GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

T4x series specific matters only
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ajkula66
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#241 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:23 pm

Medessec wrote:Oh wow... heh, I may have some experience in reflowing, but reballing... :eek:

It is something I could try though... I may have to consider it. Making it a thing though-where I could help out with reballs, would be dependent on my situation with college (oh joy... :) )
Drop the college which only costs you money, and go into reballing to make money instead... :twisted:
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#242 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:10 am

If I were any younger I would have seriously considered it.
According to Nick it's fairly easy to learn if you have the proper equipment.
Look at some of the options:
- reflow motherboards (GPU and Southbridge on T4x/R5x)
- reball motherboards (GPU and Southbridge on T4x/R5x)
- remove/reball soldered CPUs (X3x, X4x, X6x and possibly newer
- remove/replace T61 nVidia GPUs (if you can get them)
- remove SATA chips on T43/R52 boards
- etc.
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#243 Post by Medessec » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:27 am

I'll have to get in touch and ask... I do agree the best way, and only way i'd like to learn how to do that is to have the right sort of equipment.

I don't think reballing works when the best tools on hand is an old heat gun, a solder stick, and a flathead screw driver.
Drop the college which only costs you money, and go into reballing to make money instead...
Best advice ever. :lol:
Trying my hardest to collect Thinkpads, but college and being broke kinda gets in the way. However...
701C, 760, 770, X24, T30, G41, A31p, T43p, T60/61 Frankie, Z61p, X60 SXGA+, W700ds
MEDESSEC

and yes. I am a bit of a lunatic.

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#244 Post by thinktwice » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:46 am

How do you know the right melting point and temperature profile ?
I cannot see it in the Hardware Maintenance manual.

Temperatures for several tin/lead and lead-free solders are given here:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/293 ... -card-oven

But which one is right ?

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#245 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:32 am

The proposed machinery that may be bought, comes most likely with manuals.
And if he gets it from Nick, then Nick will no doubt tell him.
The melting point for the T43 GPU solder balls is around 250o C.
But it is different for leaded and unleaded solder.
Why don't you have a look at some of the reflow/reball videos on Nick's old website?
http://reflowrepairs.co.uk/videos/index.php
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#246 Post by Ken Edmonds » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:42 am

I've just noticed that one of my multi-meters came with a temperature probe that reads up 1000°C. Assuming I can find it, as I've never used it in the 10 years or so I've had the meter, would that be usable for reflowing?
Having rebuilt one T42 with an R52 motherboard, I've still got most of another one and two failed motherboards.
T60, T43, T42/T43, R51e, 600X, 570E x 2, 560X, 760C, 720C

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#247 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:17 pm

No, the reflowing (or rather the reballing) is something that needs to be done by a professional with professional equipment.
Maybe 1 out of 100 amateur attempts might have been successful.
We have often enough warned against this!
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#248 Post by Ken Edmonds » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:32 pm

I've no intention of attempting reballing but this thread is about reflowing. As I've got a working T42/R52 and two scrap motherboards and a pile of bits left over it's not that important if it doesn't work although I'd rather it did.

It was just a question about whether a temperature probe could be used, as I've already got one, rather than an infra-red thermometer which I haven't got and am unlikely to find a use for in the future.
T60, T43, T42/T43, R51e, 600X, 570E x 2, 560X, 760C, 720C

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#249 Post by wisdomkeeper » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:05 pm

Is it normal for defective Intel 828010DBM/FBM to suddenly die and the only sign to be problem with booting from disk drives(disc controller related problems)? My friend brought to me one HP Nc 6220. Every time he powered up the laptop, he usually bend the case, and with it the motherboard, because if not - the laptop stops on the POST screen with HDD LED constantly lighting. I think it was chipset related problem and as I read in the posts before mine - reflow is not an option in this case. So he brought the laptop to me, the laptop powered up normally this time, so I thought first that it's HDD related problem. MHDD was OK, I turned it off, and it just died - I can't power it up anymore.

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#250 Post by lophiomys » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:57 am

From my experience with separating processors in T4x models:
It is a loose contact and can play all kind of tricks on you.

To find out what the cause really is, it would cost you a lot of time and money.
And additionally from the distance it is impossible to diagnose.
Lophiomys
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#251 Post by wisdomkeeper » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:21 am

lophiomys wrote:It is a loose contact and can play all kind of tricks on you. To find out what the cause really is, it would cost you a lot of time and money.And additionally from the distance it is impossible to diagnose.
I think that I have no wish to diagnose further. I think that it's the Intel chipset. I've opened it and when press slightly one corner of the chip, it works almost normal. If DIY reflow is not an option, then sooner or later it would eventually be dead and there is nothing to do about this.. Thank you. I really hope, that this would not be the future fate of my IBM T41 too.

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#252 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:24 am

The Intel chip under the wifi card has been the source of numerous problems in T40/T41 and T42.
Flexing of the motherboard causes that chip to loose contact with the mobo.
It is attached to it via BGA, i.e. ca. 650 tiny solder balls.
One or two loose balls is enough to horribly upset the laptop.
The same problem happened with the ATI GPU chip in those T4x machines.
Reballing is the only option. Playing with a heatgun is not an option.
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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#253 Post by vtcop » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:15 am

Thanks for your post friend. I´ve just tried, but it wasn´t worked for me.

I follow all the steps carefully, but now my T61 doesn`t power on.

When I connect the AC, Battery Status and AC Power Status lights blink at the same time, once. Nothing more happens. I've tried to disconnect almost every thing. Same behaviour. I`ve tried to disconnect the LCD too, but then any light comes on. I`ve checked same fuses on the motherboard, but all are ok.

Shall I put my Thinkpad in the trash??

I`ve also checked the charger (with my other thinkpad) and it works perfectly. Same behaviour with only battery. When I connect the battery, AC Power Status and Battery status blink once, nothing more happens when I push the power button.

Image Battery Status Led
Image AC Power Status Led

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#254 Post by oeliks » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:12 am

Works like a charm !
Image Image

Instead of a IR thermometer I used a PT500 sensor and a regular multimeter.

Thanks!

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#255 Post by KodiThinkPad » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:39 am

I've used T41P, Radeon 9600 T42, T42P, ATI T43, & T43P for my streamer laptops - have done 500+. Lots of parts and mobos so I have experimented.

I started with the "Kind of a guide - Baking your GPU for fun and profit" web page years ago. Never used a heat gun technique. This forum has some great info - Thanks George, RBS, xenomorph. These guys are to ThinkPads like the Black Viper is to Windows.

HERE'S WHAT I KNOW. I HAVE DONE 5 OUT OF 7 T43 AND T43P MODELS - Preheat. 390 degrees F for 5.5 minutes. Turn off. Open door. Let cool in oven. I use the OP's tinfoil balls but use 6 or 7 and flatten the bottom so they don't roll around. Want to support the mobo or it'll warp. Balls to get airflow I presume. DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT CRYBABIES SAY. They last. All are still in service pumping Kodi to a TV - used heavily for years - by some of my friends who don't have cable or Netflix. As a recycler, I'm proud of these (and the ones that had a broken screen - now no screen - pumping a TV or used as a desktop.)

Here's what I don't know. Failed on 5 other ones, too. Never been able to get a T41P, T42, or fix a sound clipping issue or one that didn't power on. Was looking for the right recipe for a T42 9600. IF YOU NEED A GPU REFLOW ON A T43 OR T43P TRY MY RECIPE. IT'S PROVEN. The 1st one I did was 5.25 minutes at 385 and it worked. Baking for longer a 2nd time got one close to working but did not work so I upped it to 5.5 390 and cook them once.

It's worth doing for me. I buy 15" IPS FlexView's with bad GPU's often. Mobo's are in supply compared to good screens.

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Re: GUIDE: Reflow GPU fix - 56K WARNING!!!

#256 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:55 am

Welcome to the forum.
IMHO your T40/1/2 problem is (and remains) the Southbridge (big Intel chip under the wifi-card).
The more central location of the ATI GPU might work for your "cookout", but does not work for the closer-to-the-side Southbridge.
As mentioned before, you'll need a reball here, not a reflow.
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