T42 is hot even after replaced fan+gpu doesnt have heatsink?

[yukka]

I bought a second hand T42 off ebay and ive been very happy with it, but when i first got it the fan made a noticeably loud noise. I blew into the fan and cleared the dust out and it appeared alot quieter. Ive installed the latest bios updates which include the latest cooling stuff, including the improvements to the fan noise discussed on the thinkpad wiki.

I have installed Notebook Hardware Control and also TP Fan Control. I dont use them both at the same time. I notice that if i play Counterstrike:Source or Warhammer Dawn of War, the CPU heats up to 62 degrees centigrade within 15 mins from its normal 40 degree when its at 600mhz. It idles at 50 degrees if I have it performing at 1.8ghz.

I opened it up to change the fan and noticed the Mobility Radeon 7500 doesnt have a heatsink on it. Also the fan assembly is different to the one thats standard for thinkpads with the 9600 as they come with an extra heatsink in the bottom right corner for the gpu.


MY questions are thus:-

1. Should my CPU heat up to 60 degrees even with the fan on option 7 in TP Fan control (4000+rpm)

2. Should my GPU heat up to 55+ degrees when playing games

3. Should my Laptop have a heatsink on the GPU.

4. Whats the hottest the CPU and GPU can go to without burning out.

The laptop is great for surfing and word processing but it can play those games on low settings really well which was a real surprise when i got it. Am I overstressing the machine by trying to play these things on it? Ive tried using silver compound on the fan assembly but i have to alt+tab continually to check my cpu isnt at critical mass.

Ive also searched these forums for likeminded souls with the same issues but nothing that really answers these questions. Thanks

[FTC]

Hi Yukka,

My 5 cents :

1.

Should my CPU heat up to 60 degrees even with the fan on option 7 in TP Fan control (4000+rpm)

Yes it should get to 60 C in load condition. (not while idle). In CPU temps I's say anything below 80C is quite normal.

2.

Should my GPU heat up to 55+ degrees when playing games

Yes, and even higher, specially not having a long fan. In GPU temps, don't even start worrying until you reach 90C or so. (and this temps are never reached by the radeon 7500s)

3.

Should my Laptop have a heatsink on the GPU.

Not at all. 7500's do NOT require it

4.

Whats the hottest the CPU and GPU can go to without burning out

See above answers, although *physical damage* temps are even higher than the temps I gave. A Dothan CPU can probably reach 100C for a short while without really burning, and ATI states its GPUs can stand even more... before being destroyed.

[agarza]

You have a very cool laptop, nothing to worry about. GPU's can even withstand 110C (this happens in T60p GPUs).

I suppose you undervolted your CPU via NHC to the CPU to reach 62C ?

[yukka]

No I havent explored undervolting yet but the more I read about it, the more it seems a no brainer if I can get it to run stable.

At this time, I havent actually run any games higher than 62 degrees because I got worried each time it got that hot. Ill be a little more adventurous from now on.

I must say, I really like this laptop - its my first but I feel ive got a good one. Very impressed by the build quality and the keyboard of course.

[behar1]

I bought a second hand T42 off ebay and ive been very happy with it, but when i first got it the fan made a noticeably loud noise. I blew into the fan and cleared the dust out and it appeared alot quieter. Ive installed the latest bios updates which include the latest cooling stuff, including the improvements to the fan noise discussed on the thinkpad wiki.

I have installed Notebook Hardware Control and also TP Fan Control. I dont use them both at the same time. I notice that if i play Counterstrike:Source or Warhammer Dawn of War, the CPU heats up to 62 degrees centigrade within 15 mins from its normal 40 degree when its at 600mhz. It idles at 50 degrees if I have it performing at 1.8ghz.

I opened it up to change the fan and noticed the Mobility Radeon 7500 doesnt have a heatsink on it. Also the fan assembly is different to the one thats standard for thinkpads with the 9600 as they come with an extra heatsink in the bottom right corner for the gpu.


MY questions are thus:-

1. Should my CPU heat up to 60 degrees even with the fan on option 7 in TP Fan control (4000+rpm)

2. Should my GPU heat up to 55+ degrees when playing games

3. Should my Laptop have a heatsink on the GPU.

4. Whats the hottest the CPU and GPU can go to without burning out.

The laptop is great for surfing and word processing but it can play those games on low settings really well which was a real surprise when i got it. Am I overstressing the machine by trying to play these things on it? Ive tried using silver compound on the fan assembly but i have to alt+tab continually to check my cpu isnt at critical mass.

Ive also searched these forums for likeminded souls with the same issues but nothing that really answers these questions. Thanks

You are not alone buddy I had the same problem (see this thread)
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
Since my last post the systemboard has been replaced by IBM on March 2006 and it did not make a darn difference at all it came back with a new system board and the same problem .
I am going to send it in again this month, I'll keep bugging them until July of 2008 which is when my warranty expires
It seems to be a design flaw that does not allow the heat to dissipate either by lack of heat sinks or/ exhaust openings on the case
Regards Jerry

[FTC]

Behar1

I don't really think Yukka has the same problem as you. In fact and given what he posted he does NOT have a problem at all. His temps are normal (even in the cool side), and he does not seem to be reporting performance degradation or shutdowns. The only thing a bit off he had was a bit of fan noise which he already fixed and seems like could be reasonable for a second hand machine...

In contrast, in your case you complain about performance degradation (dell thread) and shutdowns, which are a confirmation of what happens with real overheat problems (throttling down when reaching about 90oC and forced shutdown at about 95oC). Now your machine is also a lot more demanding (a 2.1GHz processor runs quite hotter than a 1.8Ghz one), so in your case it is even more important to have the cooling system in good shape (clean of dust, and w/proper thermal grease applied). My suggestion in this case is that you fix it yourself or make sure someone knowledgable in cooling issues w/notebooks does it... I can grant you that a T4x properly set up has enough cooling power to avoid shutdowns even at load... i.e it is not really a design flaw.... but with your processor... just there is *not* that much margin so that just a bit of dust, high outside temps or a fan that is not working as specified can turn the balance to the other side... and it will fail.

[yukka]

Mine hasnt shut down due to the heat. Then, I havent run it much past 62 degrees and it does take its time increasing a degree at a time at that heat.

[behar1]

Behar1

I don't really think Yukka has the same problem as you. In fact and given what he posted he does NOT have a problem at all. His temps are normal (even in the cool side), and he does not seem to be reporting performance degradation or shutdowns. The only thing a bit off he had was a bit of fan noise which he already fixed and seems like could be reasonable for a second hand machine...

In contrast, in your case you complain about performance degradation (dell thread) and shutdowns, which are a confirmation of what happens with real overheat problems (throttling down when reaching about 90oC and forced shutdown at about 95oC). Now your machine is also a lot more demanding (a 2.1GHz processor runs quite hotter than a 1.8Ghz one), so in your case it is even more important to have the cooling system in good shape (clean of dust, and w/proper thermal grease applied). My suggestion in this case is that you fix it yourself or make sure someone knowledgable in cooling issues w/notebooks does it... I can grant you that a T4x properly set up has enough cooling power to avoid shutdowns even at load... i.e it is not really a design flaw.... but with your processor... just there is *not* that much margin so that just a bit of dust, high outside temps or a fan that is not working as specified can turn the balance to the other side... and it will fail.

Thanks for the input, but I still think it is some sort of of a design flaw, because this machine has been doing this since day one I took it out of it's brand new box, fresh out of factory.
I don't see how it can have enough dust to cause the problem
When I sent it to IBM they replaced the systemboard, and again I will assume that any dust would have been cleaned, or an out of spec fan would have been replaced during the service

After reading it one more time, Yes I agree that Yukka's machine has a different problem. Regards, Jerry

[yukka]

Do you think the heat can spread to other components that it wouldnt normally depending on the surface the laptop is on or does the whole motherboard usually warm through?

[PanEuropean]

For what it's worth, just to add a bit of background information about internal temperatures and the fan...

The fan in my T42p (2373) failed about 10 days ago. The computer would not boot, it would display the message 'fan error' and then turn itself off whenever I tried to use the laptop. After a little experimentation, I found that I could hold a household vacuum cleaner hose up to the fan exhaust port, thus spinning the fan up, and this would enable me to boot the laptop. I guess it fooled the laptop into thinking that the fan was working.

Once I took the vacuum cleaner hose away, the fan stopped working. I have been watching the CPU temperature with an application called "Everest Ultimate Edition" (http://www.lavalys.com/), and it has been varying between about 70° (for word processing and general work) to 85° (for very processor intensive work). It has never gone higher than 85°, and this is with no fan of any kind.

I am still waiting for IBM Canada to send me a replacement fan. Not to get off topic, but the warranty support service in Canada is horrible, absolutely horrible. I have always been willing to pay a premium for ThinkPads in the past because of the excellent worldwide service, but the delays I have encountered getting a replacement fan are now making me wonder if IBM has changed for the worse.

Michael