Question for Canadians buying T42 in the states...

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yellow_lenghan · #1 Post by **yellow_lenghan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:50 pm

I am planning to buy a thinkpad from the states (probably from Bill, as IBM-Canada prices are outrageous), and I wish to know how Canadians get taxed at the borders. Federal Tax only (GST) or Fed Tax AND Provincial Tax (PST)?

I think it could change depending on the province you are recieving the thinkpad, so please share your personal experiences.

From the little informations I gathered from Internet (Government sites are such a maze) and phone calls, I think that importation for commercial use is taxed with GST only, while importation for personal use is taxed with both GST and PST. But I am not really sure about that as I got divided responses. (And If I dare to ask, is it possible to make borders belief I order my thinkpad for commercial use? )

For exemple, www.ecost.com is a USA seller that has a partnership with Borderfree (canadian customs broker), and if I buy from this site, I'll only get taxed for GST according to their chart: http://www.ecost.com/ecost/information/ ... nada.asp#f

So please, enlightened me on this subject: If I am in Quebec and buy a thinkpad from Bill or another USA reseller, will I get charged both taxes or only GST?

Thank you in advance. (I hope to get many answers

)

Quattro · #2 Post by **Quattro** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:01 pm

If they mark the package as a 'gift', you are less likely to pay duty. The package will be subject to GST/PST based on the declared value. Also, if you ship UPS, they have outrageous brokerage charges for packages coming into Canada. My advice is to use regular US Post/Canada Post to at lease avoid some fees.

yellow_lenghan · #3 Post by **yellow_lenghan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:12 pm

thank you for answering Quattro.

From what I heard, the "gift"thing doesn't work when the item you are buying worth a lot (as a notebook).

Based on your recommendation, I'll try to avoid UPS.

But for the taxes, are you absolutely certain both taxes are applicable? If yes, how come I would only pay one tax if I buy from ecost/borderfree system?

lfeagan · #4 Post by **lfeagan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:07 pm

Okay, I am not suggetsting you actually do this as it would be flat out lying, but if you declare it as "Return for repairs, no commercial value" then it won't get taxed at all.

hiengu · #5 Post by **hiengu** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:16 pm

I'm from Vancouver, BC and got a laptop from the USA. I paid both PST and GST. My laptop was shipped 2 day Airborne Express with tracking/insurance. They actually held my laptop at customs since anything over $1600 requires pre-payment of custom charges before delivery.

I've used UPS before and they seem to always charge an extra $30 for brokerage fees so I avoid them. I don't recommend shipping USPS since there is no tracking. When it comes to high priced items, I normally use courier service for peace of mind and fast shipping.

It's true that if you can get the seller to mark it as repair or demo, then you won't get taxed but that's not technically legal.

lfeagan · #6 Post by **lfeagan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:20 pm

lol, hehe, I know its illegal...but I was just mentioning it as an "for instance" example of how to not get charged customs
UPS charges more because they actually hand walk the item through customs and make sure it gets through alright.

hiengu · #7 Post by **hiengu** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:47 pm

lfeagan, is your 14.1" UXGA+ a typo? Thought it would be a SXGA+ unless you somehow modded it.

pphilipko · #8 Post by **pphilipko** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:53 pm

When I bought mine, I only had to pay both taxes; didn't get any duty after arguing with customs for three hours.

VC15 · #9 Post by **VC15** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:57 pm

I'm from Ontario and I bought my T42 from Bill recently. I had to pay both the PST and GST on the declared value. I'm assuming that Quebec is the same. Not sure about the UPS thing since mine was FedEx'ed. But even with both taxes included I still saved around $500 - $600 CAD. Hope that helps you out.

shyguy · #10 Post by **shyguy** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:51 am

i'm living in ontario, too. i had to pay both of them, GST and PST.
unless you take it from across the border or other provinces(ie. AB),
you need to get lucky.

esquire · #11 Post by **esquire** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:08 pm

In my case I got lucky. I'm a canadian but I work for an american company....so when I was in washington they ordered my thinkpad for me, got it tax free

Hmmmm but in your case I would get someone in the states to order it for you and then you can take a trip to meet them to pick it up. Easy.

Kingsley · #12 Post by **Kingsley** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:35 pm

Purchased my T41 from Bill. (great service, thanks Bill) I believe I paid both PST and GST.

UPS was a pain. The computer arrived in Canada overnight but then spent a couple of days being suffled between UPS and Canada Customs. At one point UPS accidentally put it on their truck for delivery the next day instead of holding it for pick up as requested, and once that happened there was no way they were going to go out to the truck to get it back. If you have a choice I'd try another delivery service.

Kingsley Bowles

hausman · #13 Post by **hausman** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:38 pm

1. The tax threshold for "gifts" entering Canada is CA$60 (US$49 and climbing.) You can't buy much of a ThinkPad for that

No reputable seller will mislabel a shipment as a gift or understate the price on the customs invoice because (a) it's unethical and (b) it's a criminal offense. (That aside, if you try a "Return for repairs, no commercial value" think about how you'll respond when Canada Customs asks for original proof of purchase.)

2. Never, ever, use UPS for cross-border shipments because their brokerage fees are outrageous. (Don't get me started on the details.) My recommendation is FedEx International. It may cost ~$50 on a ThinkPad but that will include brokerage, something for which UPS could charge for alone, and you'll get it the next day, guaranteed.

3. At the border you'll be charged both GST and PST (unless you live in a province or territory that doesn't have PST.) There is no duty on PCs.

4. You didn't ask, but IBM's warranty is worldwide, so you'll be able to get it serviced here without hassle. (That's not true of some other vendors; i.e. US serial numbers may not be eligible for free warranty service in Canada.)

lfeagan · #14 Post by **lfeagan** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:46 pm

Ah yes, good point....so called white box items. That is nice that IBM has a world-wide warranty. You should see if you can find a friend in the states who lives near you, that would be a really easy way to handle things. One of the better ideas I have heard really.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Circumvention, its not just a game, its a way of life

PaulB · #15 Post by **PaulB** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:21 pm

I live in Ottawa and had my Thinkpad shipped to Ogdensburg NY (about an hour's drive) where I picked it up and brought it across the border myself. And yes, I did declare it and paid GST/PST.

You can have parcels shipped at the following address (there is a $5 holding fee per box):

Roethel Parcel Service
1801 Ford Street,
Ogdensburg, NY, 13669
(315) 393-4770

Ogdensburg is a 2 hour drive from Montreal.

hausman · #16 Post by **hausman** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:28 pm

PaulB wrote:You can have parcels shipped at the following address (there is a $5 holding fee per box)

If the shipper sends by USPS, you can also have Uncle Sam hold it at his nearest post office by addressing the package to "General Delivery." As far as I know there's no charge for this.
http://www.usps.com/receive/choicesford ... places.htm

yellow_lenghan · #17 Post by **yellow_lenghan** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:54 pm

Thank you all for your numerous answers... it is really appreciated!

To sum it up:
- Both taxes have to be paid to be legit.
- Avoid UPS if possible.
- Go pick up you notebook on the other side of the border might save you some money in international shipping.

hausman wrote:My recommendation is FedEx International. It may cost ~$50 on a ThinkPad but that will include brokerage, something for which UPS could charge for alone, and you'll get it the next day, guaranteed.
3. At the border you'll be charged both GST and PST (unless you live in a province or territory that doesn't have PST.) There is no duty on PCs.

Is brokerage fee and duty fee the same thing? If not please explain the difference. If it's the same thing, wouldn't it be better to take Fedex Ground instead of Fedex International to save some money on the ~$50, as there wont be any brokerage/duty fee on notebook?

hausman · #18 Post by **hausman** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:37 pm

yellow_lenghan wrote:Go pick up you notebook on the other side of the border might save you some money in international shipping.

It might, but only if you live near the border. IMO the chap in Ottawa who has to drive 4 hours return to the US will probably burn more gas than the $50 cost of shipping, nevermind the time that's wasted.

Is brokerage fee and duty fee the same thing? If not please explain the difference. If it's the same thing, wouldn't it be better to take Fedex Ground instead of Fedex International to save some money on the ~$50, as there wont be any brokerage/duty fee on notebook?

They're different things. Duty is a form of tax that the federal government imposes on certain imports in order to create a financial barrier for foreign-made goods that compete with similar domestic goods. Under NAFTA there's generally no duty on goods that cross the borders between Canada, US and Mexico. (But the softwood lumber dispute is a counterexample.)

Brokerage fees are what the various shipping companies charge for their time and paperwork in getting the package through the customs people. Even when no duty is payable, they still have to convert the package value to CA$ and then calculate the amount of GST and PST owing. Usually they pre-pay the GST/PST at customs on your behalf in order to expedite clearance, then charge you for it on or after delivery. UPS uses this to exploit its customers with outrageously high brokerage fees. FedEx, by contrast includes this in the shipping fee. (You'll still get an invoice from them for the GST/PST they paid for you.) And Canada Post/USPS will charge a flat $5 handling fee for anything that they have to collect the GST/PST for.

lvlolvlo · #19 Post by **lvlolvlo** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:09 am

well it is my understanding that you wont be paying any kind of tax GST or PST. more like you'd be paying duty...U.S. tarrif. and if i am not mistaken i don't believe it should be more than 10%...i'm pretty confident on this but not 100%

yellow_lenghan · #20 Post by **yellow_lenghan** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:26 am

Thank you for your helpful answer, hausman.

lvlolvlo, if you go read all the replies on the first page of this thread, you will see that the canadian government never miss a chance to apply its taxes.

hausman · #21 Post by **hausman** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:37 am

lvlolvlo wrote:well it is my understanding that you wont be paying any kind of tax GST or PST. more like you'd be paying duty...U.S. tarrif. and if i am not mistaken i don't believe it should be more than 10%...i'm pretty confident on this but not 100%

It's just the opposite. You have to pay GST/PST on all imports but there are no duties on ThinkPads (and other computers from the US.)

lvlolvlo · #22 Post by **lvlolvlo** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:20 pm

hausman wrote:
lvlolvlo wrote:well it is my understanding that you wont be paying any kind of tax GST or PST. more like you'd be paying duty...U.S. tarrif. and if i am not mistaken i don't believe it should be more than 10%...i'm pretty confident on this but not 100%
It's just the opposite. You have to pay GST/PST on all imports but there are no duties on ThinkPads (and other computers from the US.)

you're right...as i was poting that i knew it didn't make sense b/c if i were in Canada and bought something I could reclaim the PST and GST on it but then would be subject to US tax(duty)...just the same the other way i suppose.....

in the famous words of Homer J. Simpson..."Doh!"

Question for Canadians buying T42 in the states...

Question for Canadians buying T42 in the states...

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