T41: Which HDD to buy? .. and Samsung HM160HC issues.

Message

marYn · #31 Post by **marYn** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:23 pm

Here's my report and the APM settings in Notebook Hardware Control.

I've set the APM to 254 in the morning and the "superclicks" are gone. I have this drive for five days, it has been used for approx. 66 hours now. I've also done a benchmark with HD Tune and the average transfer rate is around 51MB/s which is better than 100GB 7200rpm drive in my second NB (HP nc6000 - belongs to the company I work in).

Samsung drive's benchmark:

yak · #32 Post by **yak** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:49 pm

Here's how it looks for me.

The Power On Hours Count test shows that your has been working longer than mine yet I have twice as much head load/unload cycles. Hmm, I've spent only about 2 hours in Ubuntu, wonder if that's the cause.

An hour ago, I have installed NHC and set the HDD APM to 254 (and AAM to 254). No clicks since and the load/unload cycle count stopped increasing. I only wonder how this will impact battery time and the drive's temperature. I'll keep an eye on these.

Edit: Another interesting observation is that, as expected, the load/unload cycle increases by 1 with every parking caused by APS.

wpyh · #33 Post by **wpyh** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:08 pm

Hi, I have a Thinkpad X32, but as this thing concerns the harddisk more than the Thinkpad model itself, I'm posting it here.

I have the same harddisk (HM160HC) I bought in early January. One thing I noticed is that the Load_Cycle_Count value is _not_ related to the "superclicks". What I observed was: everytime a superclick happens, the Load_Retry_Count value increases by 1. Does anyone else notice the same thing?

Here's the output from smartctl -A /dev/sda:

smartctl version 5.37 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always - 3
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 252 252 025 Pre-fail Always - 2125
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 341
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 252 252 010 Pre-fail Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000e 252 252 051 Old_age Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0024 252 252 015 Old_age Offline - 0
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 919
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 252 252 051 Old_age Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 50
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always - 20425
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 7
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 121 100 000 Old_age Always - 39 (Lifetime Min/Max 16/46)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1933
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 252 252 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0036 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 1
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
223 Load_Retry_Count 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 1406
225 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 11161

My "Acoustic Management Value" is 254 and my "Advanced Power Management Level" is 254.

Please note that Load_Retry Count increments kill the hard drive faster than Load_Cycle_Count increments, as we can see from the data above, that Load_Retry_Count of over 1000 decreases the SMART attribute value by 1, while Load_Cycle_Count of over 10000 decreases the SMART attribute value by 1, which is a 10x difference.

FTC · #34 Post by **FTC** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:04 am

Hi

Yes, with the Samsung HM160HC it is a wise thing to set the advanced power management setting to 254. (max performance) using hdparam or NHC. The disk will stop doing 'too much' load/unload cycles, which could drive to premature aging of the disk mechanics. I saw a few weeks ago that my SMART start/stop indicator was decreasing too fast because of this. After the change, the load/unload counter stopped its fast increase, and the disk no longer does its 'clicking'.

yak · #35 Post by **yak** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:26 am

I'm using Windows most of the time. I've added

hdparm -B 254 hda

BAT file to the Autostart. The setting seems to survive both suspend and hibernation so there is no need to reissue it after those. It doesn't survive reboot so it has to be put into the Autostart.

I haven't heard any "superclicks" since. My Load Cycle Count increases very slowly now. Since my last post on 12.02 where I put the screenshot of HDTune with current values, my Load Cycle Count has increased from 2189 to 2407 and the Load Retry Count from 313 to 325.

I don't have NHC installed.

I've set the AAM to max performance too, I haven't noticed any difference in noise emission.

KuniD · #36 Post by **KuniD** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:50 am

I'm confused. I thought (after reading this thread) if you installed a non-standard hard drive into a T4x you'd encounter this whole 'Error 2010' code problem, where it would beep loudly at boot and when you come out of hibernation? Or are you all using the drives in your ultrabay's?

So you lot have upgraded to 160Gb Samsung's and 250Gb WD's in your T4x laptops without experiencing this?

I was initially going to go for the 160Gb Samsung but after hearing about this problem I was going to order one of the 'safer' (read: older) options from their list.

But I'd much rather go for the Samsung!

Can someone confirm you aren't receiving the 2010 error on your T4x laptop with one of these large drives?

My specs:

T43 - 1871-11J
BIOS - 1.24

Want to use the HM160HC

aaa · #37 Post by **aaa** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:48 am

Only the T43 has the 2010 error, the older T4x's don't.

KuniD · #38 Post by **KuniD** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:56 am

OK.

I'm begining to think I'll just live with the 2010 error, just as long as the drive still gets me into Windows.

Is anyone using the HM121HC/HM161HC with their T43 and the 2010 bug and still getting into Windows? I've read of some people who get the bug after which the drive doesn't boot Windows.

A 40Gb drive from IBM's list of supported drive is 25 pounds.... a 120Gb is 35 and the 160 45 pounds.

Just can't bring myself to shell out 25 pounds for a 40Gb when the others are so much cheaper GB for pound!

wpyh · #39 Post by **wpyh** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:58 am

yak: What's your AAM setting in hex? I've set AAM to 254 and APM to 254, and right now:
1. Load Cycle Count does not increase at all (I don't use APS).
2. Load Retry Count increases at about 2 / hour.

And I still get those superclicks.

Can you please post the output of "hdparm -I hda" (that's a capital i)?

Here's mine:

Code: Select all

/dev/sda:

ATA device, with non-removable media
	Model Number:       SAMSUNG HM160HC                         
	Serial Number:      XXXXXXXXXXXXXX      
	Firmware Revision:  LQ100-10
	Transport:          Parallel, ATA8-APT
Standards:
	Used: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0 
	Supported: 8 7 6 5 & some of 8
Configuration:
	Logical		max	current
	cylinders	16383	16383
	heads		16	16
	sectors/track	63	63
	--
	CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
	LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
	LBA48  user addressable sectors:  312581808
	device size with M = 1024*1024:      152627 MBytes
	device size with M = 1000*1000:      160041 MBytes (160 GB)
Capabilities:
	LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
	Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum
	R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16	Current = 16
	Advanced power management level: unknown setting (0x00fe)
	Recommended acoustic management value: 254, current value: 128
	DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 
	     Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
	PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
	     Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
	Enabled	Supported:
	   *	SMART feature set
	    	Security Mode feature set
	   *	Power Management feature set
	   *	Write cache
	   *	Look-ahead
	   *	Host Protected Area feature set
	   *	WRITE_BUFFER command
	   *	READ_BUFFER command
	   *	NOP cmd
	   *	DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
	   *	Advanced Power Management feature set
	    	SET_MAX security extension
	   *	Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
	   *	48-bit Address feature set
	   *	Device Configuration Overlay feature set
	   *	Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
	   *	FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
	   *	SMART error logging
	   *	SMART self-test
	   *	General Purpose Logging feature set
	   *	64-bit World wide name
	   *	IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD
	   *	Write-Read-Verify feature set
	   *	WRITE_UNCORRECTABLE command
	   *	{READ,WRITE}_DMA_EXT_GPL commands
	   *	Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
	   *	SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
	   *	SCT Long Sector Access (AC1)
	   *	SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
	   *	SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
	   *	SCT Features Control (AC4)
	   *	SCT Data Tables (AC5)
Security: 
	Master password revision code = 65534
		supported
	not	enabled
	not	locked
		frozen
	not	expired: security count
		supported: enhanced erase
	60min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 60min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
HW reset results:
	CBLID- above Vih
	Device num = 0 determined by the jumper
Checksum: correct

edit: Forgot to erase serial number. You should, too.

yak · #40 Post by **yak** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:35 am

AAM is set to 254. I'm using APS so my Load Cycle Count still increases but as I said, very slowly.

Here's mine hdparm (for win32) output:

Code: Select all

hda:

ATA device, with non-removable media
        Model Number:       SAMSUNG HM160HC
        Serial Number:      XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
        Firmware Revision:  LQ100-10
Transport: Parallel, ATA8-APT
Standards:
        Used: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
        Supported: 8 7 6 5 & some of 8
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       16383   16383
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
        LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
        LBA48  user addressable sectors:  312581808
        device size with M = 1024*1024:      152627 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:      160041 MBytes (160 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = 16
        Advanced power management level: unknown setting (0x00fe)
        Recommended acoustic management value: 254, current value: 254
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
             Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    SMART feature set
                Security Mode feature set
           *    Power Management feature set
           *    Write cache
           *    Look-ahead
           *    Host Protected Area feature set
           *    WRITE_BUFFER command
           *    READ_BUFFER command
           *    NOP cmd
           *    DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
           *    Advanced Power Management feature set
                SET_MAX security extension
           *    Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
           *    48-bit Address feature set
           *    Device Configuration Overlay feature set
           *    Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
           *    FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
           *    SMART error logging
           *    SMART self-test
           *    General Purpose Logging feature set
           *    64-bit World wide name
           *    IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD
           *    Write-Read-Verify feature set
           *    WRITE_UNCORRECTABLE command
           *    {READ,WRITE}_DMA_EXT_GPL commands
           *    Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
           *    SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
           *    SCT Long Sector Access (AC1)
           *    SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
           *    SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
           *    SCT Features Control (AC4)
           *    SCT Data Tables (AC5)
Security:
        Master password revision code = 65534
                supported
        not     enabled
        not     locked
                frozen
        not     expired: security count
                supported: enhanced erase
        60min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 60min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
HW reset results:
        CBLID- above Vih
        Device num = 0 determined by the jumper
Checksum: correct

wpyh · #41 Post by **wpyh** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:48 pm

That's weird -- our settings are exactly the same. Maybe Windows has a different strategy for power management. Or maybe there's a difference between T4x and X3x.

Are you using the laptop 24 hours a day? I do, and now my Power_On_Hours is 940.

wpyh · #42 Post by **wpyh** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:56 pm

Oops -- sorry. I've set AAM to 128.

If I recall correctly, even when I set AAM to 254, Load_Retry_Count still increases quite often. I will report back with more data.

yak · #43 Post by **yak** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:33 am

It's not powered on 24h/day but it's on most of the day and shut down in the night. My Power On Hours is 264 now.

It shouldn't make any difference but I've used Samsung's HUTIL to disable the AAM.

wpyh · #44 Post by **wpyh** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:39 am

Well, I'm back with some data:

1. Set AAM to 254 and APM to 254 -- around 4 or 5 Load_Retry_Count increases per hour.
2. Reboot the machine, let the machine idle at the boot prompt, Load_Retry_Count increased by 7 over 2 hours.

yak: If you disabled AAM with HUTIL, then it should get the value of 0. What difference do you notice with AAM disabled and AAM at 254? I used to disable AAM, but it didn't make much difference -- my Load_Retry_Count still increases by around 2 or 3 per hour.

yak · #45 Post by **yak** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:40 am

I have no idea what causes your Load Retry Count to increase. After my last report the Power On Hours increased by 5 and Load Retry Count did not change at all.

Here's my whole story. I started digging this subject after I noticed that my Load Cycle Count is increasing quite fast. I started looking for a tool to disable hard drive power management features permanently. Since HUTIL is a Samsung tool I was hoping there will be some option to do it. Unfortunately I've only found the AAM setting which I've set to FAST (originally it was MIDDLE, there is also a third option called QUIET). TBH, I haven't noticed any change (in either speed and noise) but if my drive was supposed to be faster, I left it at that setting. Then I've installed NHC, it gave me options to set both AAM and APM. Here I saw that AAM was at 254 so I suppose this is the 'off'-state. After some playing-around with different APM values, I stayed at 254. HNC could also do something else internally, I don't know, I think it's a closed source app. I somehow didn't like HNC and its UI so I started playing with hdparm and decided to stay with it (and uninstall HNC). No problems since.

wpyh · #46 Post by **wpyh** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:06 pm

Well, I tried turning on "SMART Offline Testing" and got my Load_Retry_Count increase by 50 over 8 hours.

OK, so maybe HNC did something internally, after all. Unfortunately, I don't use Windows so I can't test it right now.

Do you know of any other drive-parameter display tool other than hdparm? I see that our hdparm settings are the same, so there must be something different. Maybe we should compare our smartctl output.

smartctl -i /dev/sda:

Code: Select all

smartctl version 5.37 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model:     SAMSUNG HM160HC
Serial Number:    XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Firmware Version: LQ100-10
User Capacity:    160,041,885,696 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   7
ATA Standard is:  ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is:    Sat Mar  1 10:04:17 2008 CST

==> WARNING: May need -F samsung or -F samsung2 enabled; see manual for details.

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

smartctl -c /dev/sda:

Code: Select all

smartctl version 5.37 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00)	Offline data collection activity
					was never started.
					Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (  32)	The self-test routine was interrupted
					by the host with a hard or soft reset.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection: 		 (  61) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: 			 (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
					Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
					Suspend Offline collection upon new
					command.
					Offline surface scan supported.
					Self-test supported.
					No Conveyance Self-test supported.
					Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003)	Saves SMART data before entering
					power-saving mode.
					Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01)	Error logging supported.
					General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time: 	 (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: 	 (  61) minutes.

Additionally, here is hdparm -i /dev/sda output:

Code: Select all


/dev/sda:

 Model=SAMSUNG HM160HC                         , FwRev=LQ100-10, SerialNo=XXXXXXXXXXXXXX      
 Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=34902, SectSize=554, ECCbytes=4
 BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=?16?
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=268435455
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 
 AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0:  ATA/ATAPI-1,2,3,4,5,6,7

 * signifies the current active mode

yak · #47 Post by **yak** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:53 am

Here you go.

smartctl -i hda

Code: Select all

smartctl version 5.37 [i686-mingw32-xp-sp2] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model:     SAMSUNG HM160HC
Serial Number:    XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Firmware Version: LQ100-10
User Capacity:    160.041.885.696 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   7
ATA Standard is:  ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is:    Sat Mar 01 08:51:42 2008 WN

==> WARNING: May need -F samsung or -F samsung2 enabled; see manual for details.


SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
                  Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled

smartctl -c hda

Code: Select all

smartctl version 5.37 [i686-mingw32-xp-sp2] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (  32) The self-test routine was interrupted
                                        by the host with a hard or soft reset.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                 (  62) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        No Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (  62) minutes.

hdparm -i hda

Code: Select all

hda:

 Model=SAMSUNG HM160HC, FwRev=LQ100-10, SerialNo=XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=34902, SectSize=554, ECCbytes=4
 BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=268435455
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
 AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0:  ATA/ATAPI-1 ATA/ATAPI-2 ATA/ATAPI-3 ATA/ATAPI-4 ATA/ATAPI-5 ATA/ATAPI-6 ATA/ATAPI-7

 * signifies the current active mode

This all is again dumped using Windows versions of hdparm and smartctl.

dr. zoidberg · #48 Post by **dr. zoidberg** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:05 am

I bought the Samsung drive (120gb version), and sadly, I immediately started getting superclicks after I installed it. I tried changing every power management parameter I could find but nothing worked.

Finally, I came up with a solution that seems to greatly reduce (virtually eliminate) the superclick. I wrote a small script that creates disk activity by creating, writing and then deleting a temporary file every 15 sec. Yes this is a small performance hit but I think it's worth it.

here are some before and after images of the load/unload retry and load/unload cycle values from NHC. Note the power on hours count

Before:

After:

here is the script (save it as .vbs) . let me know if it works for anyone else!

Code: Select all

on error resume next
Const TemporaryFolder = 2
Dim fso, folder,fName,f
Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
Set folder = fso.GetSpecialFolder(TemporaryFolder)

do while true
	fName = fso.GetTempName    
	Set f = folder.CreateTextFile(fName)
	f.WriteLine "..."
	f.Close
	WScript.Sleep(15000)
	fso.DeleteFile fso.BuildPath(folder,fName)
loop

sktn77a · #49 Post by **sktn77a** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:52 am

Wow, this seems to be a major disadvantage to what would otherwise be an ideal drive for the T4x series. You'd think Samsung would come up with some firmwar fix for this (I wonder if they even know its an issue?)

I chickened out and got the Hitachi 5K160 drives last week for my upgrades.

dr. zoidberg · #50 Post by **dr. zoidberg** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:57 am

sktn77a wrote:Wow, this seems to be a major disadvantage to what would otherwise be an ideal drive for the T4x series. You'd think Samsung would come up with some firmwar fix for this (I wonder if they even know its an issue?)

I chickened out and got the Hitachi 5K160 drives last week for my upgrades.

It made this clicking noise with the original drive too, except it wasn't as loud. I'm inclined to think it's a thinkpad related issue

sktn77a · #51 Post by **sktn77a** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:18 pm

I was thinking that too but I basically hear nothing untoward (ie loud) with my any of my Hitachi drives. Maybe it is some signal that the Thinkpad is sending to the Samsung but it doesn't bode well for reliability. I haven't heard this issue (to the extent it affects this drive) with any other manufacturers drive or even the Samsung drives before this model (?)

TribesMan · #52 Post by **TribesMan** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:36 am

I bought Samsung HM160HC few weeks back, the speed difference was obvious compared to the old Hitachi 7k60, but yesterday the computer started to work slow. Hibernation takes 4 minutes to complete... same with start up... it takes ages.

So i did HD Tach test and I get around 3MB/s transfer rates?!? I have also checked Primary controlers options and it says it is in PIO mode, I have DMA if available selected.

What could be the problem here? Any ideas?

FTC · #53 Post by **FTC** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:28 pm

So i did HD Tach test and I get around 3MB/s transfer rates?!? I have also checked Primary controlers options and it says it is in PIO mode, I have DMA if available selected.

What could be the problem here? Any ideas?

Hi,

Your IDE channels have degraded to PIO mode, as you have seen. This is the only cause of your degraded performance and also a known *problem* with windows. If windows sees over a given threshold of errors (normally CRC errors in the communications channel) it degrades the comms speed with the drive. The problem is that this is cumulative and there is not an auto-recover or count-claeanup mechanism, so sooner or later all drives end up doing the same (although for many it is more later than sooner and the machine is in the trash can/refreshed before this happens)

Now, the only cure for this is to recreate the IDE channels, so that windows reinstalls new 'instances' of those, which will 'start counting errors' again. Basically, uninstall the affected IDE channel in device manager and shutdown. Windows will discover it and create a new channel instance during the following boot... running in UDMA5 mode.

TribesMan · #54 Post by **TribesMan** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:29 pm

So this is motherboard related or HDD related problem? Or maybe just random and will not happen again soon if I reinstall the drivers?

dr. zoidberg · #55 Post by **dr. zoidberg** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:13 pm

TribesMan wrote:I bought Samsung HM160HC few weeks back, the speed difference was obvious compared to the old Hitachi 7k60, but yesterday the computer started to work slow. Hibernation takes 4 minutes to complete... same with start up... it takes ages.

So i did HD Tach test and I get around 3MB/s transfer rates?!? I have also checked Primary controlers options and it says it is in PIO mode, I have DMA if available selected.

What could be the problem here? Any ideas?

Hmm... I'm starting to get worried about this drive. Mine did this a few days ago. Fixed it by removing the IDE channel in device manager. The troubling part is I've only had it for a few weeks

yak · #56 Post by **yak** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:27 am

dr. zoidberg wrote:Hmm... I'm starting to get worried about this drive. Mine did this a few days ago. Fixed it by removing the IDE channel in device manager. The troubling part is I've only had it for a few weeks

If the error-count is managed in the driver, not in the drive (and fix by reinstalling the drivers suggest this) then it is possible that in your case it was caused by summarized error-counts of your old and new drives.

dr. zoidberg · #57 Post by **dr. zoidberg** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:01 pm

yak wrote:
dr. zoidberg wrote:Hmm... I'm starting to get worried about this drive. Mine did this a few days ago. Fixed it by removing the IDE channel in device manager. The troubling part is I've only had it for a few weeks
If the error-count is managed in the driver, not in the drive (and fix by reinstalling the drivers suggest this) then it is possible that in your case it was caused by summarized error-counts of your old and new drives.

mmm... I don't think so. I formatted and did a clean re-install of windows after installing the new drive

dr. zoidberg · #58 Post by **dr. zoidberg** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:06 pm

My drive got reset to PIO mode again today

I think I found why it's getting reset. Apparently, if atapi.sys detects a certain number of cumulative timeout or CRC errors, it will reduce the drive speed. I checked event viewer and lo and behold, there were lots of timeout errors. Apparently timeout errors are more prone to happening when taking the computer out of standby (which I do a lot). There is a fix from microsoft here but it's been supposedly fixed in SP2 (which I already have)

....

Hopefully, the fix works, I don't want to keep uninstalling the drive from device manager. What's surprising is that the original 40 gig drive never gave me a single problem

Stan · #59 Post by **Stan** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:15 pm

I've been using a Western Digital WD1600BEVE in my T42 (specs in sig) and it hasn't given any cause for concern so far. No strange noises at all.

It's seems like a plausible upgrade for the original IBM 40Gb HDD.

TribesMan · #60 Post by **TribesMan** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:52 pm

My drive got thrown into PIO mode again today. :/ I'm really not impressed with this drive...

Are there any firmware updates for hm160hc?

T41: Which HDD to buy? .. and Samsung HM160HC issues.

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