Urgent Help needed with T42p 15" UXGA purchase

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misterpeachy · #1 Post by **misterpeachy** » Sun May 23, 2004 1:04 am

Hey everyone --

I just purchased a new Thinkpad t42p 15" model equipped with a FireGL T2 card for a very cheap $2,400 (through MIT). However, I'm starting to have some serious apprehensions about the resolution and thus am on the fence about cancelling the order while I can. I'm 17, and have perfect vision. My old laptop was a Vaio Z1 running 1400x1280 on a 14.1" SXGA+, and while icons and text were definitely smaller, it was still plenty readable. After doing some research, I'm hearing a lot of people say that the 15"-1600x1200 combo makes text and icons very difficult to see. I really want the extra screen space, but not at the cost of tweaking XP to make icons or dpi bigger. Can anyone who has used a 15" UXGA LCD tell me how bad a problem this is for someone with excellent eyesight? Is it really something excrutiatingly small, and are many internet websites completely illegible? UXGA 15"inchers are somewhat common nowadays, so I'm wondering if this is a serious problem, or if it just depends on the user's eyesight.
On another note, how does the FireGL T2 128MB card hold up game wise? By games I would mean The Sims, Half Life 2, and perhaps some UT2004 now and then. FireGL T2 is DX9.0b compatible, yes?

Thanks!

-Mike M.

Lmax · #2 Post by **Lmax** » Sun May 23, 2004 1:28 am

misterpeachy wrote:On another note, how does the FireGL T2 128MB card hold up game wise? By games I would mean The Sims, Half Life 2, and perhaps some UT2004 now and then. FireGL T2 is DX9.0b compatible, yes?

Don't know about the UXGA 15 inchers as I don't use them and have only seen them on occasion. I have good eyesight but would rather not loose it due to tiny text

. Anyway, I do have the FireGL T2 in my T41p and it is plenty good for those games I am sure, haven't played them on there but the 3D performance is high. Yes it is DX9 compatible and runs with it fine, the GL in FireGL comes from the fact that it's drivers and design are optimized for OpenGL 3D work. Does this mean it is crappy at direct 3D for games? No, it will perform high there too.

I am not much of a gamer, on laptops at least, but the vid card is a high performance one that should handle most games fine.

BTW, unfortunately Conmee (see his T42 15" review on this forum) says the 15" screen produces pretty bad ghosting. This would be bad for your games because it would cause fast moving objects to leave a trail, kinda ugly. This is due to the FlexView's slower response time. Nevertheless, you could always get the computer, try it out, and if you don't like it return and exchange for another model.

Max

misterpeachy · #3 Post by **misterpeachy** » Sun May 23, 2004 1:51 am

Thanks for the reply. That brings me to another point...what's IBM's return policy? If I order one from them, and the 15" just isn't cutting it, can I return it for a full credit and get another model? Or once it's opened, does it depriciate a lot?

-MM

#4 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun May 23, 2004 3:42 am

yes you can..
within the first 30 days..

orange · #5 Post by **orange** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:52 am

I'm 19 and in college too (freshman Stanford)...

i've owned a couple notebooks with high-res screens:

1) (current) compaq evo n600c, 14.1" sxga+
2) (sold) ibm thinkpad a21p 15" uxga

my vision isn't perfect, and i can/could read both screens without glasses on. i imagine you'll be doing a good bit of programming if you're going to mit, and believe me, the extra resolution will be a godsend. i like my evo's screen, but if i could afford it (the evo cost me only $850 fully loaded more than a year ago as it was refurbished directly from hp--good deal), i'd happily go back to a 15" uxga screen. sxga+ is nice, but uxga is better, if you have good vision.

jpresto · #6 Post by **jpresto** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:11 am

The 15" UXGA is the same as the one on the current R50, correct? May be worth posting the question over in the R forum to see if they have any input. Keep us posted.. j

Udayan · #7 Post by **Udayan** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:03 am

I used to have a Dell Inspiron 8100 with a 1600X1200 15" display. The screen real estate was priceless (I'm now working on 1024X768) and everything displayed fine except for the text. The way to solve this problem and make UXGA worthwhile is simple -- increase the font size under display settings, advanced, and set font size to something bigger than 96dpi -- experiment with what is best. There is no loss of clarity or performance caused by increasing the DPI. However, I'm not sure whether I would go for the t42p because of the ghosting problem. I agree with Max's strategy -- try it out and if you don't like it return it. Good luck.

misterpeachy · #8 Post by **misterpeachy** » Sun May 23, 2004 2:26 pm

Thanks,

Only problem is I'm ordering it from a special Education/Government discount distributor, and they don't allow computer returns I believe (if I read their policy correctly) since they give well over $1,000 discounts on the thinkpads. So I have one shot.

-MM

#9 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun May 23, 2004 2:45 pm

misterpeachy wrote:Thanks,

Only problem is I'm ordering it from a special Education/Government discount distributor, and they don't allow computer returns I believe (if I read their policy correctly) since they give well over $1,000 discounts on the thinkpads. So I have one shot.

-MM

i see.. there is a joker in the deck..

akerman · #10 Post by **akerman** » Sun May 23, 2004 3:05 pm

I can only advise you to be very careful in your considerations. Before my current SXGA+ 14.1", which fits me perfectly, I had a WSXGA+ 15.4" - which I think is in between the 14.1" sxga+ and the 15" uxga in terms of pixel density.
While I was very thrilled with the resolution, it was just a teeny tiny bit too small. I could read what it said on the screen, but I had to try just that extra 5% harder than on my desktop monitor. It's really hard to explain.. but everytime I used it, there would be this constant nagging voice in my head "if only the resolution were a tiny bit smaller, then it would really be perfect". In the end it just drove me completely mad, and I returned it

Best thing would be to go see a 15" UXGA, and use it for a couple of hours.

#11 Post by **erik** » Tue May 25, 2004 4:49 pm

i've used the 15" uxga screen for 3.5 years and wouldn't go back to sxga+. my first uxga screen was on an A22p purchased early in 2001 and in november 2003 i upgraded to the R50p with flexview uxga. i use this screen for at least 8-10 hours every day. heck, i code xhtml, css, and asp.net via notepad using lucida console 8pt text without any problems.

just like you, i was worried about uxga back when i ordered my A22p. now i can't live without it.

-erik

Mofongo · #12 Post by **Mofongo** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:17 pm

My heart really sinks whenever I see people choosing lower quality monitors with lower pixel density because they are "more readable". When is the last time you bought a printer and choose the 200 dpi model over the 600 dpi one in order to make the printouts more readable? When is that last time somebody said, "I prefer to read documents printed at 200 dpi because that larger text just makes everything so much easier to read than that when its printed at 600 dpi."

You can set windows to use "larger" fonts (i.e. ones that span more pixels) and "larger" icons. Nearly any appication (e.g. a development environment) will have similar options within it. The unfortunate biggie that does not have adjustable fonts is Explorer (boo on Microsoft), but if you switch to Mozilla or Thunderbird, you can scale up the sizes of fonts on webpages at the tough of a button.

The most important factor in eyestrain is not the size of the characters, but the quality of rendering. Therefore, it will cause much less strain on your eyes to have a UXGA screen with a "larger" font selected than an XGA or SXGA+ screen with the normal font selected. So if you are concerned about your eyesight, you should get a UXGA screen and put up with the minor annoyance of scaling up font sizes.

Now right about now, somebody will chime in with how scaling up font sizes never actually works. I am not sure what they were doing or what OS they were using, but I regularly use XP and Linux and I have not had any real problems doing this within either one.

Mofongo

cynic · #13 Post by **cynic** » Wed May 26, 2004 12:35 am

Mofongo, you're leaving out the consideration of rasterized graphics. They don't scale... this is especially true of websites. You can scale the fonts, but the graphics remain the same (true also for flash-based pages)

The printer analogy is incorrect in that the higher dpi adds to the precision of the same image since it is in essence vectored until the compositing engine. This is not true of the GDI+ setup in Windows. Hopefully, Longhorn will actually come through with near end-to-end vectoring. Until then, I can understand people's concerns.

(I still like high-resolution screens; the higher the better for me. However I have much better than 20/20 eyesight... I wouldn't want to put my parents through the same thing or even some of my slightly older siblings who didn't get my eyesight)

csv96 · #14 Post by **csv96** » Wed May 26, 2004 12:43 am

LiquidView (http://personalcomputing.portrait.com/u ... rview.html) solves the scaling issue. LiquidSurf (http://personalcomputing.portrait.com/u ... rview.html) works for webpages.

lilserenity · #15 Post by **lilserenity** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:41 am

And to think there was a time I got sick and tired of using my Amiga 500 and SAS/C at 640x256 on a TV....

Still hoping to get an SXGA based T40; now that I have the funds. But a seriously cheap XGA T40 could sway me...

Vicky

cynic · #16 Post by **cynic** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:08 am

csv96 wrote:LiquidView (http://personalcomputing.portrait.com/u ... rview.html) solves the scaling issue. LiquidSurf (http://personalcomputing.portrait.com/u ... rview.html) works for webpages.

Close, but they still aren't very good. The LiquidSurf program doesn't handle a lot of embedded items (including flash.) LiquidView has poor anti-aliasing issues--it's in essence using registry hacks through a friendly GUI shell program; X-Pro setup gives you the same control for free. Both are still beholden to the inadequacies of the current screen-drawing technology that is integrated into the operating system.

feamster · #17 Post by **feamster** » Wed May 26, 2004 7:01 am

Where can this xpro be found? Thanks.

Conmee · #18 Post by **Conmee** » Wed May 26, 2004 8:20 am

Feamster,

I think he means WinXP Pro....

jiangy · #19 Post by **jiangy** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:17 am

I'm also in the market for a t42p and noticed that you got one with a massive discount through MIT. Can you give me the website or the address of where I should go to get this discount? Also, any other pertinent information would be greatly appreciated. I also sent you a pm

Thanks

cynic · #20 Post by **cynic** » Fri May 28, 2004 3:47 am

jiangy wrote:I'm also in the market for a t42p and noticed that you got one with a massive discount through MIT. Can you give me the website or the address of where I should go to get this discount? Also, any other pertinent information would be greatly appreciated. I also sent you a pm

Thanks

I believe that's a school discount which would only be available if you are a member of the school.

jjfcpa · #21 Post by **jjfcpa** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:27 am

Misterpreachy

I hope this information will help you.

I currently have a T41p and an R50p sitting at home gathering dust. They are both adequate machines, but I've had issues with both of them. Nothing serious, but in my line of work (software development), I'm glued to my laptop all day and most of the night.

Since your concern is with the resolution, I'm going to limit my discussion to that topic only.

The T41p is 1400 X 1050 and to use it I didn't have to increase the fonts at all. It was very comfortable. I"m in my mid 50's and although I wear glasses, I wouldn't say my eyesight requires any special consideration.

When I got the R50p, I thought the 1600 X 1200 UXGA resolution was going to be a godsend because of the extra real estate. I use a 21.1 inch LCD at the office that has 1600 X 1200 resolution. Unfortunately, I really didn't care for the screen. I increased the fonts and it seemed as though it was still too small... I found myself straining sometime to see things clearly. I also felt that the screen was not very bright - contrastwise.

I purchased an HP nc8000 with the 1600 X 1200 resolution for a store that I own and I found that it was not only brighter, but much easier to use with the same font setting. I felt the HP screen was superior to the IBM screen.

Incidentally, the T41p, in my opinion, suffers from the same problem as the R50p, it's not very contrasty and make it difficult to distinguish certain characters after extended use.

I subsequently purchase a Dell M60 with the 1920 X 1200 screen. Of course I was concerned that I might have a great deal of difficulty using this 15.4 widescreen laptop with an acceptable font setting. Anyhow, I am using large fonts with the Dell and I'm simply amazed at the clarity of the LCD. The HP is closest to it and if I didn't really like the widescreen, I'd opt for an HP nc8000 with the UXGA screen.

Although the idea of having a T42 with the 15" screen sounds wonderful (light weight, great keyboard, good ergonomics), I spend way too much time looking at the LCD to worry about a couple of pounds. The keyboard on the IBM's are unmatched by any other vendor... especially, the trackpoint (which I love). However, I've adjusted to the keyboard on the Dell nicely and am starting to appreciate the slightly large keys (flat surface on top) to the IBM's. It has both the trackpoint and touchpad, but the trackpoint really is not very good. Takes some serious getting used to.

The keyboad on the HP was very good and it also has the trackpoint and the touchpad. It's trackpoint was not any better than the Dell's though.

I hope this helps you with your decision and just so you know, you've got a great price on a great laptop. The only adage is still true, "you can't go wrong recommending IBM", at least when it comes to laptops.

Best John

Urgent Help needed with T42p 15" UXGA purchase

Urgent Help needed with T42p 15" UXGA purchase

Re: Urgent Help needed with T42p 15" UXGA purchase

Xpro?

I hope I can offer some help.

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