T42 Hi-speed USB device plugged into non-Hi Speed port

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geluidsgolf · #1 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:55 am

Dear all,

Since a while I have got a problem with the USB ports on my Thinkpad T42 type: 2374 modelnr: D38

When I plug my portable Western Digital 250gig Harddisk wich supports USB 2.0 into one of the 2 ports on my thinkpad (I tried both and also without a mouse) I get a small USB icon in the system tray and when I click on it I see the message:

"The USB Mass Storage Device is a HI-SPEED USB device and will function at reduced speed when plugged into a non-HI Speed port."

Then it says:

"The hubs shown in bold type have free ports that support the HI-SPeed USB device"
(I can see an enhanced controller there so it should be usb 2.0)

When I close the message the icon dissappears from the tray...
I can copy files with a maximum speed varying between 500 to 900kbs from my portable hd to my thinkpad.

I never had this problem before, does anyone know what the problem could be??

Thanks alot!

greetings,

Eelke

aaa · #2 Post by **aaa** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:32 pm

Loose solder joints. Sign of worse things to come, pretty hard to fix without replacing the motherboard.

See the "t42 shuts down when i move it:" sticky.

geluidsgolf · #3 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:51 pm

You are kidding right.... xxxx it's just 2 months out of warrenty

MOD EDIT: Please keep your language clean.

geluidsgolf · #4 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:29 am

Anybody else can shed some light on this subject??

Any things I can do about it?

aaa · #5 Post by **aaa** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:06 pm

Well there was the "hot air gun" method, which was mentioned in the thread I think (and there's video of a guy doing it on youtube). Probably might want to wait til it actually starts crashing before you try that though.

geluidsgolf · #6 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:15 pm

so it's 100% that this is caused by a solder problem?? It sounds so strange to me...

No drivers or whatever I can fix

#7 Post by **richk** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:18 pm

I've never been convinced that the USB running at slower speed is at all related to the graphics chip prfoblem that causes crashing and demands a new motherboard. It has always been my theory that the USB problem has been caused by a device drawing more power than the port can provide, and burning out a resistor. I have never spent enough time with a board exhibiting the failure to try to check out what's wrong, especially since you cannot get a circuit diagram.

geluidsgolf · #8 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:36 pm

is it possible at all to fix this kind of problem without replacing the motherboard..

#9 Post by **richk** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:45 pm

If I knew what piece failed, I might be able to fix it, but it is impossible to tell without spending some time with a circuit diagram. If it were mine, I would do a factory install on a different disk and test with a low-power device (like a memory stick) to be sure there was really a hardware problem.

geluidsgolf · #10 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:51 pm

well I upgraded my Harddisk so it should be possible to put my old HD wich has a different installation and see if the same problems happens...

By the way I just used a Mouse and that Western Digital USB 2.0 Harddisk so you recon that the Harddisk took too much power?

Is there any way of avoiding this problem in the future might I get a new laptop?

Thanks alot so far!

cozzykim · #11 Post by **cozzykim** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:54 am

Ive got three other machines in my house (all running XP) and they *all* do this depending on what USB device I plug into them.

My T41p also has PCLinuxOS on the hidden partition and runs all the same USB devices at full speed whereas WinXP doesn't.

XP and Roxio6 also won't always burn a DVD successfullyon my T41p, sometimes just freezing at around 40% burn - Again, Linux has NO PROBLEM with the same hardware.

I'm convinced that these problems are OS/driver related.

Anyone else done any similar tests?

Regards

Kim

#12 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:00 am

I've spent some time with at least a dozen T40's and I've seen the problem a bunch of times.

It seems that there are two categories or types of problems, 1) ports won't ever run at 2.0 speeds or are dead, 2) ports occasionally don't run at 2.0 speeds.

I've heard from IBM (and Dell) reps. that at least the first problem is caused by too much static electricity being transferred (discharged into) the motherboard during an insertion of a USB device. Too large a static discharge will render the USB ports dead or half dead, apparently.

The second scenario seems to be related to the actual USB device that you plug in and/or how much current it is drawing - and possibly the O.S. (a.k.a. drivers).

I have one USB 2.0 memory stick that will generally produce the error no matter what machine I put it in - even Dell desktops, but not every time!!!

I have also seen the error with base XP images on T40's. Then I've seen it go away for good after all XP and IBM patches are done. It could be just the wrong combination of drivers?

It is a tough one to figure out. But remember one thing, T40's were the first T-series with USB 2.0 ports, so there is always a chance it's a combination of things causing the issue(s), including possibly a chip design weakness/bug or slight differences from USB controller chips being sources from various manufacturers/production runs.

Not sure how much this helps, other than to say, you're definitely not alone and you should thorougly troubleshoot prior to swapping mobo's. Trying a fresh install on another drive is a great troubleshooting method.

geluidsgolf · #13 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:02 am

So I put in my OLD harddisk and plugged in the portable Western Digital USB Harddisk and exactly the same thing happened again...

So im almost certain it's an hardware problem...

Now I called a guy who is fixing thinkpad's for a living and he never heard of the problem that the solders where loose, he thinks probably the chipset is broken....

That burned resistor might be a possible option too...

Nevertheless there's no other way to fix this then to buy a new motherboard....

I thought IBM was one of the most robust laptops in the industry and I take very good care of them but this is the 2nd machine I have to replace the motherboard for a USB related problem....

Sigh

#14 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:02 am

geluidsgolf · #15 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:22 am

So at the end I still don't know anything.. People are convinced it's an software problem (BIOS/SP2 upgrade) and me too because the strongest argument is several users had the problem right after upgrading to SP2

But still I can't find any solution any other then buying a PCMCIA card with USB ports...
Problem is though I already use a PCMCIA to get firewire and any PCMCIA that combines USB and Firewire doesn't work on the Texas Instruments chipset wich is needed to let my PRO Soundcard work and putting another PCMCIA card in my other slot is impossible cause they are so [censored] big

..

#16 Post by **richk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:03 am

If you decide to replace the board, I am interested is trying to diagnose the cause on the old board. I have never had access to one where it was clearly hardware, so I can only speculate on the cause

geluidsgolf · #17 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:26 am

IMPORTANT UPDATE

I just pressed on my Laptop abit in the area where my USB ports are and right after connected my HD and it worked on usb 2.0
Unfortunately when I started copying files I got the dreaded message again and it stopped copying...

So I guess it's hardware related...

About sending the motherboard... If I replace it I can send it to you but keep in mind in from Netherlands so it can be expensive and you will have to pay all costs...

cozzykim · #18 Post by **cozzykim** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:14 am

Has anybody else compared Linux and XP on this issue?

Surely somebody else has both on their T41??

I've said before in a previous thread, the "This device blah blah" message in XP goes away if I unplug and re-plug the device several times and then runs at full speed again, maybe there's more than just one reason for this problem

all devices run at full speed in Linux

Regards

Kim

geluidsgolf · #19 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:23 am

all I know from what I read in the other threads is that some users have the same problem in linux... usb 1.1 works without problems but usb 2.0 doesn't work...
some even reported when they started using usb 2.0 all the usb didn't work anymore...

Kim one question for you on what kind of speed does your USB 2.0 work in Linux? (for instance if you copy a file from a portable Harddisk)

Are you sure it's not just working in usb 1.1 ??

cozzykim · #20 Post by **cozzykim** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:50 am

Hi,
the difference can be seen immediately mostly when copying jpg or avi files from my camera SD cards.

In XP when the fallback message comes up the files take an age to copy, I've never timed it but probably 10* the USB2 time.

Linux just never does this, it always copies files at full speed, a couple of mins probably for a 1G card.

My point is:- the difference in speed is obvious and only happens in XP.

I have read some of the other threads but must admit I haven't seen any other complaints about Linux USB speeds.

If somebody says definitively "my T4x does this in both XP and Linux" then I suppose I'll happily shut up

Regards

Kim

geluidsgolf · #21 Post by **geluidsgolf** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:22 pm

You have got a really strong point in my opinion...

Is there any easy fast way for me for instance Running Linux from a CD and testing the USB to see if this goes for my system as well???

It's alot of work to dual boot my laptop with linux just for testing this theory

cozzykim · #22 Post by **cozzykim** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:05 pm

No problem,

download a PCLinuxOS iso from HERE

Burn it to a CD (dont forget, you have to make a bootable disc !! )

Stick it in your CD/DVD drive and reboot - that's it

I love PCLinuxOS, it's the only live distro (AFAIK) that configures wpa encryption (wpa-supplicant) correctly after finding my T41 wireless card, just type my network key into the box and away she goes

I've got Knoppix, Mandriva, Suse, Ubuntu etc live CDs, none of them configured wpa out of the box.

Let us know how you get on if you try it

P.S. I'm by no means a Linux expert but I'll try to help if you need it.

P.P.S. please don't be tempted to install to your hard disk if you're not familiar with the process

EDIT: it just occurred to me; you can read from an NTFS partition in Linux but you can't write to it so to check transfer speeds you could write pics or mp3s from your hard drive to an SD card or from the SD card to an external (USB) FAT16/32 drive

sorry if this is gettin' complicated

Regards

Kim

T42 Hi-speed USB device plugged into non-Hi Speed port

T42 Hi-speed USB device plugged into non-Hi Speed port

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