Returned my last Thinkpad...well maybe not !

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#1 Post by **aamsel** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:50 pm

edit: Final decision on X31 not made on the X31 yet, although the T42 XGA has already gone back.
================================================

Well, unfortunately, it just didn't work out.
I just returned the LAST Thinkpad that I will EVER return.
No more.
The bottom line is:
They are wonderfully built, very solid, great keyboards, good company.
But...
the screens are just not acceptable to me.
Perhaps this is because I insist on a standard XGA display (although I did see a poor SXGA+ display on a 14.1" Thinkpad as well.)
I love the fact that they will keep their value well, but...
I would rather have a notebook that I really enjoyed than have one that will keep its value.
A display is too important a factor on a notebook to settle for one as bad as the ones I have seen on Thinkpads in the past couple months.
Unfortunately, it has cost me a good bit of shipping dollars, since IBM would not refund the 2 DAY AIR shipping charge and I had to pay return shipping on each unit, and there have been several (or more).
I have really tried, I want a really well-built unit like the Thinkpads are, but I need a good XGA display as well.
Preferably 14.1" or smaller with a great XGA display, preferably not glossy.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Highline · #2 Post by **Highline** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:13 pm

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. I can only speak from my two days of Thinkpad ownership... and my experience has been 100% positive!

Andrew has to do whats best for Andrew though! You ever look at the Alienware laptops?

namezero · #3 Post by **namezero** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:15 pm

I thought T42 has something called Flexview, and people on this forum say Flexview display produces good readability on both XGA and SXGA.

I've a XGA T23 14.1" (of course not Flexview), and the readability isn't really good.

Some tried T23 with SXGA (1400x1050) on 14.1", but found that fonts are kind of small, and the scaling (forcing lower resolution while maintaining full screen) isn't good as well.

So maybe you should look into Flexview display.

#4 Post by **aamsel** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:29 pm

Not yet, they seemed way overpriced when I did look at them.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Highline wrote:... You ever look at the Alienware laptops?

#5 Post by **aamsel** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:31 pm

I did see a Flexview, but it was 15" SXGA+ (or higher UXGA resolution ) only, and I don't want anything higher than XGA or anything bigger than 14.1".

Andrew
Austin, TX

namezero wrote:I thought T42 has something called Flexview, and people on this forum say Flexview display produces good readability on both XGA and SXGA.

I've a XGA T23 14.1" (of course not Flexview), and the readability isn't really good.

Some tried T23 with SXGA (1400x1050) on 14.1", but found that fonts are kind of small, and the scaling (forcing lower resolution while maintaining full screen) isn't good as well.

So maybe you should look into Flexview display.

brewt · #6 Post by **brewt** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:44 pm

How is the LCD "not acceptable" and what do you consider a "great XGA display"? Viewing angle? Color reproduction? Speed? Brightness? I don't think you'll find a notebook with an LCD that excels in all of those (or a desktop LCD for that matter), since the technology just doesn't exist yet.

lfeagan · #7 Post by **lfeagan** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:54 pm

If you are looking for a portable that is pretty great imho check out the ones from Fujitsu. I am a pretty big fan of the Fujitsu P7010D. Its a killer notebook and the battery life on it is just flat out amazing. Optical digital audio in and out on it really rocks imho

It has a great screen by all accounts. Good place to buy one is here:
PortableOne P7010D

Fujitsu makes some pretty nice notebooks.

You have to check out this badboy I setup on a S7010.
http://www.vectorcomputing.net/Upload/I ... uS7010.PNG

BTW, the CrystalView display is very nice to look at. There are some very helpful forums for Fujitsu people over here

#8 Post by **aamsel** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:12 pm

I wanted a 14.1" XGA Thinkpad with a screen that would be as good as the standard matte LCDs I have seen on 15.4" widescreen notebooks (not glossy screens).
The 15.4's have good viewing angles, color, etc.
Unfortunately, they do not exist as 14.1" Thinkpads.

Andrew
Austin, TX

brewt wrote:How is the LCD "not acceptable" and what do you consider a "great XGA display"? Viewing angle? Color reproduction? Speed? Brightness? I don't think you'll find a notebook with an LCD that excels in all of those (or a desktop LCD for that matter), since the technology just doesn't exist yet.

#9 Post by **aamsel** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:31 pm

I am aware of Portable One and leog.net.
I considered several Fujitsu's including yours and the S6231, but am concerned about:
1.) How solid they are (they seem flimsy)
2.) The screen (it is reflective). Not sure that the viewing angles are any better. It is a very vivid screen, however.

Andrew
Austin, TX

lfeagan wrote:If you are looking for a portable that is pretty great imho check out the ones from Fujitsu. I am a pretty big fan of the Fujitsu P7010D. Its a killer notebook and the battery life on it is just flat out amazing. Optical digital audio in and out on it really rocks imho It has a great screen by all accounts. Good place to buy one is here:
PortableOne P7010D

Fujitsu makes some pretty nice notebooks.

You have to check out this badboy I setup on a S7010.
http://www.vectorcomputing.net/Upload/I ... uS7010.PNG

BTW, the CrystalView display is very nice to look at. There are some very helpful forums for Fujitsu people over here

CChoi83 · #10 Post by **CChoi83** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:48 am

Panasonic Y2... IMPORT/Grey-Market version. Check it out at Dynamism.com or the other grey-market importers. That would be my choice for an ultraportable/ultra-light. Next the Y2 is the W2, then the X40 with X4 base.

Y2: 14.1" SXGA screen, all magnesium case, built-in DVD multiburner, all in a 3.3 lb package with approx battery life of 5 hours. How's that for a fully loaded ultraportable??? Has Wi-Fi and USB but no 1394 unfortunately. A small price to pay (at least for me it is) for such an awesome machine.

#11 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:53 am

It sounds great, except...
I don't want an SXGA screen.
I want XGA ONLY.

And I am not going to pay $3,300+ for a W2 from Dynamism.
$2,500 is my top dollar, plus or minus a hundred or two.

Andrew
Austin, TX

CChoi83 wrote:Panasonic Y2... IMPORT/Grey-Market version. Check it out at Dynamism.com or the other grey-market importers. That would be my choice for an ultraportable/ultra-light. Next the Y2 is the W2, then the X40 with X4 base.

Y2: 14.1" SXGA screen, all magnesium case, built-in DVD multiburner, all in a 3.3 lb package with approx battery life of 5 hours. How's that for a fully loaded ultraportable??? Has Wi-Fi and USB but no 1394 unfortunately. A small price to pay (at least for me it is) for such an awesome machine.

Plinkerton · #12 Post by **Plinkerton** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:37 am

That's too bad. I have a 14 inch SXGA+ and the display is awesome. Though, I have never seen the XGA, so I can't comment...

ssdaytona · #13 Post by **ssdaytona** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:08 am

I really don't understand getting an XGA screen on anything bigger than 12".

SXGA is excellent on the 14"

lfeagan · #14 Post by **lfeagan** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:40 am

ssdaytona wrote:I really don't understand getting an XGA screen on anything bigger than 12".

I don't think that understanding has anything to do with the desire he has for an XGA display, and as such, I think we should just try to find a way to help him. That being said, for a lot of people they really want the larger pixels/lower res of XGA. All it means that is for them the desire for a larger desktop is outweight by the desire (and perhaps need) to have the things on the display be larger and thus more easily readable for them.

As for the CV display, I do believe it is more like Xbrite than a normal display might be, but it isn't as reflective as Xbrite is either. Ironically, if you want a laptop that has what most would consider a crappy display, then you likely need to look at cheaper laptops than IBMs to get what you want. It sounds like you are saying the desire for a 14" XGA display outweighs all other factors. As such, just go get an old notebook from some other brand that isn't so high-end oriented and you should be able to get something more like what you want. Then perhaps you can upgrade the CPU or whatever to suit your needs for speed.

lfeagan · #15 Post by **lfeagan** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:46 am

Ooh, I might have found a winner. How about an even bigger display? A 15" XGA on a Toshiba Tecra A2.
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmo ... id=1291041

The Toshiba Tecra M2V is even better yet in terms of battery life and other features. It has a 14" XGA display.
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmo ... id=1291041

The Toshiba M2 is the top of the Tecra line and also has a 14" XGA display.
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmo ... id=1291041

I am sure there are other good ones out there, but this one just happened to come to mind as I had looked a lot at it when I was starting shopping a few months ago. Its a pretty nice setup, esp on the M2.

aleung · #16 Post by **aleung** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:11 am

I don't understand why everyone complain about 14.1" SXGA screen. I was using T30 with 14.1" 1400x1050. I have no problem with it. I am getting T42p 15" 1600x1200 now. How old are you ? did you wear glasses ?

lfeagan · #17 Post by **lfeagan** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:38 am

Gawd, I feel like I am talking to engineers who are clueless. Some people's eyesight isn't as good as others. Why is this so hard to understand. I have 20/10 vision so my eyesight is likely better than just about everyone's on the forum and I don't find this concept so unfathomable.

My mom says that my 15" 1400x1050 (a diff notebook than my Thinkpad) display is just so small that somehow it is hard for her to read, even with larger fonts on it. I suspect it has to do with the aspect ratio on the fonts or perhaps something about serif vs sans serif. (Serifs give clues to the eye which makes them easier to read for many people.) We should just accept the fact that some people have difficultly and try to help them deal with it instead of questioning them as though they somehow must be wrong. Truly only they can know what works for them. I can't pop their eyes into mine and see how it feels.

And not everyone is complaining about a 14.1" SXGA+ screen. Lots of people love it if you read around the forums. And, as you can tell by my posts of those Toshiba Tecras that there clearly are a lot of people who like 14" 1024x768 displays. Toshiba is clearly catering to a market that IBM is overlooking in not having a better graphics solutions available for 14" XGA users. If there wasn't a demand for XGA I don't think the entire Tecra line would come standard with XGA. That would be pretty foolish on their part...

jschunkew · #18 Post by **jschunkew** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:56 am

Some folks don't get it. My head and eyes ache
instantly after looking at a high-res screen. An issue,
for me at least, with XGA is that it doesn't support
DirectX 9. Who wants to buy a laptop that's already
outdated?

#19 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:29 am

Thanks.
I will check those out.
However, from what I have seen, only the business model HP's list their LCD contrast ratios, viewing angles, etc.
I have seen the consumer Toshiba's, but not the business line, and I have no way to know that they would be an improvement without ordering one.

I still have to say, I am far more than tremendously disappointed that I have not found an acceptable XGA display in a Thinkpad.

For those wondering why I want an XGA that is approximately 14.1"...I also checked out a couple X series Thinkpads, and didn't care for the displays either, as well as a 14.1" SXGA+ Thinkpad. I couldn't use the SXGA+ 14.1" model with my eyes, but the viewing angles were no better.

Apparently IBM only has decent viewing angles and contrast in the Flexview's, and, again, that rules me out, since they are all high resolution panels.

Andrew
Austin, TX

#20 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:31 am

To get DirectX 9 support in a laptop that is not high resolution, your only real option is a 15.4" widescreen that has an ATI 9600 or ATI 9700 in it.

Andrew
Austin, TX

jschunkew wrote:Some folks don't get it. My head and eyes ache
instantly after looking at a high-res screen. An issue,
for me at least, with XGA is that it doesn't support
DirectX 9. Who wants to buy a laptop that's already
outdated?

#21 Post by **jdhurst** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:56 am

I have a T41 with a 14 inch screen and maximum resolution of 1024x768. I know it is not Flexview; otherwise I do not know what it is.

It is bright and clear. It has good contrast. There is no fuzziness. Some red bleed in Black and White text was much diminished by the new monitor upgrade file IBM made available for this model. I use Clear Type (which caused red bleed initially), but having curtailed this effect to insignificant, I would not be without Clear Type. I need reading glasses in every day use and use them.

Viewing angle is decent. I use it on a desk, and on my lap. On my lap, I occasionally have to tilt the screen a bit to accomodate a varying angle on my lap.

I won't say anyone should be happy with what I have, but I will say that what I have is smashingly excellent. Clear, bright, easy to read, and zero eye-strain. YMMV .... JDHurst

whizkid · #22 Post by **whizkid** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:38 am

I know some A models have FlexView. I don't know what size or resolution they are though, and of course, they have slower CPUs.

cj3209 · #23 Post by **cj3209** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:47 pm

aamsel:

I believe there are only a handful of LCD manufacturers out there (Samsung, etc.) and they supply pretty much ALL the notebook companies.

If I were you, I would buy from a retail B&M store like CompUSA, BestBuy, PCMall, PortableOne, and your local store and test out the LCD BEFORE you buy the product. That way, you KNOW you'll be getting the LCD you want.

BTW, you can buy ThinkPads from your local vendor.

Good Luck!

#24 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:45 pm

I appreciate your comments, but it is not quite that simple....

First off, there are far more LCD manufacturers than you might think. IBM uses Samsung, IDTech and others, HP has 6+ sources for every panel size and type, as does Dell.

Any notebook I would be interested in is not available in local "big box" stores. Locally, there are just typical HP, Toshiba, SONY, Fujitsu offerings and the like, mostly low-end, and non-upgradeable.

There are no Thinkpads available from Austin, Texas outlets. Doesn't really matter, though, since I no longer want one.
I have tried every IBM model that I might possibly be interested in.

Andrew
Austin, TX

cj3209 wrote:aamsel:

I believe there are only a handful of LCD manufacturers out there (Samsung, etc.) and they supply pretty much ALL the notebook companies.

If I were you, I would buy from a retail B&M store like CompUSA, BestBuy, PCMall, PortableOne, and your local store and test out the LCD BEFORE you buy the product. That way, you KNOW you'll be getting the LCD you want.

BTW, you can buy ThinkPads from your local vendor.

Good Luck!

Chatbox · #25 Post by **Chatbox** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:00 pm

So in another word, you just want the old style, average display. No whistles and bells. Just plain old 1024x768 display....

Hum....boring. But then if that's that you ONLY need, then that's it.

JHEM · #26 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:02 pm

Gonna' be sorry to see you go Andrew.

Regards,

James

califas · #27 Post by **califas** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:24 pm

Im in my late 20s and still have perfect 20/20 as my eye exam last week proved. Im in front of a computer 6 hours everyday but ONLY use XGA resolution. I dont think its a coincidence.

Even as someone with "perfect" vision I dislike anything above XGA on a 14" display.

#28 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:31 pm

That is what I want.
XGA.
Lots of people use them.
When the next version of Windows comes out, and has TRUE scalability, then high resolution will be viable. Until then, no.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Chatbox wrote:So in another word, you just want the old style, average display. No whistles and bells. Just plain old 1024x768 display....

Hum....boring. But then if that's that you ONLY need, then that's it.

#29 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:32 pm

Who is Adam ???

Andrew
Austin, TX

JHEM wrote:Gonna' be sorry to see you go Adam.

Regards,

James

JHEM · #30 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:35 pm

aamsel wrote:Who is Adam ???

Oops! Mea culpa!

Brain fart.

Regards,

James

Returned my last Thinkpad...well maybe not !

Returned my last Thinkpad...well maybe not !

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