Laptop for Graduate Student???

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DiViNiTy · #1 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:56 pm

Ok, so I am starting Graduate Schooll in March and I need a laptop. I am going with IBM and I have in narrowed down to three laptops. If you guys would, just give me some input into what you would choose. I will be commuting back and forth to school by bus and subway. This will also be my first Thinkpad. So here are the three I am looking at:

T42 2378FVU
1.7GHz Dothan Processor
256MB RAM
14" SXGA+ Screen
64MB ATI Radeon 9600
40GB 5400RPM HD
One year warranty

T42 2379DXU
1.7GHz Dothan Processor
512MB RAM
15" SXGA+ Screen w/ Flexview
64MB ATI Radeon 9600
60GB 7200RPM HD
Three Year Warranty

X40 2382ECU
1.4GHz Dothan Processor
256MB RAM
12" XGA Screen
64MB Intel Extreme Graphics
40GB 5400RPM HD
Three Year Warranty

So what do you guys think???

Three year warranty

Riddil · #2 Post by **Riddil** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:08 pm

First off... never get a system with only 256MB of RAM if you're running XP. Two big reasons: 1) XP is a beast and will run terribly slow with only 256. 2) It also means that you'll be relying heavily on your HDD to act as "virtual memory", meaning constant HDD operation. If you're using the system on the bus/subway then you're greatly increasing the chance for HDD damage.

So! Whatever you choose, do yourself a favor and make sure it has 512MB as a minimum.

With that out of the way....

I *love* my X40. It's liberating with the extended battery and be able to use my system for 6-7 hours straight w/o any concern. Plus it's so small that I can use my old tiny 701 case.

But! The X40 has a smaller screen, and smaller resolution. If you only ever do 1-2 things at a time then you're OK. But if you want 3 windows open all at the same time and to refer to all of them at the same time... then you'll need the extra real-estate from the T42.

If you're going to use it for gaming then definetly go for the ATI over the Intel.

3 years is a long time. 1 year goes by quickly. If you can afford the 3-yr warranty, go for it. The warranty is pretty slick. Basically if anything happens to your system... even if it's you accidentally driving over your system with your car.... it'll get fixed free-of-charge.

admsteiner · #3 Post by **admsteiner** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:10 pm

I have the 2378-FVU, upgraded the warranty to 3 year + Thinkpad protection. great machine.

--adam

Kenn · #4 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:05 pm

Good advice, but it's always a better value to buy additional RAM from a reputable 3rd party like crucial, corsair, mushkin, ocz, rather than get the upgrade from IBM. So I'd say getting a 256MB system is fine, just make sure you earmark another $90-110 for an additional 512MB PC2700 SODIMM. It'll be well worth the value.

I also think the X-series should be more than adequate for most "graduate school" requirements, and a boon to carry around as well.

Riddil wrote:First off... never get a system with only 256MB of RAM if you're running XP. Two big reasons: 1) XP is a beast and will run terribly slow with only 256. 2) It also means that you'll be relying heavily on your HDD to act as "virtual memory", meaning constant HDD operation. If you're using the system on the bus/subway then you're greatly increasing the chance for HDD damage.

So! Whatever you choose, do yourself a favor and make sure it has 512MB as a minimum.

With that out of the way....

fritz_the_blank · #5 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:45 pm

I am a professor but my life is not so different than a graduate student with teaching responsibilities. I went with the 14" screen to save the extra pound that the 15" screen adds and find it plenty large.

I really enjoy the 7200 rpm 60 gig drive. For those times when you are dealing with drive-intensive operations, it really does make the machine seem a whole lot more snappy.

I have found the 1.7 dothan fast enough for everything that I have thrown at it--MS Office, Photoshop, software development tools, the odd game and etc. The only thing that I can't speak to would be autocad and etc.

Good luck with your purchase,

rhema83 · #6 Post by **rhema83** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:12 pm

Just to add to the list of things the T42 is good at, it's plenty fast at compiling programs and running huge matrix calculations. Personally I use MATLAB and also program in Java. You won't believe how fast they run!

ciocc · #7 Post by **ciocc** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:57 am

I started my MS in CS this fall and have been very satisfied with my T42:

T42 2373B08
1.7GHz Dothan Processor
1GB RAM
14" XGA Screen
32MB ATI Radeon 7500
40GB 5400RPM HD
Intel PRO/2100 3B
Three year warranty

I do a lot of programming work and therefore a bigger screen is always a plus. I didn't go with the 15" as it was just too bulky (I had a 15.4" Toshiba M30 and a 15.4" Powerbook G4 before) and the screen size of a X40 was just too small for my need.

The other post about the RAM is absolutely correct. You want more RAM to reduce the amount of pagings to your HD. Get as much RAM as you can afford. There are always times that you need those extra RAM.

Riddil · #8 Post by **Riddil** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:55 am

Kenn wrote:Good advice, but it's always a better value to buy additional RAM from a reputable 3rd party...

Good point! The key really is to make sure that no matter which system you get make sure that you bump over the base 256MB.

I think you've picked definite winners. Both the X and the T are solid systems, it comes down to three basic things...

1) Is weight a factor?
2) Is screen-size a factor? (one-operation-at-a-time, versus multiple working windows)
3) Heavy CPU usage? (eg, writing papers versus compiling code)

But whichever way you go, you can't go wrong.

DiViNiTy · #9 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:00 am

Riddil wrote:I think you've picked definite winners. Both the X and the T are solid systems, it comes down to three basic things...

1) Is weight a factor?
2) Is screen-size a factor? (one-operation-at-a-time, versus multiple working windows)
3) Heavy CPU usage? (eg, writing papers versus compiling code)

But whichever way you go, you can't go wrong.

So I guess what it comes down to is what I am going to be using the notebook for the majority of the time. While I will be mobile on a regular basis, my major (Information Technology) will require me to compile code and to be on my computer a lot. I am assuming that the X40 with its 12" screen would not be ideal for writing code much less compiling it. I would also like to play the occasional game and I guess the X40 would not be good for that either. How about watching DVD's? Would the X40 be ok for that. From what everyone has said, as much as I like the X40, it seems the T42 would be more practical for everyday use.

DiViNiTy · #10 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:02 am

I am new to these forums and I have a question about posting a Quote! When I do it it always just says, Quote: above the actual quote instead of saying, Kenn Wrote:, or whoever elses name that wrote the quote. How do I make it do the latter????? Please help a rookie!!

JHEM · #11 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:08 am

DiViNiTy wrote:I am new to these forums and I have a question about posting a Quote! When I do it it always just says, Quote: above the actual quote instead of saying, Kenn Wrote:, or whoever elses name that wrote the quote. How do I make it do the latter????? Please help a rookie!!

Are you editing the Quote manually or are you simply clicking on the "quote" button in the original message?

Make sure that after you edit the original post you're repling to that the initial brackets contain quote="OP Name".

Edit your post above to see the change I made to quote="Riddil".

Regards,

James

DiViNiTy · #12 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:12 am

JHEM wrote:Make sure that after you edit the original post you're repling to that the initial brackets contain quote="OP Name".

Edit your post above to see the change I made to quote="Riddil".

Regards,

James

Ahhhhhh.............I got it figured out!! Thanks A Lot

Kenn · #13 Post by **Kenn** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 am

Coders tend to appreciate large swaths of screen real estate a lot. I could code on a 12" 10x7 display, but that's by going full-screen most of the time (I hate doing that) and cherry-picking my font sizes/display. For something as small and convenient as the X, I'd really consider it

But to work most efficiently (simulatenous edit/compile/result/help screens), it would be optimal to have as much screen space as possible, and since you're only choosing between SXGA+ on the t-series, I'd go with the 14".

DiViNiTy · #14 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:44 pm

Kenn wrote:Coders tend to appreciate large swaths of screen real estate a lot. I could code on a 12" 10x7 display, but that's by going full-screen most of the time (I hate doing that) and cherry-picking my font sizes/display. For something as small and convenient as the X, I'd really consider it

So what you are saying is that you don't prefer to code on a 12" screen, but the X40 is an exception that you would be willing to deal with versus other 12" ultra-portables? Would the X40 be ok for occasional multi media stuff, like games and DVD's? I don't mean Doom3, but strategy games and stuff that are not too graphics intensive. Would DVD's run ok also? I am assuming that to use the X40 for full time use you would almost definately want an external monitor at home to plug into! Can the 64MB Intel Extreme Graphics 2 push hight resolutions on an external monitor? Sorry for all the questions but I just want to make sure that I have all of my facts straight before I pluck down $2000+ for a notebook!

fritz_the_blank · #15 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:15 pm

If you have the money, get a laptop that has the separate video card--it makes a world of difference, and not only for games or video watching.

Kenn · #16 Post by **Kenn** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:29 pm

DiViNiTy wrote:
So what you are saying is that you don't prefer to code on a 12" screen, but the X40 is an exception that you would be willing to deal with versus other 12" ultra-portables? Would the X40 be ok for occasional multi media stuff, like games and DVD's? I don't mean Doom3, but strategy games and stuff that are not too graphics intensive. Would DVD's run ok also? I am assuming that to use the X40 for full time use you would almost definately want an external monitor at home to plug into! Can the 64MB Intel Extreme Graphics 2 push hight resolutions on an external monitor? Sorry for all the questions but I just want to make sure that I have all of my facts straight before I pluck down $2000+ for a notebook!

No problem re: the questions, we're all glad to help here

What I meant was that the X40 is so small and light (almost under 3lb) that I would really consider putting up with its resolution/lack-of-optical/slow-CPU limitations just because it would be so much more portable, especially compared to my 15". But at close to 6lb, maybe I'm just thinking the grass is greener on the other side

The X would run and display DVDs just fine, and a 64MB frame buffer on the intel graphics chipset is more than enough to drive an external 32-bit 1600x1200 display.

However, you wouldn't want to run any games on it. The integrated Intel graphics card is a budget-only item. I'd imagine Starcraft should be fine, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any current or last-gen 3d games.

Judging from your questions, I think I would recommend that you go with a t-series. If you're coding, you'll find the extra space that 1440x1050 gives you is HUGE. The 14" 2378FVU is definitely small and light, and has good battery life. The Mobility Radeon 9600 will be able to drive the occasional game (Doom 3 runs at 25fps, which is good enough for single player), and you'll have no problem driving stuff like hi-def WMV with the 1.7Ghz processor (which will also help for system responsiveness, compile times, and the occasional game).

Overall you're giving up a tiny footprint with the X40 for much more functionality with the T42, but it sounds from your queries like it would be worth it.

Feel free to ask if you have any other questions.

Kenn

lfeagan · #17 Post by **lfeagan** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:31 pm

Yes, if you want any decent graphics performance, get the T42 (2378FVU). I just got mine and really personally feel that it is very light and easy to carry around. The X40 is a clearly smaller/lighter, but the Intel ExtremeGraphics2 are just really totally garbage in terms of performance for anything but word-processing. Here is a review I read recently which compares some integrated graphics chipsets:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipse ... i915g.html

It should give you an idea of the performance level to expect from various integrated graphics solutions. Hope this helps some in your decision.

jank0003 · #18 Post by **jank0003** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:04 am

I'm a 3rd year engineering grad student and I have to say I'm really happy with the T41 I just purchased.

The thinkpad is an older model. p1.4m centrino with a 40 gb harddrive that came with 256 mb ram. I added a 512mb stick of (crucial) ram to get upt to 3/4 gb and its pretty [censored] snappy.

My work is mainly computational, but I intend to use the Thinkpad for thesis/paper writing. That said, it has no trouble handling the visual studio/matlab codes that I run on my Pent IV 3.0ghtz desktop with 1gb RAM.Computationally it is far inferior to the DELL 600M with the new intel chip on sale today for $750, but I feel IBM builds better machines and I'm glad I waited ~4months to find the right deal ( my T41 cost $1100 with a 3 yr warranty thru IBM).

If you are commuting a lot I'd say get an X40. Its easy to put that sucker in your lap and type away. The T41 (42 in your case) takes up a great deal more real estate and will be tougher to shield from the clumsy ways of your fellow commuters.

Whatever you do, buy IBM

janx

fritz_the_blank · #19 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:02 am

I gave a great deal of thought to the extra weight /size that the t series represented over the x series.

If you need access to your cd / dvd drive, then once you add the necessary dock, the x series is no lighter. I also came to realize that the width was more important than the footprint when I stored the laptop in my briefcase, and the T42 is very thin. Finally, I felt that the 14" was a good screen/wieght compromise between the x series and the 15" t.

So far, I am very happy with the choice that I made.

lfeagan · #20 Post by **lfeagan** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:11 am

Good points fritz, I took that into consideration when I decided to get a T42 also. Additionally, if you are wanting to get super long run times by using dual batteries, on the X you have to have the base installed to put in the UltraSlim Bay battery. I actually think the X + base is slightly heavier than the 14" T42s are. I seem to remember ~5.6lbs with the base on the X40. Can someone confirm or deny this. I am working on a proof right now and don't feel like looking it up.

DiViNiTy · #21 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:22 pm

fritz_the_blank wrote:I gave a great deal of thought to the extra weight /size that the t series represented over the x series.

If you need access to your cd / dvd drive, then once you add the necessary dock, the x series is no lighter. I also came to realize that the width was more important than the footprint when I stored the laptop in my briefcase, and the T42 is very thin. Finally, I felt that the 14" was a good screen/wieght compromise between the x series and the 15" t.

So far, I am very happy with the choice that I made.

One of the best points made so far. As much as I would like the X40 for its size and sheer coolness I don't feel that it is as practical as the T42. With that being said I agree that the 14" is a nice balance between weight, size, and screen size compared to the 15" T42.

Now my only question is which screen resolution to get. I have read a ton of forums as well as talked to some individuals and it seems the vast majority of people go with the SXGA+ vs. XGA whether it be on the 14" or 15" screen. Is there anyone out there that has an XGA screen and prefers it to the SXGA+ screen? I guess the other thing you are giving up on an XGA screen is the graphics card (32MB Radeon 7500 vs 64MB Radeon 9600). However IBM does make a model that has a 64MB Radeon 9000. Is the 9000 worth a darn? I believe the model number of the T42 with the Radeon 9000 is #23795VU. Does anyone know of anyone that has that model? By the way, I went to Best Buy the other day and did not see one laptop that had a 14" SXGA+ screen!

JHEM · #22 Post by **JHEM** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:36 pm

DiV,

I have the following Thinkpad displays to hand, 14" XGA, 14" SXGA+ and 15" UXGA.

I tend to favor the XGA display, but I only have one working eye and need my reading glasses even then.

My desktop 19" LCD is running at UXGA and I am very comfortable with it, but I'm wearing my reading glasses.

My 24YO son has perfect (corrected) vision and lusts after my 15" UXGA-IPS. He has a 14" SXGA+ display on his every-day T21 Thinkpad and probably wouldn't give it up at gunpoint. My younger daughter has the same T21 as my son but with a 14" XGA display and is perfectly happy.

So, basically, if you've got good/young eyes I'd say to go with the SXGA+.

Regards,

James

fritz_the_blank · #23 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:53 pm

I have sxvga+ with the radion 7500. I am very happy with that combination. The other day while teaching class, I plugged my T42 into the overhead projector, and the results were significantly superior to the integrated video that I had in my old Sony Viao.

sugo · #24 Post by **sugo** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:59 pm

DiViNiTy, if you can find a Sony Z somewhere like CompUSA then you should be able to tell if it works for you. I have bad vision. After scaling windows fonts to 120% the SXGA+ works great for me. It's just so much more enjoyable to view high resolution photos and HDTV clips on the SXGA+.

fritz_the_blank, probably a dumb question but did you use VGA or S Video port?

fritz_the_blank · #25 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:05 pm

I used the standard external monitor (VGA) port. In particular, I was using Sibelius ( a music notation program) and on my old machine, I had to fuss around a lot with the magnificaiton and etc. to make the lines of the staff appear correctly as they kept on dropping out. The rendering on the T42, in contrast, was perfect at all levels of magnification.

rhema83 · #26 Post by **rhema83** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:26 pm

fritz_the_blank wrote:I have sxvga+ with the radion 7500. I am very happy with that combination. The other day while teaching class, I plugged my T42 into the overhead projector, and the results were significantly superior to the integrated video that I had in my old Sony Viao.

Are you sure the Radeon 7500 supports SXGA+? I remember that all the 7500 T42s have XGA screens. Please confirm.

Anyway, you can't go wrong with the 9600. It is one of the most powerful notebook graphics processor at this point and I was pleasantly surprised that IBM put this chip into their "executive model" T series. Toshiba has got the crappy GeForce FX5200 in their business model, Tecra M2.

fritz_the_blank · #27 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:32 pm

Actually, I may be wrong here--what is the screen that comes with SYS.2378EV CONFIGURED SYSTEM ? I knew that there were two 14.1" screen options, and I purchased the better of the two.

DiViNiTy · #28 Post by **DiViNiTy** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:45 pm

Well, I just ordered my first Thinkpad. I went with the 2378-FVU and I feel pretty good about my decision. I went ahead and orderd an extra 512MB RAM too. I was going to get the High Capacity 9-Cell battery but I held off for now. I might get it in the future if I decide I need it. Does anyone else have the High Capacity battery? Also, are the Docking stations worth a darn. They have three to choose from but I can't decide if they are worth it or not. Seems like it could be nice to have. Lastly, what seems to be the Backpack of choice for carrying around your Thinkpad? I have looked at two in particular, the Northface Bandwidth and the Boog Bags BP3 System. Does anyone have either of these or can they comment on another model they might have?

Kenn · #29 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:27 pm

DiViNiTy wrote:Well, I just ordered my first Thinkpad. I went with the 2378-FVU and I feel pretty good about my decision. I went ahead and orderd an extra 512MB RAM too. I was going to get the High Capacity 9-Cell battery but I held off for now. I might get it in the future if I decide I need it. Does anyone else have the High Capacity battery? Also, are the Docking stations worth a darn. They have three to choose from but I can't decide if they are worth it or not. Seems like it could be nice to have. Lastly, what seems to be the Backpack of choice for carrying around your Thinkpad? I have looked at two in particular, the Northface Bandwidth and the Boog Bags BP3 System. Does anyone have either of these or can they comment on another model they might have?

The FVU should be great. You can probably save some money by ordering 512MB from a 3rd party vendor - zipzoomfly has corsair 512MB for $87 shipped, Crucial has 512MB for $109.

Newegg.com carries the 9-cell for under $100.

The Port Replicator II can be useful if you have a lot of standard peripherals to plug into your laptop at home - wireless, speakers, USB mouse, external display, webcam, etc. Otherwise they're probably not worth it.

lfeagan · #30 Post by **lfeagan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:13 pm

I have all three possible batteries for the T42, the 6-cell, the 9-cell, and the UltraSlim bay battery. If you want to be able to run all day and don't want to have to bother to carry a spare battery or AC adapter or any of that stuff, this seems to work quite well as I can verify from my day today. I turned on my notbeook about 8AM and it is now 9PM and i am still churning away. Admittedly, I had some hibernate time in there, but if you just let it do it run in adaptive mode you will be amazed at the life with even the normal 6-cell. The 9-cell battery does have some annoyances. Namely, finding a case that will fit it well is kinda tricky as it sticks out in an odd place and I don't think it would be good to torque it too much. In this sense, a 6-cell with the Ultraslim bay would be a good alternative as it keeps things clean.

The 6-cell battery is rated at around 50Wh.
The 9-cell battery is rated at around 75Wh.
The UltraSlim bay battery is rated at around 25Wh.

As far as docking stations go, I personally have never really felt a need to own one. I got a laptop to be on the move, not to sit down at a desk. If I want files off of it I just plug it in and set it beside my desk and remote access the files off of it from my desktop. If a laptop was your primary machine (god forbid) then a docking station would make a lot of sense. If you have a desktop already I can't see a whole lot o reason for one.

As far as the backpack of choice, I personally just use a slip case and put it in my Marmot Talus 36 backpack which has a rigid inner support system to it made up of a 4mm thick piece of plastic backing along the whole backside. I figure that should keep it pretty safe. Its the only way I know of to get a kickass backpack and still carry a notebook.

As far as dedicated computer bags, I really like the ones from Lowe Pro. I own a Lowe Pro MS 1400 and find that it has a great shoulder strap, and has a nice removable liner that can have the straps attached to it for just carrying the laptop around with a few accesories. The Lowe Pro backpack that looks pretty nice to me is their Express model 1300. http://www.lowepro.com/pages/series/express/ex1300.htm

Laptop for Graduate Student???

Laptop for Graduate Student???

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