will the M22 outperform the Mobility Radeon 9600?

[xcrunner51]

According to the other threads, the new T43 coming out next year is going to have an ATI M22, which according to some googled sources is based on the X300. Since the X300 is based off the 9600SE, I'm wondering if it will even outperform the regular 9600, much less the 9600 pro/pro turbo or 9700.

[nicpottier]

This article:

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-1239-x-x-x

Implies that the X300 and X600 are actually very similar. The X300 should actually run cooler. They imply the main performance difference would be due to X300's sharing system memory. It sounds like that won't be the case for the T43's though, so maybe the performance will actually be very close?

Certainly should be better than the current 9600 and 9700 offerings.

-Nic

[xcrunner51]

thanks, do you know what the M24P going to be based off of?

[Conmee]

A compilation of my posts from the T43 thread...

X600 (M24) is essentially a MR9700-PCI Express component. Will also include some new features like updated PowerPlay 5.0 and LCD Enhancement Engine designed to improve digital video and HD on LCD screens. So you should see comparable/slightly improved performance in the X600 when compared to the MR9700, and certainly much better performance when compared to the MR9600.

Here's a snippet and URL...

"ATi has previously announced their Mobility Radeon X600 GPU codenamed M24 (X300=M22) at Computex Taipei back in June this year and is the first mobile GPU offering that is native PCI Express based. Mobility Radeon X600 shares that same architecture of its predecessor, the Mobility Radeon 9700 with Low-K 0.13 micron process but has an upgraded 3D core which further boosts graphics performance. It has 4 pixel pipes, 2 vertex pipes and based on 128-bit DDR memory interface. (Check out our Computex Taipei 2004 report)

It supports DirectX 9.0 features, reduced LCD latency, LCD-EE display engine which increase display quality at higher resolutions and Powerplay 5 which improved power management for longer battery life. Mobility Radeon X600 is available in 3 different versions: a discreet version for high-performance notebooks based on the new mobile graphics interface Axiom (Advanced eXpress IO Module) as well as 64 or 128MB integrated memory for thin and light based on the reliable MCM (Multi-Chip Module) technology.
"

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=1064&s=1


Probably the most relevant quote...

"It is pretty clear that Mobility X600 offers better performance than the Mobility Radeon 9700 with higher 3DMark2003 and Aquamark GFX scores."

The 3dMark 2003 score for X600 = 3220
The 3dMark 2003 score for 9700 = 2933
The 3dMark 2003 score for GLT2 = 2629 (my own T42p score)

Since the new T43/T43p with Fire GL based on X600 (M24) and NOT on the X800 , there will still be a substantial increase in performance. If you like how Doom3 and HL2 run on your MR9600/64MB or FireGLT2/128MB ThinkPads, then those games should look awesome on the T43p.

OEMs have the option of using AXIOM 'boards', essentially the upgradeable GPUs from ATI (AXIOM is ATI's term for their upgradeable PCI Express mobile GPU boards). However, the X300/X600/GL will all be of the FlexFit variety and soldered to the T43 motherboard. There will not be upgradeable video components in ThinkPads in 2005. Current IBM ThinkPad roadmaps are in place for the next 18 months, so any changes that Lenovo might introduce won't appear until 2006 at the earliest.

"AXIOM™ (Advanced eXpress I/O Module) is a new design concept, enabling Notebook designers and users to reap the benefit of PCI Express, and achieve faster time-to-market with cutting edge, innovative solutions. "


Daniel

[nicpottier]

From the article:

The Mobility Radeon X300 will be ATI's mainstream notebook solution. The four-pipeline, 350/250MHz X300 actually has the same number of pipes as the Mobility Radeon 9700, but the X300 is based on the newer R420 technology. However, the benefits of the X300's advanced architecture will be mitigated by an increased reliance on shared system memory, since most value notebooks don't offer much in terms of dedicated video-card memory. We might still see mainstream notebooks with excellent X300 performance, since the X300's Multi-Chip Module (MCM) package is still capable of integrating memory on the graphics chip. For those stuck with a shared memory subsystem, ATI's HyperMemory technology will take advantage of the PCI Express bus to shuttle graphics data to and from system memory.

[cchsiao]

If I remember it correctly, IBM didn't tune up their 3D performace. They aim to save more power instead of gaining more performace on Thinkpad. In order to do so, they decrease the GPU frequency and this certainly will impact on the overall 3D performace. I think the 3dmark score for X600 is based on the desktop model and it won't be that fast on Thinkpad, but I am not quite sure. Good thing is that at least its better than 9600.

Sorry for my poor English. Hope that you all will understand what I mean.

[Conmee]

If I remember it correctly, IBM didn't tune up their 3D performace. They aim to save more power instead of gaining more performace on Thinkpad. In order to do so, they decrease the GPU frequency and this certainly will impact on the overall 3D performace. I think the 3dmark score for X600 is based on the desktop model and it won't be that fast on Thinkpad, but I am not quite sure. Good thing is that at least its better than 9600.

Sorry for my poor English. Hope that you all will understand what I mean.

cchsiao,

Your English is excellent. No worries.

As for the 3DMark score I mentioned, it was a Mobility Radeon X600 pre-production notebook system, click on the link above for full details (benchmark scores and test system specs on Page 3). In fact, the article mentions that the notebook system is using 512MB DDR2 RAM in single channel mode, and that the benchmarks they ran should actually look better on a production model utilizing the memory at full speed (with timing issues worked out).

IBM almost always underclocks their GPUs. However, with ATITool or RadLinker/RadClocker, you can easily adjust the GPU/VRAM speeds to ATI specs.

On my T42p, with FireGL T2/128MB the factory clockings are 317.25/202.50 but I keep mine overclocked at 348.00/248.00 (I find these settings are a nice balance between heat/stability/performance.

My scores (you can see my system specs in my sig):

3DMark01 (factory settings) = 9646
3DMark01 (o/c'd) = 10553

3DMark03 (factory settings) = 2629
3DMark03 (o/c'd) = 2910

When o\c'd, using IBM's latest ATI drivers, I get MR9700-like performance, in terms of benchmark scores, from my FireGL T2.

Daniel.