T42p: Do I really need a new motherboard?

[sjh953]

OK. I give up. I've got a T42p (2373-Q1U) which is randomly hanging when I leave the machine sitting unused for awhile. Up until a week or so ago, it was also hanging while I was working on it; cursor/kb would freeze, but system itself seemed to show activity in taskbar,. Only way in all cases to free the system was to pull battery/ac, and restart.

When the problem was at it's worst, I called IBM. After two calls, they said I needed to send the machine in for a new motherboard. I've got the box sitting here, ready to go. My impression, however, is that the 'need new mb' is a stock response, not necessarily related to my issue.

Before shipping it in, I wanted to tap into the expertise here.

When the hangs first started, I saw in the Event Viewer that I'd get a string of five ACPIEC errors spaced exactly five second apart. I believe ACPIEC has something to do with temperature or graphics monitoring. I found that tpfancontrol had a utility which disabled these message in Event Viewer with a Registry tweak. This seemed to work. I don't get the hangs while actively using the machine; it's now only when it's been sitting for awhile. (When it does hang, the screen is black - even tho I have the power setting to not turn off display when on ac power. The fan is also running pretty fast, and the air exiting the vent seems warmer than usual. Again, this happens when the machine is not being used.)

One thing I've done which might be causing this is that when I first got the tp, I didn't realize the cd/dvd and Li-ion battery which goes in the cd slot weren't hot swappable. Several times I just ejected them without using the EasyEject utility. I've since learned that this bay is connected to ACPI somehow, so I may have screwed up a file or something. I don't know.

I've only had this machine a few months. It is a NEW machine which for whatever reason had never been used prior to my buying it. When I first got it, I used it infrequently and so didn't notice any problems. Now, since it's on and in use all day, I'm running into this problem with random hangs.

I'm hesitant to ship to IBM because I'm not convinced it is a hardware/mb issue. I'm up to date on Windows updates, and think I've got most of the IBM updates in place. I'm running bios 3.23. I've tried backing off on the ATI settings in the Display control panel, but I still get hangs.

While all of the above could indeed be a hardware problem, I can't help but think it's somehow software -- a setting somewhere, a driver issue I'm missing, a screwed up preferences file. (In fact, it does remind me of times in my Mac days when either Word or Photoshop would get crazy, and to fix it all I had to do was delete the Preference file, and be good to go again.)

My fear is that I've got a wonderful machine that is 98% perfect. If I send it in to IBM, and it is a software problem, my hangs will return as soon as I reinstall my hard drive. If IBM somehow messes up the machine itself, I'll be in worse shape than I am now. (I upgraded the hd to a Hitachi 7K100; I'd send in the original 60gb, which is in factory-new with no changes.)

I'd appreciate any advice I can get from people who may either have a solution, or can reassure me that I'd be OK sending the machine in to IBM.

Thanks for listening. Sorry this post is so long.

[richk]

The message is related to the ACPI (power) functions in the BIOS or Embedded Controller. I would first make sure I had the latest versions of both. Having done that, if the problem persisted, I would back up my HDD and restore to out-of-box condition. Having done that, if the problem persisted, I would guess the problem is hardware. Assuming your machine is under warranty, I would send it in for service.

[Harryc]

I'd swap in the original 60GB with the factory fresh and see if the problem occurs. Don't install any software or utilities for a couple of days to test.

[Johan]

I also have a T42p identical to yours, 2373-Q1U (bought as "re-manufactured" this spring, but appearing brand new in all respects!). I set up the freshly formatted harddisk then, using the IBM Rescue & Recovery Media (installing Win XP Pro), with subsequent Windows and IBM drivers update etc.

As I wanted a low-noise ThinkPad, I installed the (free and highly recommended!) Notebook Hardware Control utility. In order to control fan speed, I got the T43p ACPI-file, and successfully modified it for use in my T42p (more information about how to do all of this, see the above-mentioned thread, the post of Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:46 am). I also downclocked the GPU and undervolted the CPU, to reduce power consumption, hence reduce heat and in turn make the fan go "on" more seldom. All this has worked very well since the spring; only two crashes, as far as I recall, and I may perhaps have been the root cause of at least one of them (forcing abruptly shutdown of services, which ought not to have been disabled!).

I could have chosen to install the ThinkPad Fan Control Utility by Shiomodax, but I went with NHC, and don't regret this (I never got around to try Shimodax' utility). You could... perhaps try disable your present fan control, and try NHC in stead? It's for free!

PS: Did you check the thread Again: ACPIEC Event Log problem on the T43 (Solution) - you're not alone with ACPIEC-problems!

Anyway, what would I do in your situation? I completely agree that I would try to fix this by myself, before sending the T42p off for repair. So... what to do? First, run the PC-Doctor program, which is part of the IBM pre-installed software (Start --> All programs --> PC-Doctor). Run a complete test and see if it finds anything. How about RAM failure??

If nothing found this way, get a diagnostics program for your harddisk. If you go to T42, clicking noise question? (see the post of Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:30 pm), you will find links to such test tools for various laptop HDD drives, incl. your Hitachi drive. Try that?

I am sorry if the above is of no help... but let me know if you want me to carry out any tests on a healthy 2373-Q1U.

Don't give up hope!!

Best regards,

Johan

[sjh953]

Thanks everyone for your input. When I have a chance, I'll install the original 60gb drive and see if the machine hangs with an unaltered disk. That would at least answer the question of whether I've installed something that's causing the trouble.

In the meantime, I'm investigating NHC. [Your various posts, Johan, have been invaluable. Thanks for going to the trouble of collecting all that information.] I'm letting NHC control ACPI, and using some undervolt settings Johan posted in another thread for his own T42. I'll find out soon enough if it works.

QUESTION: What are the trade-off's with undervolting in terms of performance? Less heat and more battery time are good -- but what's the impact on how the system performs? I can't imagine there's not a downside.

Again, thanks for all the help.

[agarza]

QUESTION: What are the trade-off's with undervolting in terms of performance? Less heat and more battery time are good -- but what's the impact on how the system performs? I can't imagine there's not a downside.

There are no trade-offs, at load your machine CPU would be more cool and in the long run you will have a long lasting CPU because it's operating at lower temperatures.

I agree with the posters above, install the original HDD and see if it's not a software issue. I'm also a T42p proud owner and no problems whatsoever, but I prefer having Windows installed my way. I don't like OEM preinstalls.

[sktn77a]

Actually, I suspect at some point the computer will crash if you undervolt it too much. How much is too much? Who knows. But our experience with overvolting and overclocking suggests not that much.

The Thinkpad shouldn't need undervolting to work properly. I suspect you have an O/S problem (which you can test with your original HDD) or the dreaded T4x motherboard problem (defective soldering of certain components eg the graphics chip) in which case, you really have no option but to return it for a new mobo.

I returned my computer for the dead USB/dead mobo syndrome and had it back within a week of calling the IBM Tech Support group. So my experience was quite positive.

[Johan]

@ sjh953: Just out of curiosity, I wonder how this "affair" all ended? Did you manage to fix this problem by yourself, or did you have to send your T42p for repair? WAS is a motherboard issue, and was the cause something else?

Thanks in advance for providing a small update, if possible!

Best regards,

Johan

[sjh953]

Johan -- I guess we know now why you're the in-house expert on all things T42. You really stay on top of the issues.

As for my problem from October, I can happily report that the crashing simply stopped on its own. I never did send the computer back to IBM.

My guess is that a preference file became corrupted at some point -- but over time got rewritten correctly, and this solved the problem. I didn't do anything other than hang on as the crashes got fewer and fewer, and then stopped. I don't know why.

Again, Johan, thanks for all the information you provide on the T42 series. I've bookmarked quite a few of your posts and links, and they've been a great aid in helping me understand how to get the most from my machine. Very much appreciated.