T42p: WLAN-swap (Intel to Atheros): Advantages/difficulties?

[Johan]

Greetings, gentlemen/-women!

I would very much appreciate the true ThinkPad-experts advice on this question, since I am not really sure that whether the following "idea" will work, if I proceed. The issue is this:

I have a T42p model 2373-Q1U which has the ”IBM 11a/b/g wireless: ThinkPad 11a/b/g Mini PCI Adapter II, Atheros AR5004X chip” (FRU P/N 93P4262), i.e. Atheros chipset. The WLAN in this T42p has worked very well. Recently, I have acquired a backup T42p for the above; this backup being a 2373-Q2U which has the Intel 11b/g wireless: Mini PCI, Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG, Intel 82532 chipset (FRU P/N 93P3483), i.e. the Intel ”Centrino” chipset (this information also found in the ltwbook, on page 61).

I would like to transform, if possible, the ”new” 2373-Q2U into a –Q1U, so that I can directly swap the harddrive from the main machine (this being the original –Q1U) to the –Q2U, in the case the –Q1U should fail, and I therefore need to go to the –Q2U. My questions now are:

a) Is such a ”transformation” actually possible, and can I simply take the HDD from the –Q1U and put in the –Q2U if the WLAN miniPCI's are identical, and if the amount of RAM is also identical?

b) If swapping the Intel-based miniPCI in the –Q2U (93P3483) to the Atheros-based miniPCI (93P4262), will the MAC address in the –Q2U in this case, after the swap, be identical to that printed at the bottom of the 2373-Q2U?? (are MAC-addresses hardcoded in the BIOS or on the mainboard, or are they in the coded in the miniPCI itself??)

c) Do I risk any sort of ”confusion” if taking the HDD from the ”native” –Q1U and mounting it in the –Q2U? (I know that the –Q2U only has a CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo and that the –Q1U has a CD-RW/DVD-RW, but apart from that I believe they are identical).

d) Is it difficult to replace (swap) the WLAN miniPCI in a 15” T42p, if only having the instructions in the Hardware Maintenance Manual - ThinkPad T40, T40p, T41, T41p, T42, T42p?

e) What happens at boot if swapping the Intel (Centrino, I believe?) WLAN to the IBM a/b/g WLAN (I guess something must happen with displaying ”Pentium-Mobile” in stead of ”Centrino” at boot?). I wonder if I perhaps need to have a deeper look at e.g. How to change the BIOS bootsplash screen which points to this page: How to change the BIOS bootsplash screen (under Windows)...

f) Are there any obvious advantages or disadvantages if doing the above swap? (apart from now having two –Q1U’s?) I believe having read several places that the range and performance of the Atheros is better than the Intel?

PS: I already checked that the WLAN antenna in the –Q2U is the same as in the –Q1U, so the antenna in the –Q2U will also support 802.11a (around 5 GHz).

Thanks very much in advance to anybody who can shed light at the above!

Best regards,

Johan

[aaa]

a) Yes you can swap HDs without problems.

b) MAC address is part of the card, it will not match

c) I do not think so, I'm assuming the burner software will work with both.

d) I find it annoying because you have to remove both the palmrest and keyboard, with somewhere around 8 screws in all.

e) The bootsplash screen will no longer say Centrino when you remove the Intel card.

f) The Atheros use a tiny bit more battery power, that seems to be the only disadvantage.

[Johan]

a) Yes you can swap HDs without problems.

b) MAC address is part of the card, it will not match

c) I do not think so, I'm assuming the burner software will work with both.

d) I find it annoying because you have to remove both the palmrest and keyboard, with somewhere around 8 screws in all.

e) The bootsplash screen will no longer say Centrino when you remove the Intel card.

f) The Atheros use a tiny bit more battery power, that seems to be the only disadvantage.

WOW, truly amazing!! This is simply forum.thinkpads.com at its very best, here to my benefit: Only one (one!) hour after asking a bunch of quite advanced questions - a kind, obviously very knowledgeable and highly helpful forum fellow has answered everything!! This is far out!! (- speaking in the most positive way!).

I truly appreciate your help, aaa, and your answers are perfectly precise, sharp, simply superb – all very much appreciated!

Thank you, thank you, thank you; now I’m immediately off to get me an Atheros card. Wonderful!

Kind regards,

Johan

[ajkula66]

And the performance of Atheros is DEFINITELY better...

[ulrich.von.lich]

If you buy a new Atheros card it will come with a Mac Address sticker so you can replace the old one on the bottom. I installed the card for my T43 two weeks ago without any hassle. I find it's only one more step than the keyboard removal.

The palm rest is associated to the keyboard bezel in 15" models. Don't use too much force pulling it off. The details can be found in the HMM. You can also find some instruction clips on Lenovo's site.

Good luck

[rocky01]

Yeah, we'll keep aaa around. Although no doubt he's blushing at the moment

I love 802.11a and have been drooling over the pricey dual band a/g/n model routers. I wonder if Lenovo has a/g/n chip backwards compatible with our T4xx series?

[ricerocket]

You can clone MAC addresses in Windows, and well...probably every OS. I cloned my 2200BG MAC address onto my Atheros card after I made the "upgrade" just so I don't have to bother the network manager for access again.

[BeeJayEmm]

And the performance of Atheros is DEFINITELY better...

I don't have enough info to agree or disagree with this statement, but I'm almost sure I hear Mr. Bill Bolton coming.

[ajkula66]

BeeJayEmm wrote:

I don't have enough info to agree or disagree with this statement, but I'm almost sure I hear Mr. Bill Bolton coming.

I think that you're under some type of seriously wrong impression on Mr. Bolton and his MO...there is no doubt in my mind that he is a gentleman enough to PM me if he had issue with anything I've written...and I would take any statement deemed less than appropriate back with no qualms...but honestly, I don't see anything offensive in the sentence quoted above, and anyone who disagrees is most welcome to debate me on it...that's what this forum is about, amongst other things, at least in my opinion...

[Johan]

You can clone MAC addresses in Windows, and well...probably every OS. I cloned my 2200BG MAC address onto my Atheros card after I made the "upgrade" just so I don't have to bother the network manager for access again.

Thanks also for this information. I just Googled "clone MAC addresses" and a hefty number of hits come up (no hits comes up searching for these terms in this forum, apart from this thread).

Are you perhaps able to point to any particular "clone MAC addresses" site which is usable/appropriate for ThinkPad's? I would rather not rely on some unknown online tool (many such seems to exist) for doing this - in the case I ever need to change the MAC address back... I would by far prefer being able to do it "stand-alone"!

Thanks, everybody, for your help. I just purchased an Atheros miniPCI WLAN interface (P/N 73P4301 = equivalent to FRU 93P4262, according to ThinkWike info about IBM 11a/b/g Wireless LAN Mini PCI Adapter II), so now I'm all set!

Best regards,

Johan

[BeeJayEmm]

<snipped>
I think that you're under some type of seriously wrong impression on Mr. Bolton...

I don't feel that way, but I do feel you're unclear about the nature of my post. I haven't been a forum member long but I have read enough here to have learned that, among many other things, Mr. Bolton has a great deal of experience with wireless network cards. Through that experience, he prefers Intel cards to Atheros for reasons he has stated on many threads (search and ye shall find). I was trying, in a humorous way (hence the smiley), to anticipate that if he were to post on this thread, he would disagree with you. Notice that I said I don't have enough info to agree or disagree myself. I didn't mean to give the impression I thought he was going to "police" this thread if he disagreed with the opinions stated. I took no offense at your post. I was just trying to be funny. My apologies if you didn't find it humorous.

[ricerocket]

Are you perhaps able to point to any particular "clone MAC addresses" site which is usable/appropriate for ThinkPad's? I would rather not rely on some unknown online tool (many such seems to exist) for doing this - in the case I ever need to change the MAC address back... I would by far prefer being able to do it "stand-alone"!

Best regards,

Johan

Its not some tool. You go into your Windows drivers and type in a MAC address. It's been available since Windows 95 on every network driver I've ever seen. EVER!

[ajkula66]

And, in return, my apologies for misunderstanding what you've meant to say...

[ulrich.von.lich]

I'm very satisfied with the performance of the new Atheros card. I can't tell if it's faster than the Intel 2200 B/G but the wireless LED does seem to flash more frequently, if that means anything..

[gunston]

i am happy using my Atheros card.

[gunston]

I'm very satisfied with the performance of the new Atheros card. I can't tell if it's faster than the Intel 2200 B/G but the wireless LED does seem to flash more frequently, if that means anything..

Yup, Atheros card do have High Flashing Frequency.

[ricerocket]

Its a driver thing, really. The light is normally on in Windows, and it'll blink off with traffic.

If you run the Atheros witha hacked Mac OS X, it's normally off, and will blink on with traffic.

[bill bolton]

but the wireless LED does seem to flash more frequently, if that means anything..

It doesn't mean anything.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[Johan]

… I am afraid I have a (hopefully: Absolutely last!) question in relation to the above:

The WLAN miniPCI I bought on eBay after reading your above answers (and thanks again for them!) was this: IBM 802.11abg Wireless LAN II Mini PCI Card - 73P4301 where it very clearly says: 73P4301. Now, when opening the box, and looking at the actual card received (that is, looking at it through its anti-static bag), what I am surprised to see is that it on the card itself says: 39T0355. I am surprised!

As discussed above, I had expected to receive either P/N 93P4262 or P/N 73P4301 – so now what is this 39T0355-stuff?? An eBay seller --> IBM/Lenovo Atheros 802.11a/b/g Mini PCI Adapter for some reason equal 93P4262/39T0081/39T0355/27K9944 (??!!), but does not mention 73P4301 in this list, so what’s going on here, I wonder?

Then, if I search for ”39T0355” on IBM’s site, it is only found mentioned for the following ThinkPad’s: X40, X41/T, Z60m, T43/p – that’s all! No, zero, nada T42/p’s are found while searching for ”39T0355” at ibm.com!?! Next, if searching in the forum here after 39T0355, there are a few posts: Which Wireless card for T42? and Best wireless card for T43p? , 108 mbps with IBM/atheros 802.11a/b/g adapter II, X31 Problem with Fn+F5 to stop wireless card and in particular one where it says this:

Yep, that's one of the funky ones! I had a 39T0355 - it functioned great, in terms of connectivity, in my former T40 but Fn-F5 wouldn't work no matter what I did (and I tried everything)!

Your problem sounds a little different but, given the "funkies" with these later cards, who knows?

... which also seems to indicate that the 39T0355 may cause problems in certain ThinkPad's. Is this because this is perhaps not a genuine IBM/Lenovo part or what??

… so, please tell me: Is something spooky here, or should I just sit back and relax?? Should I simply be completely satisfied with my 39T0355 and forget all about 93P4262 and 73P4301??

Thanks in advance if anyone can help calm me down (- not the least as I have sufficient other concerns for the time being!).

Best regards,

Johan

[ulrich.von.lich]

Johan, the 39T0355 is a genuine IBM/Lenovo card. It's the US model officially listed on the HMM for T43. The European model FRU# is 39T0357.

Many ThinkPad parts have different FRU numbers but are actually the same. i.e. the 9 cell battery for the T43 has a different FRU number than the one used in the T42 but they are totally interchangeable.

According to ThinkWiki, both 73P4301 and 27K9948 are listed as part numbers and the latter is actually the Japanese version of 39T0355. So I would assume 73P4301 and 39T0355 are basically the same since they share the same chipset, Atheros AR5004X, and other stuff.

I've been using the 39T0355 card in my T43 for more than a week now and the performance is very good. (I've never been dropped from Battle.net since.) So should you just sit back and relax? I would say: YES!

I'll get back to work

[Hanson]

Yes, when I bought the 73P4301 for my T43 on the Lenovo Website back in March. The box itself was labeled 73P4301 and the card inside was 39T0355. I've had absolutely no problem with this card since and I experience less dropped connections compared to the 2915abg card.

[ulrich.von.lich]

PS: And I think the reason that guy couldn't get FN + F5 functioning is because the T40 wouldn't normally take the AR5004X (aka IBM 11a/b/g WLAN Mini PCI Adapter II). But T42 will take both AR5004X and AR5001X+ (Mini PCI Adapter I)

[Johan]

Thanks a lot, ulrich.von.lich and Hanson, for your replies to my yesterdays WLAN-worries. And I promise you that I am very, very calm now - thanks to you! And now being so calm that I'm actually almost sleeping... I have already begun looking forwards (= dreaming!) to start using this, my own Christmas-gift ("From Me to Me, with lots of love!") - wow, am I going wireless soon...

Thanks, fellows! Much appreciated!

Best regards,

Johan

[gunston]

Thanks a lot, ulrich.von.lich and Hanson, for your replies to my yesterdays WLAN-worries. And I promise you that I am very, very calm now - thanks to you! And now being so calm that I'm actually almost sleeping... I have already begun looking forwards (= dreaming!) to start using this, my own Christmas-gift ("From Me to Me, with lots of love!") - wow, am I going wireless soon...

Thanks, fellows! Much appreciated!

Best regards,

Johan

good to hear that