t22 vs t42 build quality....

[SimonCC]

I checked out my friend's new t22 today (off of ebay of course) and was astounded at just how good the build quality was. When i picked it up there was no flex whatsoever and the cd rom drive just looked better fitted, like it would stand the test of time (please see my link belloe 'wonky dvd drive' on this topic!). I am the proud owner of a t42 and i have to say that every day when i pick it up to put it into my bag, the top of it (lcd cover) does flex a bit, why has ibm allowed this to happen, perhaps a revert back to t22 build qulaity is needed here?? Of course there is no technical comparison bettween the two models, but in terms of build quality it is sturdier, lighter, and almost just as thin!

It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on this....

[controlit]

interesting...i have a T-22 and am in love with the build quality...I am eventually going to order a T-42 and would be disappointed if it was not as sturdy...

[daeojkim]

Have you considered how much T22 weighs and how thick it is? I think T42's are significantly thinner and lighter than T22. Well this my first thinkpad and it feels quite sturdy for me. I carry it around almost everyday and iam hoping that it will last for at least 3 years before I get a T82??? (I am sure we will have dual core processor on laptops by then)

Anyways about the CD-ROM in ultra slim bay. I do agree that it does not seem to fit exactly. There are gaps around the drive, especially the top right side of the drive. It does not wobble, but I would thinks that if that gap was not there it would be better.

Anyways I am happy with what I have

[BillMorrow]

everyone seems to forget that the T20 series had a problem with the top part of the case cracking when people would pick it up holding it by the front of the palm rest..

[Plinkerton]

I think the gap around the disc drive is there for a reason. I've heard it's bigger to accomodate the extra HD adapter.

[skanky]

..i heard it was to allow ex-KGB spies to gain easier access to your computer.

i may be lying here :p

[Steve007]

I checked out my friend's new t22 today (off of ebay of course) and was astounded at just how good the build quality was. When i picked it up there was no flex whatsoever and the cd rom drive just looked better fitted, like it would stand the test of time (please see my link belloe 'wonky dvd drive' on this topic!). I am the proud owner of a t42 and i have to say that every day when i pick it up to put it into my bag, the top of it (lcd cover) does flex a bit, why has ibm allowed this to happen, perhaps a revert back to t22 build qulaity is needed here?? Of course there is no technical comparison bettween the two models, but in terms of build quality it is sturdier, lighter, and almost just as thin!

It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on this....

The build quality of the T2x series was more sturdy than the T4x series agreed, but they were a hell of a lot heavier and thicker. You have to remember they were also priced very high whereas the T4x series is a lot more affordable. Basically the T4x series cost us a lot less to manufacture than previous ThinkPad models so you can't really complain

As for build quality, in my opinion nothing has beaten the 600X, that was built like a tank!

[SimonCC]

I disagree, the t22 is only marginally thicker and heavier. I know people at work that have had their t22s for years and they have experinced no cracks etc. The t42 flexes all over, there is no doubt about it, its not just mine, it is the same with other t42s ive seen, i even experienced it on my old t41. Its a quality issue that i think ibm need to be aware of and as for 'well they are cheaper to produce now so you should be happy' - thats ridiculous, ibms are top notch machines that are highly priced anyway, im sure i do not speak alone when i say that i would be willing to pay more to resolve this issue (in manufacturing terms, an increase in qulaity of materails, build etc would not necessarily translate into a serious price mark up on t4x models).

Lets hear from some more t22 & t4x users!

[Raindrop]

After using an T22 for almost three years I certainly can't complain about the overall build quality of the basic form factor. However, I can say that given the problems I had with my hard drives, motherboard, screen, etc. that I wasn't all that impressed with the overall quality of the internals. I was fortunate enough to receive a T40 in exchange from IBM due to all the problems and have to say that I couldn't be happier. The only thing I had to do was insert a "blank" credit card over the top of the PC cards slot and the palm rest on that side and all my creaking problems went away. The thinner form factor, lighter weight, along with the upgraded processor make it a no brainer for me. While I don't know if there is that much difference between the various T4x machines, the fact that the machine runs SO MUCH cooler is also a big plus.

[SimonCC]

Fair enought, obviously there is no technological comparison bettween the two, but no creaking and no flexing are qualities that should be restored to the t4x series, qualities that are, on the whole, evident in the t2x series.

[JaneL]

>I disagree, the t22 is only marginally thicker and heavier.
>

Depends on your definition of marginally. Let's just check out the specs.

From tabook and tawbook:

T22 14.1" screen 12.0"x9.8"x1.3"
5.6lb with cd/dvd drive and battery

T42 14.1" screen 12.2"x10.0"x1.0-1.2"
4.9-5.0lb with cd/dvd drive and battery

Half a pound is quite a bit of weight to me, but I have back and shoulder problems.

>I know people at work that have had their t22s for years and they have experinced no cracks etc.
>

And I've seen many T2x models, including my T23, with the cracks.

[Plinkerton]

Boy nonny, you really showed him...

[kjarrett]

I used a T21, pounded on it for 70+ hours a week for 4 years. Palmrest cracked halfway through, I didn't care, I got a new one installed (not warrantied) and it was like a new machine, no problems after that.

I have a 15" T42p and there is NO flex WHATSOEVER on this machine. It is as sturdy as my T21 was. Granted, it's larger, but, I consider the build quality to be nearly identical.

Just my $0.02...

-kj-

[think]

@ SimonCC

I know what you mean, I had the same impression when I got my first T40. It looked not that thiner and lighter.
I had the feeling the T2x keyboard was better (it was: chin.), the T2x had no touchpad and it was a little more rounded ?
And I even liked the colour of the T2x more, it was some sort of blacker, the T4x is reflecting a little bit.
But all of this will go away soon. Now I worship my T40s, particular my (new) T42p (thanks) as much as I did my T2x´s.
In the first impression the T2x series seems sturdier, but it isn´t. The new material of the T4x case is lighter but very robust. I made some experiences with dropped Tpads (not mine) and the T4x can take a lot more than the T2x.

And think of it: there is no alternative, we have to go on.

I love IBM

I still use my T21, I did the case cracking by myself as Bill said, but it doesn´t disturb me that much I kept it, the keyboard is just fine, typing is a joy.

[SimonCC]

Maybe these are just first impressions as i havent had my t42 for long (around a month and a half), i guess only time will tell!

[beeblebrox]

I do own a T20 and a T40p and came to the same conclusion: the machines are similar but the T40 is a great evolution. While I do not see any significant difference in weight (T40p has a large battery), the T40p is larger but thinner on its base, which makes typing more comfortable, and putting it into Samsonites much easier.

I experienced a few surprising problems with the T20 - the famous crack next to the cursor keys -> design error, too much stress load on 3mm of plastics on that spot, then almost all components died within a few weeks, LCD cable broke, TFT became spotty, HDD started to sirr, DVD terminated operation and then the motherboard silently died.

The good news was: that all happened 4 weeks before the end of warranty !!!
The best news was: IBM exchanged everything but the keyboard, so I got a brandnew machine.

The T40p is, in my opinion, way better in every respect. The housing material is no more polycarbon-like stuff, that just breaks under stress, but is more flexible. However, it creaks all the time, which is annoying. IBM solved that problem with the larger 15" models, which are like the T2x series again.
When IBM designed the notebooks they made a few little mistakes, eg. the missing screw next to the cursor keys to tight that creaking palm rest. Further they forgot to test the ThinkLight, which shines straight into the eyes, a tiny 5 mm front cover would have solved the problem (like on the T20, where it is recessed)

Of course, the electronics in the T2x series is antique and slow, compared to a T40.
Further, I had the impression, that the Pentium M runs cooler than the PIII, which is true only in office work! When checking the technical data, both processors have similar power wattage (25-30W), and with the larger cooling system of the T22, the T2x series stays at 50° in office working mode, just as my T40p, which has a fan running all the time to keep temperature low.
(Now, that endless running fan is really annoying!)
The T40p is NOT a portable workstation, as promoted by IBM. When I had to do computer simulations, including 3D graphics, the system just throttled after a few minutes due to overheating. That is not acceptable. IBM then changed my cooling system, but that didn't help much. I have to take out the DVD to let fresh air in. The little hole in the bottom next to the GPU is a joke.

In contrast, the T20 (with 900Mhz and large cooling system) ran a week-long simulation without problem at 65°C.

To be fair, as far as I know, IBM does not produce any notebooks anymore, they all come from the same factories, that do Acers, Dells, Apples, etc. It's all Wistron, Compal, Quanta, etc. And, they are way cheaper to produce in a Chinese sweatshop, than in Greenock. IBM is doing only the design (Yokohama?!).

But IBM should put more emphasis on quality control at their OEM sites.
I have seen the problems in quality in the last 2 years (all ThinkPads (!!!) that we ordered were in need of repair when we received them. All problems were sloppy manufacturing and missing quality assurance!)

Nevertheless, when you had to work with Compaqs or Sonys, you are thankful, when you get to typing on the thinkpad keyboard again. And the T40 has the best keyboard of all.

[SimonCC]

Beeblebrox, that is a very well balanced asessment and im glad someone aside from myself does recognise the lapses in quality control within IBM.

[Elhabash]

At least the customer service is still as good as it's reputation, as far as I can tell from the posts in this forum.
A friend of mine once had to bring a Compaq Notabook for repairs on the harddrive (When it still was Compaq), and what he told me sounds like a nightmare compared to the stories on this board...

I Am quite happy with the quality of my t40p, with the little exceptions beeblebrox already pointed out.

[K. Eng]

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents, although I've done so many times on this subject.

I've played around with T23 and T30 machines, so I can't say how they hold up in the long term, but I always had the impression that they were very very solid machines. They didn't creak, and they didn't flex.

I've had my T40 since May 2003, and although it is a good machine, it does flex a bit more than I like. The base and LCD housing just don't feel as solid as the T23 and T30 series. However, the machine as a whole feels much much better than a lot of stuff from Dell, HP, and others.

The palmrest plastic is a bit thin in some places too - I have a bit of creakiness in the left palmrest.

People with the 15" T42 machines have no complaints. I know someone with a 15" T42, and it is really solid compared to the 14" T4x, although it seems pretty big compared to the 14".