T42 XGA SXGA+ upgrade display issue...

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pipco · #1 Post by **pipco** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:07 pm

My 14" XGA display recently cracked after a fight with a toddler and a lego tower. I purchased a new display assembly (hinges, bezel, etc.) on ebay but realized after I won that I had been bidding on a 14" SXGA+ display.

I was worried at first, but read on these forums (and others) that it is possible to swap out the displays, although driving with a Radeon 7500 (which I have) was hit or miss.

I think I might be having an incompatibility issue, but I want to make sure it wasn't just installation error.

On initial boot, everything seemed fine. I then noticed that during hibernation when it went to the MS Hibernation progress bar screen, the display would violently shake horizontally. Playing a DVD in windows caused the same issue. At that point, it started happening occasionally during regular windows operation. Here are some images:

http://www.rickdev.com/t42/

It seemed like when I was just trying to reproduce the issues to take these photos, it was happening during windows usage only with trackpad movement. Although after a while it does seem to be pretty persistent. Actually in the last 20 minutes or so, it's been fine!

My question is this: Is this the symptom of a Radeon 7500 trying to drive this SXGA+ display, or is this an installation problem (loose connection, etc.)? If the latter, I'll open her up and jiggle something. If the former, I'll wait until I get a proper display and swap them.

Thanks!

Rick
T42: 2374-Y1E

aaa · #2 Post by **aaa** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:40 pm

If you got a whole assembly (with the SXGA cable) then it is supposed to work, and the problem's somewhere else.

Thomcat · #3 Post by **Thomcat** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:16 pm

It looks like your graphics chip is overheating. I tried running my T41 with a Radeon 9000 gpu with a short cpu heatsink/fan and encontered the same problem.

Does it happen either under high cpu/gpu stress loads (playing a DVD would do it) or after you've used the laptop for a little time? If you turn it off and let it rest for 24 hours, does it work fine for awhile before exhibiting the issue?

If the majority of your answers are yes, I suggest you buy a long cpu heatsink fan and replace your existing one. I did that and the problem has not reappeared.

See my response to the gpu failure thread here:
"I'm thinking the long cpu heatsink and fan on models NOT having Radeon 7500s is the differentiator here. The extra cooling on the other GPUs due to them having a heatsink over the graphics chip means longer life. It's a $25 part from eBay. Those of you with healthy 7500s may want to upgrade their cpu fans for piece of mind."

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=56631

pipco · #4 Post by **pipco** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:50 pm

Thomcat wrote: Does it happen either under high cpu/gpu stress loads (playing a DVD would do it) or after you've used the laptop for a little time? If you turn it off and let it rest for 24 hours, does it work fine for awhile before exhibiting the issue?

Well, I'm not sure. Would an overheating graphics card manifest itself only after upgrading the display? With the old XGA display, I never saw this issue. It only started after the upgrade.

1. It ALWAYS happens with a DVD playing.
2. It ALWAYS happens during the hibernation countdown.
3. After using it most of the day today, it doesn't seem to be time related. After having it on for 4 hours, it can go for 30 minutes without an issue, then it will be bad for a few minutes. Usually shifting the display or moving the computer will fix it.
4. If I have it powered down for a couple hours, then power it up, it will be fine, but if I immediately hibernate it, it does exhibit the problem.

Does anyone have screen shots from a display with an overheating graphics chip? Do they look like my screen shots? A more important question, do screenshots exist for the "digital noise" as described in this thread.

I don't really want to even throw $25 at this if it's not going to fix it. I know I can get my money back by selling this screen on ebay and then buying a XGA display. I was hoping for some more evidence that this was the "digital noise" that can exist for this chip/display combo.

Also, it doesn't really seem like it would be possible to not seat the connector correctly. It's a pretty snug fit...

Thomcat · #5 Post by **Thomcat** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:42 pm

It could also be the internal vga connector cable from the lcd to the motherboard is defective leading to video noise.

jimmy274 · #6 Post by **jimmy274** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:37 pm

First of all, it could be overheating because it's not the same for Radeon 7500 to drive XGA or SXGA - it needs more horsepower for the SXGA.
Secondly, the flat cable might be bad, and they're fairly cheap...

aaa · #7 Post by **aaa** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:47 pm

I am using an SXGA with a 7500 right now.

pipco · #8 Post by **pipco** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:58 pm

Thanks for all the responses so far.

I knew that it was possible to drive a SXGA+ with a Radeon 7500, as there are people out there that have posted success (like aaa). I was hoping for confirmation from those that either didn't have success, or those that have seen an "incorrectly installed" display, or a display with a bad flat cable (like jimmy274 mentioned), overheating, or some other "broken" part of the display assembly. Just some way to confirm that the digital noise I'm seeing is related to one issue or another.

I'm leaning towards some physical problem with the install, as pressure on the palm rest or keyboard bezel seems to correct the issue temporarily. I guess I'll have to open her back up!

jimmy274 · #9 Post by **jimmy274** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:56 pm

I'm just hoping that you're not experiencing the notorious GPU problem... Does the situation dramatically changes when you apply pressure to the palmrest (ie. the noise disappears the second you press on the palmrest)?

pipco · #10 Post by **pipco** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:47 pm

It's possible that it is the GPU problem. When you press the palm rest firmly, it either makes the display noise start happening, or it makes it go away. I still have a few months on my warranty, so I guess I'll pick up an XGA display, sell my SXGA+ display and try to get it in for warranty work. T

hey shouldn't be able to tell that I have a new non-cracked display on it right? Like they don't have serial numbers of all the parts somewhere?

Maybe I'll post in the marketplace. Anyone want to swap displays?

sjthinkpader · #11 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:22 am

pipco wrote:It's possible that it is the GPU problem. When you press the palm rest firmly, it either makes the display noise start happening, or it makes it go away. I still have a few months on my warranty, so I guess I'll pick up an XGA display, sell my SXGA+ display and try to get it in for warranty work. T

...

Generally IBM doesn't quarry you on a mismatched display if it is not cause of your problem. They will charge you if the self installed display is the cause of your problem.

If your warranty is Onsite, the techs are usually very understanding.

Have you tried reseating the flex cable connector?

pipco · #12 Post by **pipco** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:11 am

sjthinkpader wrote: Generally IBM doesn't quarry you on a mismatched display if it is not cause of your problem. They will charge you if the self installed display is the cause of your problem.

If your warranty is Onsite, the techs are usually very understanding.

Have you tried reseating the flex cable connector?

That's good news. It is an Onsite warranty.

I haven't had a chance to open it back up. I will reseat the connector and maybe try running it open so I can press on the GPU directly.

sjthinkpader · #13 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:30 am

Just be aware that if they found that you have caused the problem, it will be expensive.

pipco · #14 Post by **pipco** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:53 am

sjthinkpader wrote:Just be aware that if they found that you have caused the problem, it will be expensive.

Well, that's not good. Man, I can't catch a break. So, in theory, if they come out and say that the new SXGA+ screen is the cause of the messed up display, they'll charge me for an onsite visit. That would be bad.

If I swap out my SXGA+ with an XGA from ebay, and it fixes the problem, I'm good. If it doesn't, then at that point they wouldn't be able to tell that I swapped the display right? Is there a registry of all the FPU serial numbers in the machine as originally configured?

I mean it doesn't violate my warranty to just open up my machine does it? As long as what I did didn't cause the problem I should be okay. It seems like it would be risky to call an onsite visit with a self-installed screen if the problem I'm seeking repairs on is a display issue.

#15 Post by **richk** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:23 pm

If you swap it back, they will not be able to tell. I doubt you caused the problem, but also, the SXGA+ panel you bought may be bad. One issue is that the GPU issue is caused by board flex. You should know that there is less support (and the board is more likely to flex) when the touchpad and keyboard are removed to work on the system. I have T4x XGA screns around. If you are interested, send me a PM.

aztektum · #16 Post by **aztektum** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:37 pm

I can almost guarantee it's a heat problem. 99.999% My t41 does the exact same thing, but if I down clock the video chip it clears up. If I use it for a while it pops up again, but not as bad running at the lower speed.

pipco · #17 Post by **pipco** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:15 pm

Thanks again for all the assistance. I'm going to swap back out to an XGA screen and if the problem still exists, I'll get the warranty process going. I don't want to risk getting dinged for a faulty screen if I have a tech come out to the house.

I'll update in a couple weeks when I've finished the swap.

sjthinkpader · #18 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:35 pm

If you call up your machine under the Warranty Lookup on www.lenovo.com, you can find the major subassembly list as shipped including the LCD FRU number.

Troels · #19 Post by **Troels** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:01 pm

Could also be that the LCD ribbon cable has come partly off the LCD panel. Vcc is only available at one side of the connector while the other end is used for data clocks and pixel stropes.

They used to secure the connector to the socket by a white strong piece of take, but maybe it has come off for some reason

SteveS · #20 Post by **SteveS** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:52 pm

The problem is not cables, incorrect installation, etc. If it were, you would have problems all the time, not just watching a DVD.

Running the SXGA+ on a Radeon 7500 is marginal. From what I can see, IBM/Lenovo never built a T40 series with this combination. Those with this combination have an upgraded laptop. While some members report success, others report problems with digital noise blurring the characters on the screen. That very well could be what you have here. In the mode used to drive the LCD display, 1400x1050 @60 Hz is not a specified operating mode for the chip. It is quite likely right on the edge of acceptable operation, so some chips work, while others don’t.

sjthinkpader · #21 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:43 pm

This message is typed on a A31 with a Radeon 7500 mated to a UXGA screen!!! I have another A31 with a SXGA+ screen as well.

What is the basis of your assertions?

#22 Post by **Johan** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:41 am

SteveS wrote:<snip> From what I can see, IBM/Lenovo never built a T40 series with this combination. Those with this combination have an upgraded laptop. <snip>

According to the thread T42 Upgrade Possibilities (see the post by whizkid of Fri Jul 20, 5:15 pm), at least three T42's were shipped from IBM with the 32 MB RADEON 7500 interface and an SXGA+ display. You may want to check this for yourself in the ltwbook (see T42's models 2373-KFU, 2378-R5U, 2379-R5U).

Best regards,

Johan

SteveS · #23 Post by **SteveS** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:10 am

Thanks Johan, I stand corrected. Entered a couple of those type numbers in the Lenovo support site and saw that they indeed do have SXGA+ and Radeon 7500.

pipco · #24 Post by **pipco** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:27 am

Thanks to some generous help from richk, I was able to get this resolved. I swapped out my SXGA screen for an XGA and everything is back to normal. It turns out I just wasn't able to drive the SXGA screen with my Radeon 7500 chip. It wasn't a GPU problem, it wasn't a problem with the SXGA screen... I was just one of the few with a 7500 that wasn't able to work with an SXGA screen. I know others have had success and Lenovo shipped some in this configuration, but I wasn't able to get it to work.

There is good that came out of this though... I am now a master at swapping screens after about 5 uninstalls and installs. Also, I was able to witness richk's generosity and excellent support. I think he went above and beyond to assist me, especially considering my call for help was my first post on this forum. Hats off to him.

Thanks to everyone else who posted with ideas!

lithium726 · #25 Post by **lithium726** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:33 pm

How are you sure it wasn't the screen/cable? I did the exact same swap in my old T40 and I never had an issue with it, now my sister is using the machine and we haven't had any issues, it's been like that for a good two years now

pipco · #26 Post by **pipco** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:56 pm

lithium726 wrote:How are you sure it wasn't the screen/cable?

I had richk test the SXGA screen on a known working laptop (not sure what model or which video chip). He gave it the thumbs up.

It's possible the problem was in my original installation of the SXGA, but I think that's unlikely. I don't doubt that some people have 7500's and SXGA's working in complete harmony. I wish I was one of them. Either way, now I'm happy.

Funny though, my wife was actually a little disappointed when I first installed the SXGA. "Every thing's so small"... I had to crank the resolution down for her. Actually, I think I ended up having her use the screen magnification option while she was browsing, and use the native resolution for editing photos... for the 5 days that we had the wonky SXGA in the laptop. Now she's blissfully working in 1024x768 again.

agarza · #27 Post by **agarza** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:50 am

I'm going to give this a go after I buy a need-to--reflow T40 with my T42p screen just to see what happens.

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