T41 + 8GB CF-IDE (Solid State)

Message

iamdmc · #1 Post by **iamdmc** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:21 pm

Has anyone invested the $3 for the CF-IDE adapter and another $40-80 for a decent CF card? I'm thinking of doing this for a T41 - what do you guys think? Is it a good idea? Will I see an improvement in battery life and performance from a 40GB 5400RPM drive?

#2 Post by **Johan** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:39 pm

... there is a long thread about CF-SSD's in X41's - see X24 + addonics IDE-CF adapter pointing to Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41?; there might be some interesting info there? Here in the T4x forum, there is surprisingly little info about SSD's, but a thread discussing CF-SSD's is $20 for a SSD workaround? and another T4x-related thread is SSD T41 not possible

.

I am very interested in a (bootable, primary PATA w/XP) SSD, but I would rather not want to spend $400+ until I know for sure that it will work in my T42p...

Johan

sjthinkpader · #3 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:44 pm

I bought an adapter at Akihabara in Tokyo and used a 2GB CF. It was too short to go in the HDD slot so I used a Ultrabay tray. It worked fine but 2GB was too small and I could only load a browser at that size. An 8GB or 16GB CF would be great.

iamdmc · #4 Post by **iamdmc** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:23 pm

SJ - What were your load times like? Any noticeable battery life increase? How was the performance vs. a normal 5400RPM drive?

sjthinkpader · #5 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:51 pm

Boot is noticeably faster. Not so noticeably faster in use. I was hitting paging limits frequently with that 2GB CF card.

iamdmc · #6 Post by **iamdmc** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:02 pm

Paging limits? Excuse my ignorance, but could you explain this more?

sjthinkpader · #7 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:52 pm

When programs memory space exceeded the RAM size, OS will use disk space to supplement RAM space. In this case available disk space in the 2GB CF is only a few hundred KBs. Then the browser refuses to load certain web pages.

iamdmc · #8 Post by **iamdmc** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:03 pm

Can you get around this by having enough RAM and disabling the windows pagefile? I've disabled it on all of my computers and my laptops, since they all have 4GB of RAM.

Would that solve it, or am I confusing "paging" with "page file"?

sjthinkpader · #9 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:23 am

I never tried disabling page files. Easiest is just use a 16GB CF card. They are available now.

ulrich.von.lich · #10 Post by **ulrich.von.lich** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:46 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:Boot is noticeably faster. Not so noticeably faster in use. I was hitting paging limits frequently with that 2GB CF card.

2GB? Are you running linux on it? And what kind of CF card you have? I heard even the Sandisk Extreme III is not fast enough.

A 16GB Extreme IV or Lexar Pro UMDA would cost a lot. If I remember right, there is some sort of IDE-CF adapter which takes two CF cards.(won't work in T43/X41 though). It might be a cheaper solution.

Btw, for those of you who don't know, MyMemory.co.uk sells cheap CF cards and they ship worldwide. I just ordered two Extreme III 4GB for my Olympus E-410.

frankiepankie · #11 Post by **frankiepankie** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:49 pm

One big downside of flash memory, is that it wears out.

If you install XP on your CF card, the card will be destroyed after 2/3 years of usage, because of the heavy usage (pagefile from Win XP).

ulrich.von.lich · #12 Post by **ulrich.von.lich** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:45 pm

frankiepankie wrote:One big downside of flash memory, is that it wears out.

Do you think it's covered by Sandisk's life-time warranty?

Maybe CF cards are not SSDs after all. In the X300 forum, they've calculated and it takes something like 20 years even if you "try" to destroy it

sjthinkpader · #13 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:47 pm

ulrich.von.lich wrote:
sjthinkpader wrote:Boot is noticeably faster. Not so noticeably faster in use. I was hitting paging limits frequently with that 2GB CF card.
2GB? Are you running linux on it? And what kind of CF card you have? I heard even the Sandisk Extreme III is not fast enough.

....

No, is was a small XP installation with quite a bit left off.

Slow cards are primarily slow in write and not read. This was a "slow" A-Data card.

frankiepankie wrote:One big downside of flash memory, is that it wears out.

If you install XP on your CF card, the card will be destroyed after 2/3 years of usage, because of the heavy usage (pagefile from Win XP).

Yes, wear out is a problem but the card controller has wear leveling algorithm to help that. There are several levels of repair/spares strategy in the card.

The Samsung SSD may have more sophisticated algorithm but I doubt it is ground breaking technology in those drives. M-System is the longest flash based SSD maker so these designs should have the most experience.

iamdmc · #14 Post by **iamdmc** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:05 pm

Sandisk 8GB Extreme IV goes for about $70 shipped on eBay (from a good seller) so I might try that.

As for wear due to pagefile usage - turn off the page file

I have enough RAM in my systems that the pagefile actually slows the system down so I disabled it and my systems run much better because of that (most space on HDD too!)

I think lifetime warranty should cover it, considering that it's a "premium" card that Sandisk made many hundreds of percentage points profit on it - and in a few years it won't be worth $5.

My vote is still that 8GB Extreme IV + IDE-(dual)CF (or SATA-CF for Desktops and X60/T60 series) as a cheap SSD option.

If I buy two 8GB cards ($70 each) plus the $10 adapter, that'll be a $150 16GB SSD. Not horrible, but yeah not great. Maybe I'll stick to just one 8GB CF card

nkh · #15 Post by **nkh** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:48 pm

iamdmc wrote:If I buy two 8GB cards ($70 each) plus the $10 adapter, that'll be a $150 16GB SSD. Not horrible, but yeah not great. Maybe I'll stick to just one 8GB CF card

Hopefully it'll be faster than this 32GB SSD @ $175: Transcend TS32GSSD25-M

That said, I've been running a linux web server off a 2GB CF card in a CD->IDE adapter, and it worked perfectly. I don't remember having any problems regarding the CF card.

iamdmc · #16 Post by **iamdmc** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:26 pm

You make a good point - price wise. I've heard some negative things about the Transcend SSDs, however.

If I were to go SSD, I'd prefer MTron

nkh · #17 Post by **nkh** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:44 pm

iamdmc wrote:You make a good point - price wise. I've heard some negative things about the Transcend SSDs, however.

Yeah, just look at the comments on newegg's website

It is cheap though..

tahsan · #18 Post by **tahsan** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:29 pm

For last 1 month may be more i am running my thinkpad with cf card. yes no more horroble hdd noise and hdd locking. though I had to spend a decent amount of money as well. For cf card first i bought a sandisk 8gb iv card but it turned out to be a fake one. So I forget about ebay and bought a lexar media card 8gb(300x).

My cf to hdd converter was a cheap ebay one which i bought for only £2+postage. It was easy to setup. But after that it was horroble. First i tried vista. it does not recognise the hdd. than i tried media centre. which install very nicely but gives error saying ntldr missing.

The only software that runs are win 98 and windows xp home and proff.

The booting time is very very fast. I am really impressed about that. its quite and you can do anything.

The only horroble thing is windows recognise it as a removable drive. i heard that some expensive cf converter can recognise cf card as fixed disk. but i am not shure about that.

after installing office 2007 and xp sp3 still i got 3gb left on my cf card. though i have used xplite to reduce some unnecessary file from xp. And you can not install virus scanner and can not use windows update site because they do not recognise hdd. But you can update windows by manually download the file.

I am using my old hdd through multibay. But i have got 8gb in my cf converter(its 2 one) and 1gb cf card and one 1gb sd card through card reader. [8+8+1+1+60gb hdd] Not bad really.

sojourner · #19 Post by **sojourner** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:08 pm

tahsan wrote:My cf to hdd converter was a cheap ebay one which i bought for only £2+postage. It was easy to setup.
I am using my old hdd through multibay. But i have got 8gb in my cf converter(its 2 one) and 1gb cf card and one 1gb sd card through card reader. [8+8+1+1+60gb hdd] Not bad really.

Sounds like a project I'd like to try myself! tahsan, would you explain more about the CF to HDD converter (a link to one on ebay perhaps?). Don't understand your setup. Is the CF in the HDD bay? Is it in the PCMCIA bay? Is it in a USB adapter?

Would also like to know how you installed XP. Did you do it from a standard Windows XP installation CD?

Well, you get the point ... we need a LOT more information!

Thanks

tahsan · #20 Post by **tahsan** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:41 am

http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_ ... midecf.asp

you can try these one they are expensive but heard that they are better made. or else just go to ebay search for compact flash converter or you can google search it as well.

These converter straightway goes in to your hdd bay and then works as a hdd. The only problem is depends upon cf card bios will recognise them as a fixed or removable disk(i am little bit confused about this still).

As windows recognise my cf card as a removable disk, i could not install vista

.

About installation, if you got 8gb or more cf card does not matter you can setup windows like normal. but if have less than that specially less than 2gb than its little bit hassle. I recomend 8gb because these are not that expensive anymore; and you will need some extra space for office and other software.

tahsan · #21 Post by **tahsan** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:48 am

i have a video of my laptops boot i will try to post it on rapidshare later.

i wanted ssd but really they are too expensive right now and the only cheap one is transcend one which seems like horrobly slow.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8GB-Solid-State-D ... dZViewItem

this one is mine http://www.lexar.com/digfilm/cf_udma.html

sjthinkpader · #22 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:01 am

tahsan wrote:...
These converter straightway goes in to your hdd bay and then works as a hdd. The only problem is depends upon cf card bios will recognise them as a fixed or removable disk(i am little bit confused about this still).

As windows recognise my cf card as a removable disk, i could not install vista .
....

Here is an adapter purchased at Akihabara electronics town in Tokyo for about US$5.

CF-PATA (115KB file)

It works fine in the HDD slot but since it is short, I used a HDD drive tray and it works fine there too. Note that it has a master/slave jumper and it doesn't work in the slave mode. I have XP installed from an OEM CD on this 2GB CF card.

sojourner · #23 Post by **sojourner** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:09 am

sjthinkpader, does the CF in the Ultrabay run in PIO or UDMA mode (curious which UDMA also if it does)?

BTW, thanks tahsan for providing the extra information!
Now I've got to figure out how XP was installed ... must have been a regular CD.

tahsan · #24 Post by **tahsan** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:19 pm

Thank you for the picture. My one is similar but with two side. So you can put 2 cf cards; it’s like two hdd. I haven’t put it in the multibay i installed it in my hd drive bay and put the hard disk into multibay.

Install xp like a normal setup, of course if you have more 4gb cf card. Than by using xplite you can stripe all the unnecessary bits from the operating system like paint, moviemaker, help file, welcome movie etc. Do remember that xplite does not work on sp3 so you have to get rid of the unnecessary file before you install sp3.

sjthinkpader · #25 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:32 am

sojourner wrote:sjthinkpader, does the CF in the Ultrabay run in PIO or UDMA mode (curious which UDMA also if it does)?
....

How do I check whether it is in PIO or UDMA mode?

tahsan · #26 Post by **tahsan** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:38 am

sjthinkpader, to check do this

My computer>properties>device manager>IDE ATAPI controller> Primary IDE channel properties>Advanced settings.

both primary and secondery should be in dma mode not pio mode.
My one is running in ultra dma 4; which is supposed to because lexar supports udma 4.

Heres the video. its 3gp(sony erricsson) format. you can use windows media player classic to play it or anything you got.

http://rapidshare.com/files/108663723/DSC00026.3GP

iamdmc · #27 Post by **iamdmc** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:27 am

Out of curiosity, where did you buy the 8GB CF card (the good one) and how much did it cost?

Also, I've considered buying the Sandisk Extreme IV off of eBay - which seller did you use (so I can steer clear of him)?

Nice video, by the way. Very fast and impressive.

tahsan · #28 Post by **tahsan** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:49 am

You can try this one http://www.tristatecamera.com/lookat.ph ... EX8GBCF300

as i am located in uk i bought it from http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Digital-Camer ... pact-Flash

Personally i do not recommend ebay for memory cards. Most of the time I found out that outside market is cheaper and more reliable than ebay in uk.
The guy who sold me is now barred from ebay.

Speed is ok. Now days i dont mind to restart my machine at all. Its start quickly and shuts down quickly as well. the only bad thing is when you want to install something its takes ages. But when it installed the application runs nicely.

The best part is no more hdd clicling noise. You dont believe how much noise can a hdd makes untill you try these.

tahsan · #29 Post by **tahsan** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:05 am

I choose lexar(45mb/s) because its mch more faster than extreem iv (40mb/s). In UK they are same price. sandisk does not provides any info about udma capable or not. And learned from some other forums about difficulties with this card with converter.

But most important thing was lexar was cheaper and faster than sandisk and it is backed crucial. (http://www.lexar.com/about/index.html ).

iamdmc · #30 Post by **iamdmc** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:24 pm

Tristate camera has the card for only $80! In Canada, it costs $180.
The problem is that I don't think that they ship, and the card is $80 only after an $80 mail in rebate (which is valid for US only, I think)

Would you happen to know any good retailers of memory in Canada? If not, do you know how I could swing this $80 deal from the US retailer without actually going to and living in the US?

T41 + 8GB CF-IDE (Solid State)

T41 + 8GB CF-IDE (Solid State)

cf card as hdd

Re: cf card as hdd

Who is online