T42 indeed not supported for RnR 4.0

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dcouzin · #1 Post by **dcouzin** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:54 pm

If your T42 is like mine, DON'T try upgrading to Rescue and Recovery 4.0. The T42 is not on the list of supported systems. RnR 4.0 will install correctly, and will make backups, but when I tried restoring to a backup it didn't work. Also reaching the recovery partition didn't work. And I couldn't reinstall RnR 3.1 after RnR 4.0.

#2 Post by **richk** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:16 pm

It might be more complicated than "doesn't work". If you get a new copy of the factory restore CDs, they use a different way to store the recovery stuff and diagnostics on the disk. It is more like what they use on T43, and no longer uses the hidden protected area that T40/41/42 used to use. I built my T42 with the later disks, but I wasn't curious enough to risk screwing things up. If I were betting, I would bet that R&R v4 would work with that.

dcouzin · #3 Post by **dcouzin** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:06 pm

richk, thank you for your insight.

So there are T42's and T42's. Mine was bought from IBM in December 2004, and since they supplied no recovery disks I immediately made my own set (which I've used twice since). My hard drive had a 4.5 GB hidden partition, which the recovery disks copied and then recreate.

IBM in December 2004 thought it was nice to have the facility to return the hard drive to its factory contents without recourse to external media. It saves about an hour in the recovery process and eliminates the suspense of the disk-after-disk method. However, we know that recovery from the safe partition doesn't always work. The disk set still has use.

Are you saying that soon after my T42, T4x's were set up without the recovery partition? I wouldn't regret the loss of an undependable recovery method and the gain of 4.5 GB of disk space.

Are you also saying that recovery disk sets supplied later by Lenovo for IBM T42's eliminate the recovery partition? That would be bold of Lenovo, since users expect recovery to factory state to be exactly that, for better or for worse. What else does Lenovo update in their recovery disk sets for a T42? Most users would welcome their bundling the 80+ updates to XP, but for some users this would cause trouble.

You explained why R&R 4.0 couldn't reach the recovery partition of my T42 (which still had one, as probably is typical for T42's). That R&R 4.0 also couldn't restore my system to its own saved backup is a mystery. Since R&R 3.1 isn't reinstallable after R&R 4.0 installation, I'm happy I posted the warning.

#4 Post by **richk** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:52 pm

No. They have a recovery partition, but it is stored in a different way. The T30's and before had a partition that you could actually see using standard tools. The T40/41/42 machines came with a process called the HPA (hidden protected area). The disk was modified to report back to the OS that it was smaller than it actually was and the recovery stuff was put in the place that "no longer existed". You could actually get it back with available tools. I got a new set of T42 recovery disks and they seem to no longer use the HPA concept.

mattster · #5 Post by **mattster** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:13 pm

richk: You are exactly right about that. The move was made from the HPA, which if I remember correctly was a small recovery partition with linux underneath it, to using the Windows Pre-Desktop Area. This was done to support more advanced functionality that was being implemented in Rescue and Recovery.

dcouzin: You may want to look into get a set of recovery cd's from Lenovo for your system. They should be able to provide the latest set, and if memory is correct, it will be the ones with the Windows PDA area instead of the HPA. Once you receive the discs, you should completely wipe the harddrive. To completely kill the HPA, you will need to disable the BIOS protection, kill the HDD and then re-enable the setting in the BIOS. Once you do that, you should be able to restore from the new discs and it will build the new type Service Partition for you ......

Good luck!!

dcouzin · #6 Post by **dcouzin** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:14 am

mattster, thanks for this info. Last week I restored using the original disk set, and now I have R&R 3.1 functioning. I guess people prefer R&R 4.0 to R&R 3.1, but is there more reason than that to get rid of IBM's HPA setup in favor of Lenovo's Windows PDA setup?

I am coming to agree with others that the whole idea of having the factory restore onboard is silly. In the event of needing factory restore, the CDs work as well, requiring perhaps one hour longer. Factory restore is not something you need "on the road".

R&R 2.0 disappointed me when it failed to restore my system to a saved backup. Maybe R&R 3.1 will be better. Maybe R&R 4.0 (which I can't use) is better yet. But are we all using R&R just because it is free and belongs to our ThinkPad? I'm now toying with straight-cloning my C:\ using SelfImage v1.2 (freeware) running from BartPE (freeware). It takes less than 1 minute per GB. There is none of the rigamarole of R&R, and hopefully through simplicity there is safety.

coloradoz · #7 Post by **coloradoz** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:43 am

I wish I had seen this post earlier. I 'upgraded' to RnR 4 and cant' get back to RnR 3.1 - is there a way to do this without flatting the drive? An error message (25021) complains about the RnR workspace changing and simply won't procede. Funnier yet, when I upgraded, I remembered seeing the T42 on the list (and it isn't there now). The installer allowed an upgrade from RnR 3.1 to 4 even though Client Security is a V7. Now after wanting RnR 3.1 back, I uninstalled v4 and when I want to reinstall V4 it now won't procede unless Client Security is at V8.

Anyone out there know how to get the installer to rebrand the RnR workspace so that RnR 3.1 will install?

#8 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:39 am

dcouzin wrote:So there are T42's and T42's. Mine was bought from IBM in December 2004, and since they supplied no recovery disks I immediately made my own set (which I've used twice since). My hard drive had a 4.5 GB hidden partition, which the recovery disks copied and then recreate.

Yes, apparently there are T42's and T42's. My T42 has the newer 4.55 GB hidden partition. Ken Fox reported that his T42 came with a 500 MB hidden partition.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=239399

Regarding upgrading RnR, I personally don't recommend it for the following reason (I am pretty sure the following applies to version 4.0 as well):

Lenovo wrote:Any machine that has IBM Rescue and Recovery with Rapid Restore Ultra 1.0 or IBM Rescue and Recovery 2.0 factory preloaded, then installs Rescue and Recovery 3.0, will lose the ability to have Rescue and Recovery installed on the machine after a Restore to Factory contents action is selected when booting from the computer's hard drive.

Other caveats are listed on the following web page: Rescue and Recovery 4.0 - Considerations

dcouzin · #9 Post by **dcouzin** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:55 pm

coloradoz, as of April 1, I'm sure T42 wasn't among the supported systems for R&R 4.0, so I can't blame Lenovo. It would have been nice if Lenovo warned that it would be impossible to reinstall an earlier R&R -- I can't see that warning in Lenovo's "consideration" copied in GomJabbar's post or in any of their long list at GomJabbar's link. You can be sure that Lenovo won't help you with this one.
The only reason to wipe your drive now is that R&R 4.0 sits uselessly on it. Some good ideas on backing up are found on Ken Fox's posts in http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=. Unless you need the onboard backup capability of R&R, you can find other zero cost solutions between XP's own backups and partition imaging freeware.

If you do wipe your drive, you can install R&R 3.1 next time. It does work with our T42.

T42 indeed not supported for RnR 4.0

T42 indeed not supported for RnR 4.0

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