Which of these thermal pastes should I use?

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fatbhoy · #1 Post by **fatbhoy** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:48 pm

Can anyone help me:

Shin-Etsu MicroSi’s X23-7783D product offering utilizes fillers that have a controlled diameter. The smaller diameter filler allows the material to achieve thinner bondlines. For best results, this material should be used in applications where the “hills and valleys” of the mating surfaces are minimal.

Shin-Etsu X23-7762. Good for general applications. More forgiving in situations where the heatsink block is not a perfect finish.

Both have similar thermal properties, but which should I use? Apparently the thinner one (the former) is easier to apply. I'm going to use the paste on the CPU and the GPU, at least.

#2 Post by **carbon_unit** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:10 pm

I suppose it depends on whether you lapped the heatsink or not. I'd use the regular stuff (X23-7762) if you are not lapping anything.

Edited to clarify "regular stuff"

fatbhoy · #3 Post by **fatbhoy** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:33 pm

What do you mean by lapped?

fatbhoy · #4 Post by **fatbhoy** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:33 pm

Thanks for the rely, but what do you mean by lapped?

#5 Post by **carbon_unit** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:00 pm

Lapped means you take a perfectly flat surface (lapping plate) and some very fine sandpaper and smooth and straighten the mating surfaces of the heatsink and CPU until they are both perfect mirrors...or at least as close as you can get it.
It is time consuming and requires skill and patience to do it right. If done wrong you would be better off to have not done it at all as you could ruin the parts by doing it wrong.
If done correctly you get a litle bit better heat transfer for a lot of work.

agarza · #6 Post by **agarza** » Sat May 26, 2007 12:27 am

You should go for the X23! Is supposedly the best thermal paste

Thermal Compound Shootout

I don't know if lapping a thinkpad heatsink would see significant temp drops, however using the X23 assures you are using the best heat conductivity thermal paste ever made. I thought of buying some, but is expensive since I need it to be shipped outside US.

Good Luck if you find it. Maybe you could later report your laptop temperatures before and after thermal change.

fatbhoy · #7 Post by **fatbhoy** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:53 am

@carbon_unit: Thanks for the information - that sound's like too much hard work for such potentially minimal gains.

@xtr: Thanks. Yeah, it's expensive and difficult to get, but I paid €3,500 for the machine so in that perspective if it prolongs the life of it it's not too expensive!

I downloaded the NHC and TPFanControl programs. I've ThinkPad Power Control application and driver installed and running. I assume that I should use either NHC or ThinkPad Power Control but not both. I haven't used TPFanControl yet - I'm a little scared of it and need to read the quite complicated readme that comes with it first.

I haven't studied my temperatures too closely, except for when playing games. My temps are:

@800MHz/0.938V - 43°C to 48°C.
@2260MHz/1.25V - 63°C to 83°C (when <10% CPU load to 100% CPU load)

The 83°C temperature arises when playing games with the GPU set to max via the ATI PowerPlay applet in Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > PowerPlay.

So, I was thinking of doing the thermal paste thing first and seeing what happens to the temperatures, then doing the NHC/TPFanControl thing and possibly undervolting the CPU.

Any comments are very welcome.

P.S. I understand that the Pentium M is designed to reach 100°C or thereabouts. My BIOS has a shutdown function that kicks-in at 91°C I think.

agarza · #8 Post by **agarza** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:18 am

You can use the NHC/TP Fan Control duo at the same type with no problem. Supposedly NHC can also manage fan speeds, but I have not know how to activate it.

I suggest you first undervolt your CPU to about 1.052V and see the which load temp you get. However, I see your temps are quite high, mainly because of your processor Speed.

BIOS shutdown temp should be 100 to both CPU and GPU, however I've seen T60 users get their GPU temp up to 114C and the machine till running

#9 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:31 am

fatbhoy wrote:@carbon_unit: Thanks for the information - that sound's like too much hard work for such potentially minimal gains.

It's one of those things to squeeze out the last little bit of performace when every little bit counts.

fatbhoy · #10 Post by **fatbhoy** » Sat May 26, 2007 8:10 am

You can use the NHC/TP Fan Control duo at the same type with no problem.

I was talking about NHC running alongside ThinkPad Power Control. One of them has to go!

It's one of those things to squeeze out the last little bit of performace when every little bit counts.

I understand.

dcouzin · #11 Post by **dcouzin** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:07 pm

You might consider mere flattening, without smoothing. The lapping described by carbon_unit seems overkill if X23-7783D requires only that hills and valleys be "minimal". A piece of #400 wettable sandpaper clinging to a fairly flat support (e.g. smooth formica table) can then substitute for carbon_unit's suggestion. Even this might be more than you need for X23-7783D. It is regrettable that Shin-Etsu didn't state a particle diameter.

fatbhoy · #12 Post by **fatbhoy** » Sat May 26, 2007 3:25 pm

Thanks dcouzin, I might try that. I've yet to get the stuff though - maybe in a week I'll have it. I've got to buy it from the U.K. or U.S.A, and I'm in Ireland.

I'll try the paste first with lapping, test the temperatures, and then install the TPFanControl and NHC.

I'll post the results here.

Can anyone comment on whether I should uninstall ThinkPad Power Control (see the link in my second last post for a picture of what I'm talking about) before installing NHC?

agarza · #13 Post by **agarza** » Sat May 26, 2007 3:48 pm

I'm VERY unfamiliar with TP Power Manager. I never used it. I always wipe off the original software my new Thinkpad comes preinstalled with and just use what I need.
To me the combination of NHC / TP Fan Control is more than enough. I should say uninstall TP Power Manage and install NHC

fatbhoy · #14 Post by **fatbhoy** » Sat May 26, 2007 4:34 pm

Nice one xtr, thanks. I'll do that.

Paul Unger · #15 Post by **Paul Unger** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:18 pm

fatbhoy,

Take a look at this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=35380

There are instructions for running 'fan control' from w/in NHC. Hope it helps.

Paul

Temetka · #16 Post by **Temetka** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:37 pm

Great thread, very informative. Maybe my earlier problems with NHC were due to me running IBM's ACPI stuff alongside. Hmm...

fatbhoy · #17 Post by **fatbhoy** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:22 pm

Thanks Paul, looks like it'll be a a busy week ahead for me.

fatbhoy · #18 Post by **fatbhoy** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:15 am

Sorry for the time gap since last posting: I was away for a while.

I have the following stuff now:

Shin-Etsu X23 7783D Thermal Compound
Thermal Tapes 1"
Artic Silver thermal compound remover
Artic Silver purifier
Sandpaper (wet/dry) #400, #1000, #1200 (for lapping)

I was going to use the #1000 and #1200 paper only because I think the #400 would be too coarse. I'm going to read the following stuff before taking the machine apart later this week or next week:

Applying Shin-Etsu paste
ThinkPad and Artic Silver5
Tom's Hardware forum - Lapping (see first thread)

I've just two questions if anyone can help:

The GPU has thermal tape(s) attached, I believe. Has anyone got advice for applying my new tapes and how do I make sure that there's good contact between the GPU and the heatsink (someone talked about inserting a thin copper plate between the heatsink and the GPU)?

fatbhoy · #19 Post by **fatbhoy** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:12 pm

Err, well I did the job a while ago with these results:

The lapping thing didn't work out because I hadn't the right paper: need way finer than #1200 (like #3000).

I removed the thermal tape from between the GPU and the heatsink without replacing it with the new tape I'd bought, because there was a problem with the new tape.

Without the tape, there was a 1 - 2mm gap between the heatsink and GPU, which I filled with thermal paste (not an ideal solution).

I intend to get more paste, and a copper plate 1 - 2mm thick for the GPU-heatsink gap (or else some tape) and redo the whole lot again in the summer, and do the lapping too. I suspect that I've not really improved the temperatures, because the GPU sometimes runs as hot as 90 Centigrade when playing games.

If anyone has any suggestions as to where one can find a perfectly flat piece of copper, sized 25mm x 20mm x 1.5mm, I'd be very grateful.

Which of these thermal pastes should I use?

Which of these thermal pastes should I use?

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