but there's simple not heat transfer between the torn 2 pieces of cooper. 10min ago my T42p GPU overheat when playing NFS Porsche Unleashed (just made the thread). It's starting the ambient temp to rise to the point of 30C+ in my bedroom. Pity, even though I replaced stock goop with Zalman's grease.

[mitchellst]

If you're still under warranty, I can probably ship you a long fan.

The creaking palmrest comes from the plastic piece that is under the palmrest that lays over the hard drive bay. You can see the corner of it in your first picture. The speaker wires run right by it. I couldn't find a practical way to fix it. It's definitely a design flaw.

[bontistic]

It's definitely a design flaw.

I previously had a T42 that didn't exhibit this problem. Do you think there could be a different part that can replace it?

[mitchellst]

Ya know... I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever had to replace that part on a thinkpad. They're not really proned to breaking. I can say that I haven't ever noticed a visibly different part in a machine either, so I doubt it.