T41 HD cloning w/Acronis: no luck, PITA
T41 HD cloning w/Acronis: no luck, PITA
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Help: Trying to clone new HD w/Acronis TI 9; no luck, PITA.
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I have a T41 [2373 RO3, WinXP] for which I want to replace the old 40gb HD w/a new Seagate Momentus ST9120822A [100GB, 5400rpm, PATA].
I've used Acronis 9.0[build 2,323] to backup to my shared network wifi drive here at home.
Now I've read here and other sites about the HPA area of the original IBM configured drives; all of that said, it seems a lot of users claim the the cloning of a new disk, HPA and all, should be easily accomplished with Acronis TI 9.
On the other hand, I also read through the 10 step process for cloning by creating a 5 gb partiton, creating a floppy boot disk [don't have a floppy drive anyway], etc, etc. I must have read throuhg at least 2 dozen threads of point-counterpoint on cloning a T41 HD w/or w/out the HPA, and I'm nauseous now. I bet everything on the simplest approach, that is Acronis TI 9 long ago, and now, it's not up to it either.
After checking that my new drive was present, through Settings, Control Panel, Admin Tools, Computer Mangmt, Disk Mangmt, the disk profiles show:
Disk 0, IBM_Preload [C:]
33.86 GB NTFS Healthy [system]
Disk 1, Unknown
111.79 GB unallocated
not initialized (and with a red circle and a white minus sign superimposed)
Well, I tried 'CLONE DISK' anyway just a while ago and here's how it went:
Specified Automatic mode, selected source and destination, s/w specified "Operation 1 of 2 [reboot required]
copying partition
Hard disk: 1->2
Vol Size: 33.86->111.8 gb"
Operation 2 of 2
Copying MBR
Hard disk: 1->2"
"Please click proceed to start"
After a while, it brings up an XP screen with the following:
"Acronis True Image
Analyzing Partitions
{###########} 100%
Locking Partitions
{###########} 100%
Error: Partition configuration has changed
press any key to reboot computer"
This activity took about 7 to 10 minutes, then a reboot.
After reboot, the same screen pops open and specifies
"Acronis True Image complete".
Then, I shut down, load the new HD into the T41 HD bay and voila,
nothing but : "OS cannot be found".
Apparently, it wrote nothing over and when I re-read the new HD via its USB caddy again, the Windows 'Disk Management' profile again specifies as above. 111.79 GB, unallocated, not initialized, etc, etc.
There must be a problem with AC TI 9 not being able to copy the HPA or ?
Reading the Seagate Momentus support doc., they specify that a free downloadable transfer utility, DiscWizard, be used and then reboot with Win O/S CD or with the system startup diskette and the Win CD loaded. Neither of which I have or intend to shell out anymore $$ to acquire.
I paid for the full Acronis 9.0 when I read so many good things about it, including how great it was at cloning, etc. I feel pretty 'hosed' now with a new $100 HD upgrade and s/w that can't deal with it. Almost ready to backup data only, sell the T41 and go with Fujitsu [wifes' Fujitsu has had various mail-in upgrades w/no labor charge over the last 5 years, and still pulling strong] or even Toshiba at this point.
Completely Frustrated after 2.5 hours of unsuccessful effort.
Patrick
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Help: Trying to clone new HD w/Acronis TI 9; no luck, PITA.
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I have a T41 [2373 RO3, WinXP] for which I want to replace the old 40gb HD w/a new Seagate Momentus ST9120822A [100GB, 5400rpm, PATA].
I've used Acronis 9.0[build 2,323] to backup to my shared network wifi drive here at home.
Now I've read here and other sites about the HPA area of the original IBM configured drives; all of that said, it seems a lot of users claim the the cloning of a new disk, HPA and all, should be easily accomplished with Acronis TI 9.
On the other hand, I also read through the 10 step process for cloning by creating a 5 gb partiton, creating a floppy boot disk [don't have a floppy drive anyway], etc, etc. I must have read throuhg at least 2 dozen threads of point-counterpoint on cloning a T41 HD w/or w/out the HPA, and I'm nauseous now. I bet everything on the simplest approach, that is Acronis TI 9 long ago, and now, it's not up to it either.
After checking that my new drive was present, through Settings, Control Panel, Admin Tools, Computer Mangmt, Disk Mangmt, the disk profiles show:
Disk 0, IBM_Preload [C:]
33.86 GB NTFS Healthy [system]
Disk 1, Unknown
111.79 GB unallocated
not initialized (and with a red circle and a white minus sign superimposed)
Well, I tried 'CLONE DISK' anyway just a while ago and here's how it went:
Specified Automatic mode, selected source and destination, s/w specified "Operation 1 of 2 [reboot required]
copying partition
Hard disk: 1->2
Vol Size: 33.86->111.8 gb"
Operation 2 of 2
Copying MBR
Hard disk: 1->2"
"Please click proceed to start"
After a while, it brings up an XP screen with the following:
"Acronis True Image
Analyzing Partitions
{###########} 100%
Locking Partitions
{###########} 100%
Error: Partition configuration has changed
press any key to reboot computer"
This activity took about 7 to 10 minutes, then a reboot.
After reboot, the same screen pops open and specifies
"Acronis True Image complete".
Then, I shut down, load the new HD into the T41 HD bay and voila,
nothing but : "OS cannot be found".
Apparently, it wrote nothing over and when I re-read the new HD via its USB caddy again, the Windows 'Disk Management' profile again specifies as above. 111.79 GB, unallocated, not initialized, etc, etc.
There must be a problem with AC TI 9 not being able to copy the HPA or ?
Reading the Seagate Momentus support doc., they specify that a free downloadable transfer utility, DiscWizard, be used and then reboot with Win O/S CD or with the system startup diskette and the Win CD loaded. Neither of which I have or intend to shell out anymore $$ to acquire.
I paid for the full Acronis 9.0 when I read so many good things about it, including how great it was at cloning, etc. I feel pretty 'hosed' now with a new $100 HD upgrade and s/w that can't deal with it. Almost ready to backup data only, sell the T41 and go with Fujitsu [wifes' Fujitsu has had various mail-in upgrades w/no labor charge over the last 5 years, and still pulling strong] or even Toshiba at this point.
Completely Frustrated after 2.5 hours of unsuccessful effort.
Patrick
If Acronis TI 9 has the option to create a Recovery or Bootable CD, do it and boot with it. Then re-try your clone operation without Windows involved.
What you tried did not show that the HPA would be copied .... and the bootable CD will not copy the HPA automatically either.
Like others, I don't bother with the HPA since it just wastes 5 - 7 GB of my hard drive. My full image copies on an external backup drive will get me going much faster than using the HPA and the HPA doesn't protect me from a hard drive failure.
If you want to keep the HPA on your new HDD, there are other threads on this forum that discuss the BIOS changes required to make the HPA un-hidden and therefore easily seen by the clone procedure. Then be sure to choose the Expert option during the clone process so that you can adjust the size of the new HPA, otherwise the new drive's free space will be allocated proportionately to both partitions and the new HPA will be 3 times it's original size (based on going from a 40GB drive to a 120GB drive).
What you tried did not show that the HPA would be copied .... and the bootable CD will not copy the HPA automatically either.
Like others, I don't bother with the HPA since it just wastes 5 - 7 GB of my hard drive. My full image copies on an external backup drive will get me going much faster than using the HPA and the HPA doesn't protect me from a hard drive failure.
If you want to keep the HPA on your new HDD, there are other threads on this forum that discuss the BIOS changes required to make the HPA un-hidden and therefore easily seen by the clone procedure. Then be sure to choose the Expert option during the clone process so that you can adjust the size of the new HPA, otherwise the new drive's free space will be allocated proportionately to both partitions and the new HPA will be 3 times it's original size (based on going from a 40GB drive to a 120GB drive).
This is just a guess on my part but did you format your new hard drive before trying to clone?
The message from "Disk Management" should show the total formatted space along with Format type such as NTFS rather than simply
It should read something like:
Disk 1, Findrivr (or whatever your volume label is) [F:] <- should be any other letter than [C:]
111.79 GB NTFS Healthy
I believe that all hard drives are shipped unformatted and must be formatted before they can be used.
The message from "Disk Management" should show the total formatted space along with Format type such as NTFS rather than simply
.Disk 1, Unknown
111.79 GB unallocated
not initialized (and with a red circle and a white minus sign superimposed)
It should read something like:
Disk 1, Findrivr (or whatever your volume label is) [F:] <- should be any other letter than [C:]
111.79 GB NTFS Healthy
I believe that all hard drives are shipped unformatted and must be formatted before they can be used.
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I was just reading in Windows Help and Support the other day that you must initialize a brand new disk in Disk Management before you can do anything with it.
Microsoft wrote:A basic disk's status is Not Initialized.
Cause:
The disk does not contain a valid signature. After you install a new disk, Windows XP must write a disk signature, the end of sector marker (also called signature word), and a master boot record or GUID partition table before you can create partitions on the disk. When you first start Disk Management after installing a new disk, a wizard providing a list of the new disks detected by Windows XP is displayed. If you cancel the wizard before the disk signature is written, the disk status remains Not Initialized.
Solution:
Initialize the disk. The disk status briefly changes to Initializing and then Healthy status. For instructions describing how to initialize a disk, see To initialize new disks.
DKB
GACrabill: OK, suppose I do want to retain my HPA, according to the HPA white paper from IBM, the default setting in the BIOS for Security of the 'IBM PreDeskTop Area' is set to
Normal: "change allowed; contents hidden from OS.
Are you saying to temporarily [for the cloning process] change that to:
"Disabled: Not usable; visible and reclaimable."
??
That would make sense; however, I defualted to the deafult value [Normal], to be safe.
Then, you set the cloning parameters manually; thereby specifying the sizes of partitions manually, versus proportionate to the old HD. This makes sense as well.
GomJabbar and coreman,
The disc was in fact specified by the Windows 'Disk Management' utility as not initialized , I presume this to be the same as unformatted.
That may explain the presence of the 'red dot with white dash superimposed' icon. I forgot that most, if not all, new HDDs are shipped unformatted. On the other hand, I would have expected Acronis to have signaled this to me at the outset of the 'clone' command.
I'll try to go back through Win Disk Management and see if I can do a format there. Right off the top, those 2 items seem to be of paramount importance.
I presume all that remains then is to follow the same procedure with Acronis again, hoping for a completed clone and then resetting the BIOS Security for the "IBM PreDesktop Area" back to Normal before loading new HD into T41?
Please comment/suggest if I've mis-interpreted something.
I'll update soon; may have to leave town for the next 5 days though.
Thank you all.
Patrick
Normal: "change allowed; contents hidden from OS.
Are you saying to temporarily [for the cloning process] change that to:
"Disabled: Not usable; visible and reclaimable."
??
That would make sense; however, I defualted to the deafult value [Normal], to be safe.
Then, you set the cloning parameters manually; thereby specifying the sizes of partitions manually, versus proportionate to the old HD. This makes sense as well.
GomJabbar and coreman,
The disc was in fact specified by the Windows 'Disk Management' utility as not initialized , I presume this to be the same as unformatted.
That may explain the presence of the 'red dot with white dash superimposed' icon. I forgot that most, if not all, new HDDs are shipped unformatted. On the other hand, I would have expected Acronis to have signaled this to me at the outset of the 'clone' command.
I'll try to go back through Win Disk Management and see if I can do a format there. Right off the top, those 2 items seem to be of paramount importance.
I presume all that remains then is to follow the same procedure with Acronis again, hoping for a completed clone and then resetting the BIOS Security for the "IBM PreDesktop Area" back to Normal before loading new HD into T41?
Please comment/suggest if I've mis-interpreted something.
I'll update soon; may have to leave town for the next 5 days though.
Thank you all.
Patrick
FYI, initializing the disk does not partition it or format it. What do you have to lose to try it?findrivr wrote:GomJabbar and coreman,
The disc was in fact specified by the Windows 'Disk Management' utility as not initialized , I presume this to be the same as unformatted.
That may explain the presence of the 'red dot with white dash superimposed' icon. I forgot that most, if not all, new HDDs are shipped unformatted. On the other hand, I would have expected Acronis to have signaled this to me at the outset of the 'clone' command.
If you are booting up a CD version of Acronis, then yes, you probably do not need to initialize it in Windows. However if you are using Acronis while booted into Windows, then I can see where initializing might be necessary.
Personally, I have not used Acronis to know for certain.
DKB
I think this link explains about Initializing under Disk Management.
The first thing I've always done is formatted new hard drives into the desired format...for Win XP that's been NTFS for all partitions but the author of the referenced article actually mixes up the Format types.
Acronis TI doesn't require a brand spanking new drive to do it's job so I "assume" that a formatted drive would work just fine and under the Manual mode, you can set up the partitions as you wish.
So I guess I would format first and then go from there...
Also from the linked article and I think why it is important to format first
The first thing I've always done is formatted new hard drives into the desired format...for Win XP that's been NTFS for all partitions but the author of the referenced article actually mixes up the Format types.
Acronis TI doesn't require a brand spanking new drive to do it's job so I "assume" that a formatted drive would work just fine and under the Manual mode, you can set up the partitions as you wish.
So I guess I would format first and then go from there...
Also from the linked article and I think why it is important to format first
The "Perform a quick format" option is useful for setting up a drive quickly and easily, and I've checked it in Screen Eight. But note that a "quick format" doesn't check the entire disk first; instead it assumes that the disk is OK. If the drive has been used before-that is, if you're reformatting a drive-a quick format is usually reasonably safe. But a brand-new drive that has never been checked by your system may have factory defects, shipping damage, or other problems. It's still OK to use a quick format for now, but if you do, make note to run a complete and thorough Chkdsk on the drive later before entrusting it with your live data.
Here is a roundabout approach if you want to keep the HPA and if Acronis won't make the direct clone.
BIOS security setting: "normal". Mount the new drive in the computer and load your IBM recovery CD's one by one. For simplicity, let the restore process continue to completion. Then attach your old drive via USB (in a $10 housing). Use Acronis on a bootable CD to image the C:\ partition of your old drive into what will be the C:\ partition of your new drive.
BIOS security setting: "normal". Mount the new drive in the computer and load your IBM recovery CD's one by one. For simplicity, let the restore process continue to completion. Then attach your old drive via USB (in a $10 housing). Use Acronis on a bootable CD to image the C:\ partition of your old drive into what will be the C:\ partition of your new drive.
Dennis Couzin
T43 2668-WMZ, Pentium M 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T43 2668-WMZ, Pentium M 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T43 2668-WYN, Pentium M 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T42 2378-FVU, Pentium M 1.7 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T43 2668-WMZ, Pentium M 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T43 2668-WMZ, Pentium M 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T43 2668-WYN, Pentium M 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
T42 2378-FVU, Pentium M 1.7 GHz, 2 GB, XP-P Sp3
I have successfully used Acronic True Image (ver. 9) to clone several WinXP Pro HDD's (in T42's), incl. successfully cloning the HPA, but I have always used Manual Mode, rather than using Automatic Mode (see http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=38439). I have had the new drives sitting in the Ultrabay 2nd Hardisk Adaptor while cloning, or having had the new drive sitting in an external USB2-case. I have always formatted the new drives from scratch, before running Acronis. I have run Acronis from the source HDD, and I have never experienced the error you report.
If you use Manual Mode (which I absolutely suggest!), you know what is going on, and you are also able to manually select the size of the partitions on the new disk. If you use Automatic Mode, the partitions (incl. the HPA) will be sized proportionally, that is, if the source HPA is, say, 4.3 GB (on the source 40 GB disk), then HPA on the new disk will be sized 4.3 x (100 GB/40 GB) = 10.75 GB (assuming the new disk being 100 GB), which is pure waste of space! In Manual Mode, it is you who specify the size of the partitions!
Good luck!
Regards,
Johan
If you use Manual Mode (which I absolutely suggest!), you know what is going on, and you are also able to manually select the size of the partitions on the new disk. If you use Automatic Mode, the partitions (incl. the HPA) will be sized proportionally, that is, if the source HPA is, say, 4.3 GB (on the source 40 GB disk), then HPA on the new disk will be sized 4.3 x (100 GB/40 GB) = 10.75 GB (assuming the new disk being 100 GB), which is pure waste of space! In Manual Mode, it is you who specify the size of the partitions!
Good luck!
Regards,
Johan
IBM T42p's (2373-Q1U & -Q2U): 2.1 GHz, 15" UXGA FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB FireGL T2, 128 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
Thanks to everyone; the support is incredible.
I'm going to first initialize the new disk, then format manually to probably the max number of partitions Windows allows (4?)- maybe even go with an 'extended' partiton to use all the drive capacity.
Then run a disk check for errors.
Go in and set the Predesktop Area security to 'disabled' in order for AC TI 9 to see the HPA to copy to new HD.
Then I'll re-attempt the 'cloning' w/Acronis TI 9 [purchased the downloadable] from the old HDD and the external-USB [new HD] interface; hopefully that will be next week- I'll reply with a description of how it went: success or failure.
Thanks again,
Patrick
I'm going to first initialize the new disk, then format manually to probably the max number of partitions Windows allows (4?)- maybe even go with an 'extended' partiton to use all the drive capacity.
Then run a disk check for errors.
Go in and set the Predesktop Area security to 'disabled' in order for AC TI 9 to see the HPA to copy to new HD.
Then I'll re-attempt the 'cloning' w/Acronis TI 9 [purchased the downloadable] from the old HDD and the external-USB [new HD] interface; hopefully that will be next week- I'll reply with a description of how it went: success or failure.
Thanks again,
Patrick
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Jhendrickson
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:16 am
- Location: Buchanan, MI
Having similar unresolved problems
I am attempting to clone both a t43 and a t42 to larger hard drives, and I have tried easy migrate, TI 10, TI 10 Workstation, and am downloading TI 10 Server.
I can't get any of them to work.
The T42 never completes the reboot - always hangs on "error: partition configuration has changed", then boots back into the OS (XP). The last time, it simply said, "Disk not Found"
The T43 always completes the cloning, but never finds the O/S on the new drive after I swap it out.
I have the hidden partition visible on both machines.
A little sounds advice would be immensly appreciated. It appears the data is copying - both partitions are visible on the cloned drive (the one that finished the cloning procedure).
Do I need to move the rescue partition to a different spot?
Thanks for your help.
Jared
I can't get any of them to work.
The T42 never completes the reboot - always hangs on "error: partition configuration has changed", then boots back into the OS (XP). The last time, it simply said, "Disk not Found"
The T43 always completes the cloning, but never finds the O/S on the new drive after I swap it out.
I have the hidden partition visible on both machines.
A little sounds advice would be immensly appreciated. It appears the data is copying - both partitions are visible on the cloned drive (the one that finished the cloning procedure).
Do I need to move the rescue partition to a different spot?
Thanks for your help.
Jared
Thinkpad Hoard
Re: Having similar unresolved problems
Create a Recovery or Bootable CD within TI 10, and then boot with it. Then re-try your clone operation without Windows involved.Jhendrickson wrote: ... I have tried easy migrate, TI 10, TI 10 Workstation, and am downloading TI 10 Server.
I can't get any of them to work.
The T42 never completes the reboot - always hangs on "error: partition configuration has changed", then boots back into the OS (XP). The last time, it simply said, "Disk not Found"
The T43 always completes the cloning, but never finds the O/S on the new drive after I swap it out.
I have the hidden partition visible on both machines.
This method has solved the failure of 'cloning during re-boot' for me.
Are you resizing the partitions? The first time I tryed to clone I let the program size the partitions and it failed. So the next time I did it I set the sizes manually and made sure the HPA was set to exactly the same size as it was in the source disk. Also make sure you setup the boot selection to only boot from the main HD.
John
John
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Jhendrickson
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- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:16 am
- Location: Buchanan, MI
I have run the program from the bootable CD on the T42. It can't finish loading the Full Version (which I need b/c I am using a USB Hard Drive as my destination). It just hangs up at the "Acronis Loading" insignia.
Yes, I have tried both manual, as is, and Automatic modes... none have worked. I have specified the exact same HPA partition size in the manual mode and just stretched the primary partition.
On the T43, it always completes the cloning properly, but never boots properly off of the new HD. I am getting the dreaded 2010 error. I am able to access the c: drive now, but only through the windows recovery console. I thought about repairing the MBR, but windows gives me a caution that it seems like a non-standard MBR... and "you may not want to do this".
Thanks again for your reponses. I am pretty clueless.
Yes, I have tried both manual, as is, and Automatic modes... none have worked. I have specified the exact same HPA partition size in the manual mode and just stretched the primary partition.
On the T43, it always completes the cloning properly, but never boots properly off of the new HD. I am getting the dreaded 2010 error. I am able to access the c: drive now, but only through the windows recovery console. I thought about repairing the MBR, but windows gives me a caution that it seems like a non-standard MBR... and "you may not want to do this".
Thanks again for your reponses. I am pretty clueless.
Thinkpad Hoard
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Jhendrickson
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:16 am
- Location: Buchanan, MI
My NEW Procedure
Here's what I've decided to try...
I found out that I can burn a set of FACTORY recovery CD's from within windows XP. There is Thinkvantage Software for doing just that.
I will burn the Recovery Cd's (1 cd + 1 DVD or 7 CD's)
I will do a complete backup of current sys config
I will install new HD and try the recovery CD's on that drive.
If successful, I will restore the backup into the new system.
I'll just pray that this works - my upgrades are piling up.
I found out that I can burn a set of FACTORY recovery CD's from within windows XP. There is Thinkvantage Software for doing just that.
I will burn the Recovery Cd's (1 cd + 1 DVD or 7 CD's)
I will do a complete backup of current sys config
I will install new HD and try the recovery CD's on that drive.
If successful, I will restore the backup into the new system.
I'll just pray that this works - my upgrades are piling up.
Thinkpad Hoard
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Jhendrickson
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:16 am
- Location: Buchanan, MI
Success! The back way.
I just wanted to present my success at finally getting a hard drive to upgrade.
I will clarify up front - I wasn't using IBM hard drives, and I know they aren't "verified" by IBM... but they were $100 cheaper!
After applying the process described in the last post, I am successfully reinstalling the full backup now on all three machines. The RnR disc set worked great. I am still getting the 2010 error on the T43, but I set the bios to continue loading w/o user intervention, so no big deal.
Thanks for your help, and thanks for this forum!
Jared
I will clarify up front - I wasn't using IBM hard drives, and I know they aren't "verified" by IBM... but they were $100 cheaper!
After applying the process described in the last post, I am successfully reinstalling the full backup now on all three machines. The RnR disc set worked great. I am still getting the 2010 error on the T43, but I set the bios to continue loading w/o user intervention, so no big deal.
Thanks for your help, and thanks for this forum!
Jared
Thinkpad Hoard
HDD changeout followed up, but now w/Win sys problems
Following up on this thread I created before my wife lost both parents in a six day span; they were both very old and passed of natural causes, so we're barely catching up now.
Back on point, I never got around to following the tips passed on by others on this thread, but am about to pick up the pieces again. So, just as I'm about to 'initailize' and 'format' the new HDD, the old system goes does...or at least its displayed a number of issues that seem to point to an overloaded 40gb HDD.
Here's what happened and where I'm hung up now:
During an internet session, I didn't want to completely shut down, so I did an ALT+F4 to 'suspend' the system for about a couple of hours to go out to dinner. About 3 hours later, I come home and inadvertently forget to hit the Fn fey to bring it out of suspend, and hit the power button instead.
Nothing happens, so I hit it again and the system goes through the POST, IBM splash and prompts for the BIOS p/w as usual.
WinXP then boots and all seems normal, except for the fact that none of the programs will launch-
For example, IE6, Win Explorer, Control Panel, etc.
After waiting about 10 minutes or so, I launch Win task manager and it doesn't list anything as running, but does show cpu use at 100%.
Next, I try to shut down, and the system goes through it's non resonsive program error messages for each program or utility I tried opening. So I execute the 'End' command on each one, and it shuts down otherwise normally.
Upon a subsequent cold boot attempt, trying to invoke the IBM Access interface before booting WinXp, I was sucessful in opening it. When I selected the 'Restore your backups' routine, the system hung for an extended period of well over 15 minutes, then came the Win blue screen w/DOS like dialogue-
The message reported [paraphrasing] that Windows detected an abnormal occurence and shut down the computer as a failsafe.
Then stated that if this was an isolated event, to allow it to reboot, which is what I wanted to do.
At the bottom of the message, the last line read :
"Beginning dump of physical memory...."
"press any key to continue"
After about 10 minutes of no apparent activity, I hit Esc, then spacebar, then Enter, and no response.
I decided to just force a cold boot, by pressing and holding the power button to restart the system.
That was succesful, but the same problem persists:
WinXP looks to do a normal boot, but fails to lauch most programs.
I can get some simple programs, such as Notepad and Network status and probably some other unknown at this time.
So, the big programs aren't launching at all, although the desktop shows them available, the Win start bar pops up as usual, and when selected, the Win standby 'hourglass' pops open as though its working, but then nothing ever launches. Again, at shutdown, Win advises that each of the programs I attempted to open is 'not responding' and advises to either wait or force it to close.
All my system icons in the tray are there and normal as well, ie: no 'yellow exclamation pt. triangles' and no error/problem messages.
I am now running 'Spybot' to see if it detects a virus.
It launched and seems to be executing normally.
I was able to launch the 'OpenOffice suite' of text editor, db manager, etc all in one and some other stuff too.
IE6, Win Expl, Control Panel, and Accesories>System Tools also hang or just won't launch.
Now, Spybot seems to have hung up as well.
Any suggestions or questions to further clarify the problem.
Back on point, I never got around to following the tips passed on by others on this thread, but am about to pick up the pieces again. So, just as I'm about to 'initailize' and 'format' the new HDD, the old system goes does...or at least its displayed a number of issues that seem to point to an overloaded 40gb HDD.
Here's what happened and where I'm hung up now:
During an internet session, I didn't want to completely shut down, so I did an ALT+F4 to 'suspend' the system for about a couple of hours to go out to dinner. About 3 hours later, I come home and inadvertently forget to hit the Fn fey to bring it out of suspend, and hit the power button instead.
Nothing happens, so I hit it again and the system goes through the POST, IBM splash and prompts for the BIOS p/w as usual.
WinXP then boots and all seems normal, except for the fact that none of the programs will launch-
For example, IE6, Win Explorer, Control Panel, etc.
After waiting about 10 minutes or so, I launch Win task manager and it doesn't list anything as running, but does show cpu use at 100%.
Next, I try to shut down, and the system goes through it's non resonsive program error messages for each program or utility I tried opening. So I execute the 'End' command on each one, and it shuts down otherwise normally.
Upon a subsequent cold boot attempt, trying to invoke the IBM Access interface before booting WinXp, I was sucessful in opening it. When I selected the 'Restore your backups' routine, the system hung for an extended period of well over 15 minutes, then came the Win blue screen w/DOS like dialogue-
The message reported [paraphrasing] that Windows detected an abnormal occurence and shut down the computer as a failsafe.
Then stated that if this was an isolated event, to allow it to reboot, which is what I wanted to do.
At the bottom of the message, the last line read :
"Beginning dump of physical memory...."
"press any key to continue"
After about 10 minutes of no apparent activity, I hit Esc, then spacebar, then Enter, and no response.
I decided to just force a cold boot, by pressing and holding the power button to restart the system.
That was succesful, but the same problem persists:
WinXP looks to do a normal boot, but fails to lauch most programs.
I can get some simple programs, such as Notepad and Network status and probably some other unknown at this time.
So, the big programs aren't launching at all, although the desktop shows them available, the Win start bar pops up as usual, and when selected, the Win standby 'hourglass' pops open as though its working, but then nothing ever launches. Again, at shutdown, Win advises that each of the programs I attempted to open is 'not responding' and advises to either wait or force it to close.
All my system icons in the tray are there and normal as well, ie: no 'yellow exclamation pt. triangles' and no error/problem messages.
I am now running 'Spybot' to see if it detects a virus.
It launched and seems to be executing normally.
I was able to launch the 'OpenOffice suite' of text editor, db manager, etc all in one and some other stuff too.
IE6, Win Expl, Control Panel, and Accesories>System Tools also hang or just won't launch.
Now, Spybot seems to have hung up as well.
Any suggestions or questions to further clarify the problem.
Well the way you came out of suspend may have corrupted Windows in which case cloning would do you no good.
Acronis should simply do the cloning without problems. If you can't figure out how to do it successfullly you may want to try another cloning program.
There are a few free ones if you google for them.
The one I prefer over Acronis for cloning is Drive Image 5, 6, or 7
All unavailable now because Symantec bought them and only has Ghost which you could use to. I never liked Ghost tho. If you get stuck MP me I will help you slove your problem.
First tho you need to get Windows runnning like it was before.
Acronis should simply do the cloning without problems. If you can't figure out how to do it successfullly you may want to try another cloning program.
There are a few free ones if you google for them.
The one I prefer over Acronis for cloning is Drive Image 5, 6, or 7
All unavailable now because Symantec bought them and only has Ghost which you could use to. I never liked Ghost tho. If you get stuck MP me I will help you slove your problem.
First tho you need to get Windows runnning like it was before.
I have done what you want, but only with identical disks. Acronis cannot see the see the HPA space, because the drive firmware was modified to report back a smaller isze. I have changed the bios setting under security to set predesktop area to disabled (changing the firmware back the way it started), use a partitioniing tool to set create a full-size fat-32 partition in the newly visible free space (WITHOUT FORMATTING) and using Acronis rescue disk to clone the disk. I then delete the new partition, and reboot to the bios changing predesktop area back to normal, then everything is OK. The way to move to a bigger disk is to clear all partitions on the new disk, put that disk into the primary bay on your thinkpad and recover to the factory software using recovery CDs. After that is done, I put the original disk back in, with the new drive in a 2nd HDD adapter and booted acronis rescue media from a USB CD drive, then copy just the data from your old drive, wiping out the data on the new drive with the stuff you want. The process is a pain.
SlamX, if what you say is correct, and I agree w/you that Windows has become corrupted by virtue of 2 things. 1st, my careless operation of powering on when system was just in suspend, and then the fact the the old HDD has only about 11% space free. That probably puts a lot of load on Windows and the HDD during suspend or hibernate, and resuming from both correctly or incorrectly, etc.
Is it possible to just re-install win xp on the old hdd, without losing the programs and data?
If so, would I have to get an xp install disc?
If i can't, is this something that would be worth paying a computer tech to do [not too concerned about data, since most is already copied to my n/w drive]?
I'm examining options at this point of whether it's worth time and effort to try to resurrect full functionality to the old hdd or just install new hdd and use my set of IBM R&R discs to go back to factory config.; of course I'd have to re-install all the programs [not that many] and copy data back- presuming time consumer would the appling and installing updated drivers, xp patches, etc.
???
Thanks,
Patrick
Is it possible to just re-install win xp on the old hdd, without losing the programs and data?
If so, would I have to get an xp install disc?
If i can't, is this something that would be worth paying a computer tech to do [not too concerned about data, since most is already copied to my n/w drive]?
I'm examining options at this point of whether it's worth time and effort to try to resurrect full functionality to the old hdd or just install new hdd and use my set of IBM R&R discs to go back to factory config.; of course I'd have to re-install all the programs [not that many] and copy data back- presuming time consumer would the appling and installing updated drivers, xp patches, etc.
???
Thanks,
Patrick
One reason I use stabdby rather than hibernate is hibernate loads data into memory to write to the hd. Standby does not. So if hibernate is not turned back on right the data itis holding to write the the hd or update the data..gets corrupted along with possbily system files and registry.
Yes XP can do a Repair install and save the data. You will need the XP Cd to do this.
I forget but did you try to restore windows to a previous date with System Restore?
Yes XP can do a Repair install and save the data. You will need the XP Cd to do this.
I forget but did you try to restore windows to a previous date with System Restore?
findrivr wrote:SlamX, if what you say is correct, and I agree w/you that Windows has become corrupted by virtue of 2 things. 1st, my careless operation of powering on when system was just in suspend, and then the fact the the old HDD has only about 11% space free. That probably puts a lot of load on Windows and the HDD during suspend or hibernate, and resuming from both correctly or incorrectly, etc.
Is it possible to just re-install win xp on the old hdd, without losing the programs and data?
If so, would I have to get an xp install disc?
If i can't, is this something that would be worth paying a computer tech to do [not too concerned about data, since most is already copied to my n/w drive]?
I'm examining options at this point of whether it's worth time and effort to try to resurrect full functionality to the old hdd or just install new hdd and use my set of IBM R&R discs to go back to factory config.; of course I'd have to re-install all the programs [not that many] and copy data back- presuming time consumer would the appling and installing updated drivers, xp patches, etc.
???
Thanks,
Patrick
SlamX-
yeah, I did try to restore, but it was in safe mode. Couldn't get system restore to complete launch in normal mode. Anyway, either I didn't go far enough back, which I think I did, or executing it in safe mode doesn't work.
I'll probably try to look around for someone that has a generic copy of xp and try the repair install.
In the meantime, I'll probably do an R&R to my new hdd to get the T41 going again and see about fixing my old hdd later. If it comes back, then I'll just use Acronis TI to clone over the newly restored hdd.
Don't really know what else.
Thanks,
Patrick
yeah, I did try to restore, but it was in safe mode. Couldn't get system restore to complete launch in normal mode. Anyway, either I didn't go far enough back, which I think I did, or executing it in safe mode doesn't work.
I'll probably try to look around for someone that has a generic copy of xp and try the repair install.
In the meantime, I'll probably do an R&R to my new hdd to get the T41 going again and see about fixing my old hdd later. If it comes back, then I'll just use Acronis TI to clone over the newly restored hdd.
Don't really know what else.
Thanks,
Patrick
[quote="JhendricI thought about repairing the MBR, but windows gives me a caution that it seems like a non-standard MBR... and "you may not want to do this".
Thanks again for your reponses. I am pretty clueless.[/quote]
Running fixmbr and fixboot is part of your solution. Acronis may be failing because the drive master boot record is broken.
Ignore the "you may not want to do this" message....it's the usual mysterious Microsoft rhetoric that is just confusing and it's ok to go ahead.
I am an acronis user and have successfully used it (using the boot CD created within acronis for windows) on a T43p, T60, R51 and R52 as well as a X30.
I have run images to and from external USB drives and to and from another partition on the same drive. It all works. Your secret is probably the bad boot record. Fix those two and you should be back in business.
On the Fn+F4 mistake coming out of sleep: I have made that mistake numerous times. It had no bad effect. This tells me that your problem is in the boot record, not your mistake in hitting the power button instead of Fn coming out of sleep.
Thanks again for your reponses. I am pretty clueless.[/quote]
Running fixmbr and fixboot is part of your solution. Acronis may be failing because the drive master boot record is broken.
Ignore the "you may not want to do this" message....it's the usual mysterious Microsoft rhetoric that is just confusing and it's ok to go ahead.
I am an acronis user and have successfully used it (using the boot CD created within acronis for windows) on a T43p, T60, R51 and R52 as well as a X30.
I have run images to and from external USB drives and to and from another partition on the same drive. It all works. Your secret is probably the bad boot record. Fix those two and you should be back in business.
On the Fn+F4 mistake coming out of sleep: I have made that mistake numerous times. It had no bad effect. This tells me that your problem is in the boot record, not your mistake in hitting the power button instead of Fn coming out of sleep.
You may find the following step-by-step article helpful.
Langa Letter: XP's No-Reformat, Nondestructive Total-Rebuild Option
Langa Letter: XP's No-Reformat, Nondestructive Total-Rebuild Option
DKB
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Uncletoad
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I messed around with this stuff for awhile a year or two ago and finally ended up doing the following.
I have a couple of the same size drives. In my case I've got 3 of the 40 gig Fujitsus that came with my boxes. I use the drive bay that fits in the ultra slim bay so both the source and destination drives are onboard rather than USB (which didn't really work).
Acronis makes exact clones of the drive after a reboot. They work great. They've saved my bacon 3 times now.
I did notice the 2nd time I had a clones of clone and some stuff didn't work as well. I started fresh on another HD and when it went belly up a first gen clone of it is what I'm working on now.
No errors, real easy.
It's the USB thing that's a mess. Once I had both drives onboard it worked great from then on out.
I have a couple of the same size drives. In my case I've got 3 of the 40 gig Fujitsus that came with my boxes. I use the drive bay that fits in the ultra slim bay so both the source and destination drives are onboard rather than USB (which didn't really work).
Acronis makes exact clones of the drive after a reboot. They work great. They've saved my bacon 3 times now.
I did notice the 2nd time I had a clones of clone and some stuff didn't work as well. I started fresh on another HD and when it went belly up a first gen clone of it is what I'm working on now.
No errors, real easy.
It's the USB thing that's a mess. Once I had both drives onboard it worked great from then on out.
Salutations from the Land of Cows
Phil Maneri
T42p 2373KXU 15” UXGA
T42 2373K9U 14.1 XGA x2
T42 2373B21 14.1 XGA
Looking for a T42p 2373Q1U UXGA
Phil Maneri
T42p 2373KXU 15” UXGA
T42 2373K9U 14.1 XGA x2
T42 2373B21 14.1 XGA
Looking for a T42p 2373Q1U UXGA
Also unable to boot off of a cloned drive.
I am having the same problem. I am attempting to clone my 60 GB 7200 rpm Hitachi with two logical partitions (plus hidden partition) to a "new" 100 GB 7200 rpm Hitachi drive (OEM Lenovo/IBM part). My computer has the latest v 3.23 BIOS.
I first formatted the new drive, then tried Acronis 11 (trial version) to clone to the 100 GB in an external USB 2 enclosure. I used the manual mode so that the hidden partition would not be expanded unnecessarily.
I cannot boot off of the cloned drive when it is swapped into the machine. All I get is a blinking cursor after the IBM POST screen. There are no error beeps or codes.
I then tried merging, formatting, and reestablishing the two logical partitions on the new drive (leaving the hidden partition intact) and using XXClone to clone from my 60 GB HDD. Once again, I only get a blinking cursor at startup.
I have read the threads on cloning including the FAQ but the process has failed for me. How do I clone an HDD with two logical partitions and the hidden partition to a new drive that I can swap into the computer?
It is very frustrating having spent a fair amount of money on a new HDD and enclosure to find them essentially useless to me.
I first formatted the new drive, then tried Acronis 11 (trial version) to clone to the 100 GB in an external USB 2 enclosure. I used the manual mode so that the hidden partition would not be expanded unnecessarily.
I cannot boot off of the cloned drive when it is swapped into the machine. All I get is a blinking cursor after the IBM POST screen. There are no error beeps or codes.
I then tried merging, formatting, and reestablishing the two logical partitions on the new drive (leaving the hidden partition intact) and using XXClone to clone from my 60 GB HDD. Once again, I only get a blinking cursor at startup.
I have read the threads on cloning including the FAQ but the process has failed for me. How do I clone an HDD with two logical partitions and the hidden partition to a new drive that I can swap into the computer?
It is very frustrating having spent a fair amount of money on a new HDD and enclosure to find them essentially useless to me.
T42(p) 2379-DXU | 15" FlexView, 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, 128 MB FireGL T2 mobo, UJ-842 Multi-Burner, 100 GB 7200 RPM, Dock II
T410 2516-CTO | 2.66 GHz i7-620M, 6 GB, 512 MB NVIDIA 3100m, 160 GB SSD
T410 2516-CTO | 2.66 GHz i7-620M, 6 GB, 512 MB NVIDIA 3100m, 160 GB SSD
A few ideas comes to mind:
See the thread
Also, you might find some useful information in the Rescue and Recovery - Recovery repair diskette.
Edit: Another potentially usable utility might be the Master boot record repair kit - referenced e.g. in the thread Acronis Disk Director Resize & MBR Problem.
Johan
See the thread
... and perhaps also the thread T42 Hard Drive Upgrade Problems - Please Help *PIC*. Was your external enclosure an Apricorn? If so, see e.g. Upgrading T42's 60g Hatachi to 80g Seagate - as there is a known "issue" with cloning using Acronis enclosures... as also discussed in Problem Cloning Drive Using Acronis True Image.[url=http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=63076][color=blue][u]R51 new hard drive won't boot after upgrade[/color][/u][/url] where, in the post of Jun 07, 2008 2:14 pm, Puppy wrote:Even performing Recovery to the factory state can not fix corrupted MBR sometimes. I solved it by booting the IBM recovery (by ThinkPad button), pressing F3 to get command-line, finding FDISK utility and running:
fdisk /mbr
Also, you might find some useful information in the Rescue and Recovery - Recovery repair diskette.
Edit: Another potentially usable utility might be the Master boot record repair kit - referenced e.g. in the thread Acronis Disk Director Resize & MBR Problem.
Johan
IBM T42p's (2373-Q1U & -Q2U): 2.1 GHz, 15" UXGA FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB FireGL T2, 128 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
^^ Thanks.
I've tried redoing the clone with the Pre-Desktop Area and Security Chip disabled in the BIOS with a reformatted 100 GB drive, but no dice. In fact, Acronis gives me an error on reboot regarding changed partitions.
Right now I'm going to try to reformat the new drive again (all with it in the external case) including elimination of the recovery partition on it. Unfortunately, I have the trial version of Acronis and so cannot do the clone outside of Windows; thus I am required to keep the "new" 100 GB drive in the external USB case.
I will attempt the fdisk/ mbr trick if I get the blinking cursor again as that seems to be the problem I'm having.
EDIT: It seems from reading further (this information is spread out all over the place, which is a bit annoying) that I must have the target drive installed in my machine for the clone to work correctly--something to do with "unique" consideration of drive geometry by IBM. I'll have to find some way to boot off a CD with the target drive in the machine so that I may clone from my source drive in the enclosure. This is very frustrating.
I've tried redoing the clone with the Pre-Desktop Area and Security Chip disabled in the BIOS with a reformatted 100 GB drive, but no dice. In fact, Acronis gives me an error on reboot regarding changed partitions.
Right now I'm going to try to reformat the new drive again (all with it in the external case) including elimination of the recovery partition on it. Unfortunately, I have the trial version of Acronis and so cannot do the clone outside of Windows; thus I am required to keep the "new" 100 GB drive in the external USB case.
I will attempt the fdisk/ mbr trick if I get the blinking cursor again as that seems to be the problem I'm having.
EDIT: It seems from reading further (this information is spread out all over the place, which is a bit annoying) that I must have the target drive installed in my machine for the clone to work correctly--something to do with "unique" consideration of drive geometry by IBM. I'll have to find some way to boot off a CD with the target drive in the machine so that I may clone from my source drive in the enclosure. This is very frustrating.
T42(p) 2379-DXU | 15" FlexView, 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, 128 MB FireGL T2 mobo, UJ-842 Multi-Burner, 100 GB 7200 RPM, Dock II
T410 2516-CTO | 2.66 GHz i7-620M, 6 GB, 512 MB NVIDIA 3100m, 160 GB SSD
T410 2516-CTO | 2.66 GHz i7-620M, 6 GB, 512 MB NVIDIA 3100m, 160 GB SSD
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