Dark gray spot (dead pixels???) on my 15" Flexview

[hapzunglam]

I have a fairly new T42 with the 15" flexview.

I just noticed a dark gray spot in the middle of the screen. It looks like a dirty spot, but it's not dirt. It's the size of about 4-6 pixels custered together. Quite large. It's gray. What can it be? Dead pixels? All together?

Really annoying as it looks like sensor dust when I'm editing photos in photoshop, but it's not, it's just a dark/dirty spot on the screen.

[Skywing]

is it possible that the trackpoint irritated the screen? do you ever leave it in a bag with heavy books on top of it?

[Conmee]

The Trackpoint would especially make sense if you're using the tip with the little 'pricklies' on them... lol... they would make a cluster of 4-6 'spots' if they touched the screen...

Daniel.

[hapzunglam]

interesting thought. but it's not the trackpoint. i measured. it's not where the trackpoint would touch the screen. it's about 3 inches above and 1/2 inch to the right.

plus i tried cleaning the screen already. can't get rid of it. though it definitely looks like some sort of dirt, but the screen is clean.......

[ll357355]

Water my have gotten into the screen and dried up...

[schUsseln]

I'm having a similar problem - I've got ~35 small (<= 1mm) gray spots distributed about 2-inches on either side of where the trackpoint would be. There's no consistent pattern to suggest keyboard marks, etc. And they can't be removed by cleaning the screen, they really do appear to be *inside* the display.

If it were water, it doesn't make sense to me that it would have spread only to the center of the display.

I called IBM, and they're sending out the box. The support guy said it's hard to figure out what the problem is from the description, but that the techs might determine it's damage (esp. from pressure).

I'll update when I hear back from IBM. But I'm really hoping I don't have to replace the screen on my own coin!

[toriburu]

I have the same "dirty spots" on my 15 inch flex view also. they all seem to be on the right side of the screen within 2 inches of the side

[UCI2CI]

try rubbing the dead pixels with a Q-tip. some people say that gets rid of "stuck" pixels. Another possibility is that its rubbed off the anti-reflective coating on the FlexView, but i doubt it would be as noticeable as you describe. I think if the dead pixels are close together and in the center of the screen, IBM would replace it. Call tech support anyways and find out. If the first guy you talk to give you [censored], call again and hopefully youll connect to a decent person.

[Leon]

"rubbing the dead pixels with a Q-tip"?........ my thinkad is blushing..

[schUsseln]

So, I have this sneaking suspicion that one of the shop guys reads this forum...if so, HI!

Anyway, the techs ran a battery of tests...which as far as I can tell are photometric measurements across the display and using a series of color displays...looking for MURA, or LCD imperfections.

Apparently my display shows signs of warping, and is just beyond threshold for repair (on IBM's apparently arbitrary scale). Which is a bummer, since the problem has gotten worse since I noticed it (some 5 months ago) and they probably would have replaced the display if I had sent it in immediately. Now the replacement cost (through IBM) is about $900 and an LCD on its own (through random web resellers) is minimum $600-. Crappy

So take note, if you've got these spots, and plan on sending your machine in, do it now, before the problem gets any worse!

Anyway, I'm sitting on the whole thing for now (since it's bearable,) and if I do replace the LCD, it may likely be outside of IBM, and probably not for a while.

The grey spots, by the way, were labeled by the tech guy as MURA, which is wholly meaningless. He went on to say they were cell gap closures. This is where the back of the LCD came, at some point, to touch the front, squeezing the cell (where the actual LC hangs out). After that, the physics are beyond me, but needless to say, it results in a small grey spot.

Good luck to those who are afflicted!

[NathanA]

Apparently my display shows signs of warping, and is just beyond threshold for repair (on IBM's apparently arbitrary scale). [...] The grey spots, by the way, were labeled by the tech guy as MORA, which is wholly meaningless. He went on to say they were cell gap closures. This is where the back of the LCD came, at some point, to touch the front, squeezing the cell (where the actual LC hangs out). After that, the physics are beyond me, but needless to say, it results in a small grey spot.

Fascinating. I would like to know more about this in case my screen ever suffers the same fate.

First, I am unable to find ANYTHING about LCD "MORA" through Googling...was this something that the tech verbally told you over the phone, or was it written/printed out when they returned the laptop to you? Maybe it's a term used only internally by IBM/Solectron techs? I wonder if there is another name for the same phenomena that I can key off of in a search?

Second, it seems kinda suspect to me that IBM would refuse to replace the LCD for you and that there could possibly be a "threshold" beyond which they are unwilling to repair the problem under warranty. Unless they can claim and somehow prove that the problem was caused by you through mishandling of the ThinkPad, I don't see on what basis they can refuse you warranty service; if the screen is defective, they should replace it!! It doesn't matter if it is getting progressively worse because the condition, unless we're missing part of the story here, was caused by a manufacturing defect, no?

I'd get on their case about that if I were you, personally.

-- Nathan

[schUsseln]

yeah,

Funny, but the tech actually said "so, how much do you know about mura?"

I replied in an obvious manner...

I'm having a hard time googling it too, I guess I must have lucked out this am, and hit the right combination to get a few sites mentioning it. I'd play around longer tonight, but it's getting late, and I need to hit the sack.

Nonetheless, it seems that while relativley obscure, the term "mura" is one used in the field of LCD optics / design. In fact, I believe I stumbeld across a patent for a machine similar to the one that rejected my display! I'll give google another shot in the am.

To more directly answer your question though, it's something the tech told me over the phone (so I don't know correct spelling, but the few links I found earlier said "MURA", one claimed it was a transliteration from Japanese) I actually don't have my laptop back yet.

I agree completley on the second point - but to be totally objective, neither I, nor IBM, know if the condition is from mishandling or defect - they're just going with what their system considers damage.

I'm sure I will get on their case, and thanks for the encouragement

[schUsseln]

First, I am unable to find ANYTHING about LCD "MORA" through Googling...

So I must have been extremely tired...

So tired that I didn't even notice my own typo. Indeed it's "MURA" not "MORA"!

I've changed my previous posts, and sorry for the confusion!

Google returns about 5000 hits for "LCD MURA".

[schUsseln]

Just got the machine back, and there's a twist to the story!

Opened the box to see a loose screw sitting on top of the foam padding - no idea where it goes, but it looks like a display screw.

Pull the machine out, and see that two of the display's screw covers are missing (but screws are in their holes).

Open the machine up and discover a ton of fingerprints, two splotches of white GOO! and two splotches of clear goo!

But the best...I turn the machine on, and oooh - red lines everywhere! Blue ghosting on image edges! Scrolling lines!

So, my machine got effed up (bad) somewhere on it's trip to the depot. It's hard then to tell if the grey spots were what caused my display to fail the MURA tests, and this all happened afterward - or if it was all this that caused the poor diagnosis in the first place.

Anyway, the problem is hardly "bearable" anymore - so getting on IBM's case has moved up in priority...I'm actually on the phone with them right now.

Sad, I've loved IBM customer support until this incident. Now I'm seeing sody workmanship, poor communication (I've called like 10 numbers now...might as well be DELL!) - and shirking of responsibility. The woman I'm talking to now says they'll "fix the screws, and caps, gel and fingerprints" but will CHARGE ME to fix the LCD.

WHAT?!?

I'm certainly not settling for that, so I'm sure there's more to the story. But [censored]!

Pictures, if you're interested:
Goo!



Original Gray Spots (still there


Goo fingerprints and blue lines


Missing screw caps


Red lines (the circle is the camera flash w/ a finger covering it)

[schUsseln]

A month later, I finally have my machine back up and running.

After getting the thing back in awful shape, and sending it off to the depot again, I quickly got stuck an endless chain of "escalations" from office-to-office, without anyone wanting to take blame or culpability.

Having a rather terse conversation with the tech guy for depot billing, where he spelled out the fact that I had, essentially, no hope of getting my T42 back to the shape it was in before this whole thing started, I wrote a descriptive email “to” Sam Palmisano. Meanwhile, I was escalated again, from billing, to Customer Relations.

A couple days later I heard back from a guy in Executive Relations, and when we finally got in touch with one another, he said that he’d spoken with the repair facility, and that they would replace the LCD free-of-charge, and if it wasn’t in good shape when I got it back, that I’d be sending it in to the IBM shop in North Carolina…

About a week later, the machine was still idle, so I got in contact with the same guy again, and he got the ball rolling for real this time (claiming dropped communication).

About that same time, I finally got the call back from Customer Relations, ready to run with the ball….sheesh (a WEEK!)

So, now I’ve got my machine back, no goo, no missing screws, no red-lines, no MURA (presumably) and ironically, no gray-dots either! I do have 1 dead pixel, but it’s in the lower right of the display, so I’m not too stressed about it.

And I’m not about to push my luck with the depot once again!

So, lesson learned – next time, take your machine to a walk-in service center, where you can hold people MUCH MORE accountable, and can get your stuff back in less than a month.

Otherwise, if you’re getting the run-around, get to the top ASAP.

Thanks go out to all those here that suggested sending emails to the CEO, it is VERY good advice.

[dfumento]

I'm extremely sorry you had so much trouble.

Speaking for myself, I've been a Thinkpad owner for five years.

I had one system board go on me. IBM overnighted a box, I packed it up, and had the laptop back within 2-3 days.
Another time, a mini-PCI card stopped working. They overnighted me the replacement.
On my T42 they overnighted me the Thai Keyboard and the Recovery disks.