T42p fan error issues (more)

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pearl0 · #1 Post by **pearl0** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:01 pm

Hi,

Firstly, I have searched the forums as much as possible about this issue before posting this.

I have received a fan error on my T42p on every boot attempt and without overriding it via "esc" the machine will not boot and turns off on its own.

Now I did purchase a new fan setup on Ebay but after installing it, the problem persists. When booting the fan never turns on during operation of the PC. I have verified this since the CPU core temperature goes up to above 80 C and then I frantically go about turning the PC off.

Anyways, I have considered that perhaps the fan that I got from Ebay may be DOA, so does anyone have a known working T42p fan, its the long version, that they would like to sell? Do you think that it is worth trying another fan or is my systemboard damaged?

I also considered that it could be the CMOS battery since some people mentioned that this could cause the fan error issue? Could this be true? I have not replaced the CMOS battery yet, but have removed it and resinstalled it and the last 2 times that I booted the machine I received a CMOS checksum failed and had to reset the date and time.

I would like to investigate every possibility outside of replacing the system board, since the machine is out of warranty and replacing the motherbiard is probably not an option at this point. I think they run at least $300.00 dollars and I was just able to buy a new Z61 for $600.00.

On a side note does the T42p have an automatic shutdown for high CPU temperature? What happens if the CPU temperature goes above, say 80 C, but does not actually fry? I ask because I have noticed when playing around with this issue that once or twice the CPU temperature must have gotten at least to that point, however I am still able to boot the machine and run without issue. I do not try this for more than a minute or two though.

Anyways, if anyone has any ideas/suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Paul

#2 Post by **richk** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:31 pm

The CMOS battery can cause the fan error and it is cheap. If you are getting the fan error at startup, you can hook any known-good T4x fan and start it up. You can just try to get into the BIOS and shut it off. You are not going to cook your graphics chip just starting the machine for 20 seconds, and yes, you can certainly buy bad fans off eBay. The CPU will shut off before any damage, but you never help anything by heating it up. I have one or 2 long fans around, but I think they are the "black pad" model. Really, the T42p models are supposed to have the ones with the pink pad. First, I would replace the CMOS battery. (I have those also if you need one.) If that doesn't help and you cannot find any T4x fan you can borrow, then try to replace the fan. You don't even need to pull the old fan off the board to test a new one. Just unplug the old one and plug in a different one to the connector. You don't need to put on the touchpad. Just plug in the keyboard and start it with the keyboard loose. Just make sure the new fan and the metal parts of the keyboard don't touch the motherboard.

pearl0 · #3 Post by **pearl0** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:41 pm

Thanks for the quick response. I love that about this community.

Unfortunately, I do not have an extra fan or CMOS battery so if you have either I it would be helpful.

How much for each? If not, I can always just go buy a new fan from an online dealer for the full price. I think that $67.00 was the cheapest that I have seen not from ebay.

TIA,
Paul

#4 Post by **richk** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:55 pm

Since I don't have the pink-pad fan you really need, you might be better off just trying the CMOS battery first. Usually, fans you buy are not dead as a stone. (they may be noisy) Send me a PM with your email address and a shipping address.

pearl0 · #5 Post by **pearl0** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:15 am

Well today I got my hands on a volt meter and found out some interesting things:

1. My CMOS battery was pretty much dead. 0.2 V, so I went to Radioshack and picked a temporary one hoping that that would fix my "fan error" problems. But unfortunately not. No more time/date issues on boot, but still has a fan error.

2. Not sure that I am doing this correctly, but with the running, windows booted up and CPU temperature at about 50 C (I would expect that this is above normal operating temperature and therefore a fan ON request should be present), disconnected the fan and place the voltmeter on the red (6V pin?) and the orange (ground?) pin but no voltage.

So for number 2, I think that a few things could be going on here:
a. Systemboard is dead (hoiping this isn't the case but definitely afraid that it may be the case)
b. Didn't connect the volt meter up correctly (plan to try to test the fan independently to verify this)
c. Lastly perhaps there actually was no active fan ON request at that time. Should try again once it cools off.

Is there any way to force a fan ON request so that I can test the systemboard when I know that a fan ON request should actually be active?

Also, I noticed something disturbing: The first time that I tried to boot windows with the volt meter connected to what I thought were the appropriate fan pins, the got a bunch of red lines on the screen and then staticy looking black and white lines and windows did not boot. However, I did not wait around long. Turned it off quickly thinking that the CPU may be overheating or something. Tried again about 1 hour later and windows booted fine, then I did the voltage test above without issue (though not exactly the results that I was looking for.

Anyways, if anyone has some other ideas that I should try out please let me know.

TIA,
Paul

Nick Y · #6 Post by **Nick Y** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:21 am

>>Is there any way to force a fan ON request so that I can test the systemboard when I know that a fan ON request should actually be active?

Yes. Try FanControl at http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~schmit ... 25beta.zip

Just set it to manual and highest fan speed.

(More about FanControl etc. at 'ThinkPad Utility Work Area' http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=27)

pearl0 · #7 Post by **pearl0** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:32 pm

Well I got all the things together and today I went about testing the fan that I bought off ebay.

I used a variable power supply (6V - 12V). Below are the steps that I followed:

1. Connect 6V power to the red wire pin on the fan and then the ground to the orange wire first, then when it still didn't work, I tried the blue wire for ground. In both cases the fan would not turn on.

2. Upped the voltage on the red power wire 7V then 9V and always the fan did not turn on.

Did I do the test correctly? Does anyone know what the third pin on the fan connector is for?

Assuming that I tested it properly, it appears that I received a dead fan from my ebay purchase. I hope that it is that simple and that all that I need to do is go ahead and order a new fan from a reputable dealer and voila.

As always any insight would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,
Paul

Nick Y · #8 Post by **Nick Y** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:30 am

>>Assuming that I tested it properly, it appears that I received a dead fan from my ebay purchase.

If you unplug the old fan from your T42p and plug the new one in, you can test the fan without removing the old fan from the motherboard. You may need to use FanControl (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=27) to ensure that the fan is being 'told' to operate.

pearl0 · #9 Post by **pearl0** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:10 am

Thank you for advice; however, the only issue with doing that is even if the fan does not turn on, I do not then know whether the fan module is dead or if there is an issue with the systemboard.

For the above reason is why I wanted to test the fan module independently.

jimmy274 · #10 Post by **jimmy274** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:01 am

You can put the laptop near the AC, boot to windows and use TPFanControl to manually set the fan on. Needless to say, the AC should be put in the cooling mode...
I would try this out with both fans...

Nick Y · #11 Post by **Nick Y** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:19 am

pearl0 wrote:Thank you for advice; however, the only issue with doing that is even if the fan does not turn on, I do not then know whether the fan module is dead or if there is an issue with the systemboard.

For the above reason is why I wanted to test the fan module independently.

I could be quite wrong, but I have a feeling that the fans work on 5v. I also wondered, sometime back, whether they use frequency rather than DC voltage to control the speed. A scope would answer this, but I have access to neither at present. (Thinks: scope probe coupled to mic input with some suitable display s/w should work and answer this....**)

Obvious question, but do you know anyone else with a similar thinkpad in which you could reasonably simply plug the fan in and test it?

EDIT ** www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/VA/ has a free scope called 'Visual Analyser 4.0', which may help if you want to try that route. S/w seems to run OK, just need to locate my probes, which are somewhere in the attic!

EDIT2: Newer version of Visual Analyser (still free) at developer's website: www.sillanumsoft.org/download.htm

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