Fan kicks in even with little CPU usage...

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SimonCC · #1 Post by **SimonCC** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:49 pm

Is it normal for the fan to kick in, even with only 3-4% CPU usage??

Plinkerton · #2 Post by **Plinkerton** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:59 pm

If you're on AC I think it might be normal. If you're on batter, I would say it's definitely not, as mine doesn't kick in until a decent temp is reached.

On AC it's on pretty frequently, if not all the time when I am doing something.

SimonCC · #3 Post by **SimonCC** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:05 pm

Yeah this is only when on AC, when on battery its eerily silent!

Thanks.

shahinrawther · #4 Post by **shahinrawther** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:24 am

My fan is continuously running, irrespectve of whether i am on ac power or battery, i would say almost non stop.
The cpu activity is minumum. I checked the task manager, the system idle process seems to say cpu 93. Other than that at times iexpore ane explorer.exe, norton anti virus etec..
i tried disabling norton and few other programs jumped to the second terminated few programs that were saying cpu 1 or 2. I closed down all windows, disabled or forcefully terminated a program or two that seems to be a little active, still the fan wont stop.

I had this issue from the very first day i got the lap top, that is one week ago. System model is 2373-q1u, 2.1 ghz, 1g, 128mb ati fire gel. Any help or hints in the right direction is greatly appreciated.

Plinkerton · #5 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:12 am

There are definitely some threads about this. I'm not sure if anything ended up helping, but I think I remember someone trying a controller driver update thing, or a bios update. I don't remember if anything worked though.

On AC my fan is pretty much always on. On battery, it's definitely not though. I'm on my 3rd T42,

, and none of them had fan issues when on battery.

nikemen · #6 Post by **nikemen** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:35 am

I put in the new EC and BIOS, and the pulsing of my fan stopped, but it is ON most of the time which I don't likw

shahinrawther · #7 Post by **shahinrawther** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:48 am

ok, so the only known fixes are to update some control driver or bios. Where do i get these update ? what abt contacting thinkpad support ?

SimonCC · #8 Post by **SimonCC** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:09 pm

the bios updates and controller updates will not help this issue, i have them & my fan is still on all the time when on AC. I am begginning to think it is a design fault of the t42, but like Plinkerton said, when im on battery the fan is non existant. This is an annoying issue and like i have said b4, i did buy the t42 because i thought the dothan would mean a quieter laptop, my brother has a Sony with dothan 725 and it is silent at all times even when on AC! Recently ive been getting a little frustrated when its 2am and im finishing off some work and all i can hear is the furious fan, i often check task manager as i cant understand it, but when i see 1-2% CPU usage there is just no reasoning behind it. Isnt the purpose of the fan meant to be that it cools down the CPU when its under a harsh work load/getting hot, what the hell is the fan trying to cool down when there is hardly any CPU activity???????

Plinkerton · #9 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:01 pm

SimonCC, it is a little strange I think. I actually just plugged my T42 into the AC and the fan has not started yet. If you read the other threads, I think it kicks in when the computer reaches a certain temp, but then after that, it just doesn't shut off.

I never hear the fan anyway, unless I stick my head next to it, so it doesn't bother me. What bothers me more is the thought of premature wear on the fan, etc.

tranle · #10 Post by **tranle** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:49 pm

You could try to go into your "Battery Maximizer" and change the setting for "CPU speed" from maximum to adaptative on the "AC Power Settings".

beeblebrox · #11 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:18 pm

Guys, have you noticed that the fan is running all the time, while the CPU is most of the time in idle mode, or has just low usage on the mobilemeter?

(And now I am talking from my own experience:)
Remember, that there is another processor, way more powerful that the Pentium: it is that large GPU Radeon FireGL which is close to the touchpad.
IBM was so intelligent to leave that big processor without cooling!
Only after a lot of customer complaints (!!) they modified the heat pipe that extends now to the GPU. However, there is only a tiny hole on the bottom of the thinkpad (what a joke) for fresh air. Anyway, that Graphics Processor runs on full speed (e.g. T40p) all the time and then there is another internal thermal sensor checking that part. Default is 250-350Mhz.
NOW: there is only one heatpipe for both processors and one fan. Guess what: it runs all the time.
I checked that with an ice spray on the GPU, the fan stops immediately.

What you can do: reduce power consumption of that GPU (when you are busy with Office for instance and don't need 3D graphics performance).
2 ways:
a.) use powerplay -> reduce the core voltage reduces heat
b.) use radlinker -> reduce clock to reduce heat

You can use combinations as well.

There is a nice ATItool that does it or use the OMEGA drivers (Radlinker) and make some tests how deep your Radeon can clock without producing artefacts. The RAM should not be lower than 110 MHz.
On the Radeon 9000 I have powerplay with 130MHz for both.
The fan never runs, and if it runs, then only for maybe 1 minute.

NOW: start a 3D CAD/CAM computer simulation (far cry would do the job as well, for those who don't use CATIA or MathCad) with all features set to default and you will be shocked that after a few minutes your system heats up and then the dynamics simulation will change to a slide show.
The heatpipe for CPU and GPU is undersized and can't deal with the full performance heat. Taking out the DVD drive helps a bit sometimes.
And IBM is selling the T40p, T41p and T42p as mobile workstation!!!
What a crap! This is close to consumer fraud!

Ghostrider · #12 Post by **Ghostrider** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:26 pm

beeblebrox wrote: a.) use powerplay -> reduce the core voltage reduces heat
b.) use radlinker -> reduce clock to reduce heat

You can use combinations as well.

There is a nice ATItool that does it or use the OMEGA drivers (Radlinker) and make some tests how deep your Radeon can clock without producing artefacts. The RAM should not be lower than 110 MHz.
On the Radeon 9000 I have powerplay with 130MHz for both.
The fan never runs, and if it runs, then only for maybe 1 minute.

Good tips! Thanks! I'll get a T42p soon and will test it. This should also improve the time on batteries...

beeblebrox wrote: NOW: start a 3D CAD/CAM computer simulation (far cry would do the job as well, for those who don't use CATIA or MathCad) with all features set to default and you will be shocked that after a few minutes your system heats up and then the dynamics simulation will change to a slide show.
The heatpipe for CPU and GPU is undersized and can't deal with the full performance heat. Taking out the DVD drive helps a bit sometimes.
And IBM is selling the T40p, T41p and T42p as mobile workstation!!!
What a crap! This is close to consumer fraud!

Well, if this is "normal" for the T4xp why are there not more people complaining about it? I'll check it myself but right now I can't believe it.

SimonCC · #13 Post by **SimonCC** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:30 pm

quoting ghostrider - "Well, if this is "normal" for the T4xp why are there not more people complaining about it? I'll check it myself but right now I can't believe it".

are you kidding me!

Elhabash · #14 Post by **Elhabash** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:57 am

Cool workaround.

But to correct a few things: It has two heatpipes for the CPU plus one for the graphics card, in the T40p at least. And the air intake is located right over the microphone and headphone jacks. If the heatpipes have the correct dimensions (and they actually may), it doesn't matter where the air is sucked in. One thing indicating that the GPU does not require as much cooling as the processor is that the one heatpipe leading away from it is smaller in diameter than the two from the CPU, while there would have been no problem (space wise) installing a larger one.
The graphics chip is not really more powerful than the CPU, actually...

A heat pipe needs a temperature difference to work, and the higher this difference is, the better it works. If you put in two heatpipes to the Graphics chip, it will not be twice as effective. Maybe they have the optimum already, and it would only be possible to optimize the system by making it considerably larger...

But I am not a computer designer, those are just educated guesses.

One thing I feel I have noticed is that after a year the fan is running more. But this probably is just warped memory (not the electronic one).

Here's a few links for the interested:

an article about the T40 and T40p with lots of pictures from the internals:
http://www.anandtech.com/showimage.html ... op_big.jpg

A picture of the cooling system of the T40p:
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.html?i=1801

An article about heatpipes:
http://www.cheresources.com/htpipes.shtml

Plinkerton · #15 Post by **Plinkerton** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:16 am

There's another thread going on about battery options. All of us in the thread have decided to switch our processors to "adaptive" even when on AC, and the consensus seems to be that the fan runs less, as the computer runs cooler, even when on AC. On AC, my fan has started to not run all the time when it's doing simple tasks, as it's only running at 600mghz.

Ghostrider · #16 Post by **Ghostrider** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:27 pm

SimonCC wrote:quoting ghostrider - "Well, if this is "normal" for the T4xp why are there not more people complaining about it? I'll check it myself but right now I can't believe it".

are you kidding me!

Nope, I'm not! I have viewed some articles here but I am not reading anything about heat problems of T42p notebooks that even cause the graphics to stutter!

Edit:
Just an idea: You use your notebook always in a flat and hard surface (like a wooden table) but not on your knees, bed, sheets of paper etc?! ... We had a HP-Notebook series in our company that had dying harddrives if they were NOT used on hard surfaces. The reason: They calculated with the 2 or 3mm space under the notebook for cooling. There were no open areas or visible air intakes - it was just the air under the bottom side that prevented the harddrives from overheating. So the harddrives of the notebooks that people used in our company on their desks with these huge paper sheets (I am missing the right word for it) died one by one until we found out what the reason was.

So: Does the overheating you experience happen if you have the NB on a hard flat surface?

ttalumets · #17 Post by **ttalumets** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:50 pm

How do you lower GPU and memory frequency? When I downgrade these(with ATITool or Radlinker), my T41 crashes immediately after applying settings. I have tried many different frequencies.
Any ideas that might help?

Tom

#18 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:38 am

My fan runs constantly on AC, although it will slow down if the machine isn't running too hot.

On battery, the fan rarely runs. The only difference between my AC and Battery power schemes is the fact that PowerPlay is enabled when on battery power. I suspect that on AC the GPU is running at full speed and generating sufficient temperatures to trip a nearby thermal sensor, which is causing the fan to run even if the CPU is not hot.

IBM might be able to solve this problem if it could modify the Radeon drivers to allow users to run the GPU in powerplay mode under AC as well as well as battery.

beeblebrox · #19 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:54 pm

well, my original T40p did not have a heat pipe on the GPU, that was the so-called short fan.
IBM then changed it to Long-fan, which now covers the GPU.
The GPUs have a much higher performance than the Pentium M, ever wondered why in the desktops the largest massive fan is always the graphics card?
Well, Preshot is another chapter...

)
that is a big joke!

For down clocking:
check what Radeon you have, you have to find out your lowest stable clock. I turned on Powerplay (reduces core voltage -> less wattage) and found 110 to 150 Mhz stable. The Memory always needs higher frequency to refresh its cells. If that clock rate is too low, your screen will distored.
If the GPU is clocked too low, the system freezes. Thus enabl the GPU rest automatic on the Omega driver.
My fan NEVER runs on the T40p, when surfing or working on Office.

#20 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:32 pm

I'm running some more experiments here. I installed the Omega drivers and verified that the GPU is running at a meager 67 MHz Mem/Core, even on AC power. I've locked the CPU speed at 600 MHz and the wireless on highest power save.

Since my system was running warm from installing stuff and rebooting, I used a portable fan to chill it a bit

This caused the system fan to shut off.

Now I'm going to do some work on my machine for a few hours too see if the fan comes back on!

update - The fan came on about 8 mins after I started working and stayed on for more than half an hour. I used the portable fan on it to cool it down and the system fan turned off. Somewhere on the system board is a thermal sensor that's causing the excessive fan use, but I'm not sure where the sensor might be. Lowering the GPU speed didn't seem to help, so I am still puzzled as to why the fan runs a lot on AC but not battery.

#21 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:01 pm

ROFL - I unplugged the AC. The fan disengaged within five minutes, although an annoying buzzing sound emanated from the back of my machine (sound went away after battery had drained to about 93%). For 45 mins after that my machine was silent but for the whisper of the HDD spinning.

So I then plugged the machine back into AC and 15 seconds later the fan comes on!

Something is definitely wonky with the programming of the embedded controller or whatever device controls the fan operation. The fact that the machine appears to be able to opperate the fan sanely under battery mode suggests to me that it is a firmware problem.

Mike8 · #22 Post by **Mike8** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:14 am

I use an IBM T41 (2372-1FU) with Radeon 7500 and I'm also affected by the fan problem. But I made an interesting discovery. I always used the T41 with external USB mouse and keyboard with the conequence, that the fan was mostly running (on AC). Then I recognized, that the fan immediately stoped as I unpluged the USB devices. Without external USB devices my T41 runs 10h a day absolutely silently. Therefore I believe, that in my case the fan problem is not caused by the GPU.

Mike

beeblebrox · #23 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:59 pm

As far as I know, the T40 with the small Radeon 7500 don't have the heat pipe covering the GPU, because it does not generate much heat. That is the short fan system.

Then there is the new Long Fan M10 system, with a huge heat pipe covering the Radeon 9000/9600.

maybe that's the problem. However, have you checked that Powerplay is turned on?
Reducing the GPU core voltage is highly efficient. When you use battery only, then Powerplay usually turns down the core voltage.

Concerning the USB, that is software in BIOS, I guess, since the USB electronics has to provide the current for the external systems. I have exactly the same symptoms on a T20.

Mike8 · #24 Post by **Mike8** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:14 pm

@ beeblebrox:

Powerplay is turned on. But when I try to reduce the GPU core voltage the system freezed.

Do you think, that the fan problem caused by using external USB devices can be avoided by using a portreplicator?

beeblebrox · #25 Post by **beeblebrox** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:13 am

I don't knwo about the docking station.
I recommend to work systematically thru the problem. Disconnect everything, leave Powerplay on, install the newest Omega Driver and reduce the clock first.
Then you can try the memory.
Memory is critical, if the clock is too low, it looses its contents and you get noise on the screen.

set in Omega to option, enable GPU reset.

I don't see any reason why it should not work.
Hope that helps.

Fan kicks in even with little CPU usage...

Fan kicks in even with little CPU usage...

bios and EC works a bit

T41 Fan Problem / USB Ports

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