Do newer Thinkpads only work with Travelstar drives?

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Thinker · #1 Post by **Thinker** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:03 pm

Hi,

I posted a question a couple of hours ago about whether a T42 hard drive could be cloned (exact copy) using a utility such as Acronis TrueImage or Norton Ghost, due to the Protected Area in the HD of newer Thinkpads.

This is a related question. It seems that the Protected Area is implemented using the HD firmware of new Travelstar Drives. Does this mean I couldn't install any other drive in the laptop instead? Would this be a problem?

Ruben

stgreek · #2 Post by **stgreek** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:29 pm

Thinker wrote:Hi,

I posted a question a couple of hours ago about whether a T42 hard drive could be cloned (exact copy) using a utility such as Acronis TrueImage or Norton Ghost, due to the Protected Area in the HD of newer Thinkpads.

This is a related question. It seems that the Protected Area is implemented using the HD firmware of new Travelstar Drives. Does this mean I couldn't install any other drive in the laptop instead? Would this be a problem?

Ruben

You can clone the drive, but not exact copy (at least not with these programs, you can do it in Unix/Linux). You can install any 2.5" 9.5mm drive you want, but it will simply not come with the preinstalled hidden area.

Hope this helps

Stavros

aleung · #3 Post by **aleung** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:54 pm

i am getting T42p (waiting for it from IBM 2-4 weeks). I have those 2.5" to 3.5" adapter. I wonder if I can put the drive on my desktop and make image from the HD? since everyone mention about the hidden partition.

fbrdphreak · #4 Post by **fbrdphreak** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:10 pm

I'm very interested in this information also. I plan to upgrade my 40GB 5400RPM in the future and was simply thinking of "un-hiding" the partition in the BIOS and using some kind of drive imaging software to make an image on my desktop and copy that image to new HDD. Will this not work or what has to be done to ensure it will work? Thx

ian · #5 Post by **ian** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:23 pm

I can't see any reason why other drives cannot be used in a Thinkpad. I tend to rely on Travelstar as I consider IBM/Hitachi to be seriously good drives, but that's purely personal.

In terms of cloning, surely 'unhiding' the hidden partition in the BIOS should make this visible, and therefore potentially clonable - as to re-hiding it afterwards I simply cannot say...

beeblebrox · #6 Post by **beeblebrox** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:29 pm

you can use a brand you like, even IBM delivers the thinkpads with different drives, my came with a Fujitsu.

Btw. the Fujitsu drives are way better than the Travelstars, they are absolutely silent!! After that experience I sold all my Travelstars.

Acronis does make perfect clones of a drive and updates the geometrie data of the new clone drive, including the hidden partition, that was made visible in the BIOS before cloning.

Leon · #7 Post by **Leon** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:56 pm

so, are you saying that you can make the hidden partition visible, do a full image with Acronis, then restore it to a new drive, re-hide the partition, and everything will be as the original.... have you done/tested this process?

Thinker · #8 Post by **Thinker** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:31 am

beeblebrox wrote:you can use a brand you like, even IBM delivers the thinkpads with different drives, my came with a Fujitsu.

Btw. the Fujitsu drives are way better than the Travelstars, they are absolutely silent!! After that experience I sold all my Travelstars.

Acronis does make perfect clones of a drive and updates the geometrie data of the new clone drive, including the hidden partition, that was made visible in the BIOS before cloning.

Thanks for your help.

I actually don't understand well how that PreDesktop Area business works, and how it affects the replacement of a Travelstar drive by other kind. The fact that some Thinkpads come with Fujitsu drives begs the question: If these Fujitsu drives support the PDA scheme, their firmware must have that special set of commands that supports the PDA scheme, right? I heard that the PDA works with a combination of the BIOS and the drive firmware. If so, are there only certain drives that are compatible?
And, would any drive be compatible as long as the BIOS is set to not using (unhiding) the PDA?

Very confusing

JKGuru · #9 Post by **JKGuru** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:37 pm

As stated above IBM does use other suppliers for "their" drives, so others will work fine. When will we see the 120 GB 7200 RPM????

JHEM · #10 Post by **JHEM** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:43 pm

Leon wrote:so, are you saying that you can make the hidden partition visible, do a full image with Acronis, then restore it to a new drive, re-hide the partition, and everything will be as the original.... have you done/tested this process?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!

Haven't tried it with Ghost.

Regards,

James

Thinker · #11 Post by **Thinker** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:08 pm

JHEM wrote:
Leon wrote:so, are you saying that you can make the hidden partition visible, do a full image with Acronis, then restore it to a new drive, re-hide the partition, and everything will be as the original.... have you done/tested this process?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!

Haven't tried it with Ghost.

Regards,

James

Thanks! (6 times over).
I will be using TrueImage, but was inquiring about Ghost, since it seems to be in more common use. Now I will be buying my Thinkpad with a calm mind.

Regards,

Ruben

JHEM · #12 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:40 pm

JHEM wrote:
Leon wrote:so, are you saying that you can make the hidden partition visible, do a full image with Acronis, then restore it to a new drive, re-hide the partition, and everything will be as the original.... have you done/tested this process?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!

OK, change that to Yes, yes, yes, no and yes/no!

The recovery partition is there, but the machine won't/can't run the recovery program.

Shoot! Back to the drawing board.

Next up - DriveCopy.

Regards,

James

JHEM · #13 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:21 pm

JHEM wrote:Next up - DriveCopy.

I've just upgraded to TI8, so next up will be another try with the latest True Image.

Further reports as developments warrant!

Regards,

James

Thinker · #14 Post by **Thinker** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:50 am

JHEM wrote:
JHEM wrote:Next up - DriveCopy.
I've just upgraded to TI8, so next up will be another try with the latest True Image.

Further reports as developments warrant!

Regards,

James

James,

Please, keep us posted on your progress.
Good luck with it!

Regards,

Ruben

tselling · #15 Post by **tselling** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:25 am

You might try BootItNG. I believe it will do a sector by sector copy which might work. Its also free to try for 1st 30 days.

Peter_S · #16 Post by **Peter_S** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:06 pm

.....the only caveat is, BootIt NG is somewhat technical and has a "DOS-like" or "Windows 3.11" user interface. However, since BootIt NG works solely off the PC's BIOS, the hard drive can be imaged in its entirety.

p.s. In addition to imaging partitions/hard drives, BootIt NG is also a full-featured partition manager and boot manager. Being an IT consultant myself, I swear by the product! Very elegantly written and compact!

Leon · #17 Post by **Leon** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:28 pm

as I asked earlier in the thread for Acronis TrueImsge, with BootIt NG (funny name

), you can make the hidden partition visible, do a full image , then restore it to a new drive, re-hide the partition, and everything will be as the original?.... have you done/tested this process?

JHEM · #18 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:02 pm

I'll let you know Leon. Bill says he's done it with TI8, as I posted earlier it failed when I attempted it with TI7.

But, never discount the possibility that I simply screwed up!

Regards,

James

RoundSparrow · #19 Post by **RoundSparrow** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:16 am

I have a brand new T42 that I'm trying to clone the drive on with Ghost.

I already learned you need the -IB switch to get the boot sector.

My Thinkpad came with a Fujitsu 40GB drive and I'm trying to replace it with a Toshiba 80GB 5400RPM drive.

I have the removable tray that goes where the DVD drive...

Whenever I put the 80GB toshiba in the boot position the drive light stays on and the system won't boot from it. The drive light staying on seems to be a more serious issue like controller compatibility or something... ias it comes on and stays on the instant you turn power on the T42.

Drive works fine in the 2nd bay.

Ghost kept the IBM recovery partition at the end of the 80GB drive and it is the same size... so it looks like it did what it should have...

Any ideas? Anyone else had problems with Toshiba hard drives and the light staying on when in the primary drive bay?

mouse@cheese.storage · #20 Post by **mouse@cheese.storage** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:23 pm

Hi,

On this subject, it seems like people are looking for "free" alternatives, I have been using dd frequently the last weeks it works like a charm. And you don't need linux installed, just download knoppix burn it on a CD and boot from it (it can even help you in many other nasty situations) and get both harddrives connected and dd them, that's it.
The hidden parition is only a flag in the partition table that says it is hidden (correct me if wrong on this), but dd does a full duplication of each sector, including boot sector everything.
You can easily use it between same size disks and with a target tha tis larger, not sure if you can make use if it if the target is smaller than the original, but who needs that, right

Hope this converts some of you "ghost" people (I have had bad experience with it, I relied on it and all the effort seemed to be in vain, since it did not work in the end )

)

Do newer Thinkpads only work with Travelstar drives?

Do newer Thinkpads only work with Travelstar drives?

Re: Do newer Thinkpads only work with Travelstar drives?

Agree with tselling regarding BootIt NG.....

why pay and struggle if there is a simple free option

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