HDD Password...

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SimonCC · #1 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:11 am

if you set a HDD pw, do you have to enter this pw very time you start up, or do you only have to enter it if it is removed from your machine?

Thanks,

Simon.

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:19 am

You have to enter it every time. Make the HD password the same as your power on password and you only have to enter it once for both functions. Of course, if you remove the HD, anyone trying to use it will be challenged for the password. ... JD Hurst

SimonCC · #3 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:25 am

when you say 'power on password' do you mean log on pw - as in my uvm logon or do you mean the power on pw that you set in bios? If it is the one from bios, i think ill just leave it as ill have to enter 2 pws at startup...

thanks in advance,

simon.

WilsonF · #4 Post by **WilsonF** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:36 am

Depending on your model, you may have to enter both a hdd password and a windows logon password. The hdd password is pretty effective at locking people who don't know the password out of your hard drive, although there are places that advertise that they will unlock the data for about $200.

There are two points to this. First, if a thief can't turn on your laptop and restore to factory condition, the laptop is more likely to be "found" and returned for a "reward"/ransome than to be sold. Second, it is minimal protecttion for data without the hassles of the IBM file and folder encryption.

WilsonF · #5 Post by **WilsonF** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:37 am

Depending on your model, you may have to enter both a hdd password and a windows logon password. The hdd password is pretty effective at locking people who don't know the password out of your hard drive, although there are places that advertise that they will unlock the data for about $200.

There are two points to this. First, if a thief can't turn on your laptop and restore to factory condition, the laptop is more likely to be "found" and returned for a "reward"/ransome than to be sold. Second, it is minimal protecttion for data without the hassles of the IBM file and folder encryption.

SimonCC · #6 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:58 am

depending on my model?? So i assume there are differances for pw settings in the t42 line up then...weird. well having 2 passwords at start-up is just silly so looks like a big no to hdd pws.

JHEM · #7 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:19 am

You're getting some bad info. You should definitely have both a Power On Password (POP) AND a Supervisor Password (SP) set on your laptop as basic security steps.

If YOU don't set them, anyone else can!

If the HD PW matches the POP, you won't be prompted for it on startup. However you will be prompted for the POP on startup and this is separate from any PW your OS might require.

Regards,

James

SimonCC · #8 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:05 am

ahh ok, yes, that makes sense! thanks for the help mate.

SimonCC · #9 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:23 am

[censored] IT! just set my hdd pw the same as my supervisor pw and still im prompted to enter the hdd pw at startup. what the hell is happening here guys??

Leon · #10 Post by **Leon** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:36 am

shouldn't.. remove all passwords, reboot, then go in and set both the same and reboot.. should only ask once....

SimonCC · #11 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:00 pm

bingo! thanks Leon, where would i be without all you guys...saving the world perhaps?? hmm....

Ghostrider · #12 Post by **Ghostrider** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:12 pm

In terms of security: If there is a tool or hack to read out the BIOS-PWD a thief would get access to the harddrive as well. (It's the same).

Right now I have to enter two different passwords but according to this thread I tend to change the HDD-PWD to the same as the POP-PWD.

hmmmmmmmm.... Has someone of you ever tried to get access to a locked harddrive? Maybe like this: Set the HDD-PWD the same as the POP and try to use this "locked" harddrive in another laptop....

JHEM · #13 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:32 pm

A PW protected HD will not allow access regardless of which machine you put it in.

Regards,

James

Leon · #14 Post by **Leon** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:50 pm

Ghostrider wrote:In terms of security: If there is a tool or hack to read out the BIOS-PWD a thief would get access to the hard drive as well. (It's the same).

Right now I have to enter two different passwords but according to this thread I tend to change the HDD-PWD to the same as the POP-PWD. hmmmmmmmm.... Has someone of you ever tried to get access to a locked hard drive? Maybe like this: Set the HDD-PWD the same as the POP and try to use this "locked" hard drive in another laptop....

I agree, but for my "money", I'm just protecting from the "casual" hacker/thief. As noted before, if someone really wants/needs to bypass any of this, and money is no object, they can. However, I prefer the convenience of setting only one common password. Then, both the machine and hard drive are protected from all but the most motivated thief. And I have the convenience of not typing in 2 passwords each time I need access to my own machine.

SimonCC wrote:bingo! thanks Leon, where would i be without all you guys...saving the world perhaps?? hmm....

Glad I could help... Merry Christmas.. now, on to Saving The World!

Ghostrider · #15 Post by **Ghostrider** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:54 pm

That was already clear to me so I have to express my thoughts a little bit more precise:

If you set the HDD-PWD to the same value as the POP you don't have to enter the HDD-PWD during the boot.

So what is REALLY done behind the scenes? Is the HDD-PWD setting just "dropped" because during the process of setting the HDD-PWD the system recognized that these PWDs are equal and therefor not necessary / no benefit.
OR is just the POP automatically used for the HDD-PWD.

It's a weired thought and it would be a worse failure but has anyone really tested if the HDD-PWD is REALLY set if it has the same "value" as the POP?

Leon · #16 Post by **Leon** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:57 pm

Good question--- me THINKS that the password is "passed along", and that if the Drive is removed, it holds that password.... but, other comments/ verifications are welcome!

SimonCC · #17 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:01 pm

just to re-iterate ghostrider, you are asking: if the supervisor password is the same as the hdd password, is the hdd password in effect disabled?

Ghostrider · #18 Post by **Ghostrider** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:13 pm

SimonCC wrote:just to re-iterate ghostrider, you are asking: if the supervisor password is the same as the hdd password, is the hdd password in effect disabled?

I thought it was the Bios Power-On-Password that has to match the hdd password to enter just ONE at boot time?! (Power-on-PWD = user-PWD... Supervisor = PWD to change BIOS settings)

Well, I mean the combinations in which you set hdd AND Bios PWDs to the same not empty values but just have to enter the password ONCE.

I think Leon understood what I meant. I THINK or HOPE the same: The once inserted password should be "automatically reused" for both passwords. So they are both set. If you take the HDD out it will be protected with the PWD.
But for me it'S not enough to "think" or "hope" this. I'd like to KNOW it! I have just one notebook and no notebook-IDE => standard IDE adapter at home. Maybe I can get one from our company but we just have ONE of these and have to be ready in case of a problem with a users notebook...

SimonCC · #19 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:22 pm

I think it has to match eithar the power on pw or supervisor...and surely if your hd was not protected because both pws are the same, the bios would notify you that you hd was not protected, i cannot imagine IBM screwing up that bad!

JHEM · #20 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:23 pm

Ghostrider wrote:It's a weired thought and it would be a worse failure but has anyone really tested if the HDD-PWD is REALLY set if it has the same "value" as the POP?

Yes, the PW is truly on the HD and not simply "dropped".

When you turn the machine on and enter the POP, the value is checked with the HD PW and if they are equal you're not prompted for the HD PW.

If you remove the HD and place it in another machine, you won't be able to access it without the PW if the new machine supports this feature. If not, then the HD is simply not recognized by the new machine and is not accessible.

Regards,

James

SimonCC · #21 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:42 pm

OR even if you have no pop set, when you first set the hdd pw it will ask for your hd pw once and then match it to your supervisor pw - from then on you are prompted no more, unless, as stated above, your hd is moved to another machine. Also i would just like to add that there is much fatalism surrounding IBM's security measures. Lets be realistic, unless you are a government official etc with highly sensitive data - the kind that would attract very well equipped computer techs - using a hdd pw, bios pw and windows pw/ibm uvm will provide excellant deterrants against thieves. What kind of common thief is gonna spend hundreds of dollers cracking your hd? Also, imagine when the thief steals your laptop only to find you have something called IBM client security at login, considering most thieves wanna sell ASAP, this is very frustrating indeed. Teamed with IBM's very useful encryptin tools,or the equivalent, your data is deffinately secure!

JHEM · #22 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:26 pm

SimonCC wrote:OR even if you have no pop set, when you first set the hdd pw it will ask for your hd pw once and then match it to your supervisor pw - from then on you are prompted no more, unless, as stated above, your hd is moved to another machine.

Actually, no as there are both user and SP PWs that can be set separately on the HD.

However, when the user PW is set it appears at BOOT and most think it's a POP.

Regards,

James

SimonCC · #23 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:32 pm

not sure what that has to do with what i said: what i said is correct because i only have a supervisor pw set. And it is this that the hdd pw has merged with/is the same is. I am aware that you can set a user password also.

#24 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:18 pm

Ghostrider wrote:That was already clear to me so I have to express my thoughts a little bit more precise:

If you set the HDD-PWD to the same value as the POP you don't have to enter the HDD-PWD during the boot.

So what is REALLY done behind the scenes? Is the HDD-PWD setting just "dropped" because during the process of setting the HDD-PWD the system recognized that these PWDs are equal and therefor not necessary / no benefit.
OR is just the POP automatically used for the HDD-PWD.

It's a weired thought and it would be a worse failure but has anyone really tested if the HDD-PWD is REALLY set if it has the same "value" as the POP?

Watch the screen carefully. When you turn on, there is a lock (POP). Enter the password, and there will be a pause. Then a "1" will appear in the lock. That is the HD check. Another small pause and you are on your way. I am fairly certain the one (i.e., same) password is used twice in two checks - not just dropped. ... JD Hurst

SimonCC · #25 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:24 pm

but how can you explain there being no lock, which would apply to people not using pop - so a straight boot to windows pw/ibm uvm - then there is no visual check but i do beleive that the same thing is happening 'behind the scenes'.

SimonCC · #26 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:50 pm

SimonCC · #27 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:11 pm

guys im sorry but i once again need some help. I thought i had solved my problem but it turns out i havnt as when i shut down down my system and switched it on again i was asked for my hd pw!!

Because i was only rebooting before it never asked for it. Here is what i have done to try and 'merge' the passwords for supervisor and hdd pws:

1. go into bios and disable/clear all passwords
2.save and reboot.
3.choose bios/supervisor pw.
4. choose hdd pw identical to supervisor under USER option and not user and administrator..
5.save and exit

and still im asked for my hdd pw at start-up. Do you think i need to choose the user + admin pw when setting the hdd pw - im not sure what that does.

Once again, sorry to trouble you all, but this is troubling me!

Simon.

JHEM · #28 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:03 pm

SimonCC wrote:and still im asked for my hdd pw at start-up. Do you think i need to choose the user + admin pw when setting the hdd pw - im not sure what that does.

On a cold start you're going to be asked for the HD PW regardless of whether you have a user PW set or an SP HD PW set.

If you have a HD PW set of any kind, you'll be prompted for it at startup, unless you have a POP set and the HD PW and POP match..

Sorry if I gave the impression that it works otherwise.

Regards,

James the Tired!

SimonCC · #29 Post by **SimonCC** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:09 pm

JHem - i really appreciate your time and patience and thank you for clearing this messy issue up. Its a shame there is no way of preventing the hd pw from showing at start-up unless you use pop. It would be ridiculous for me to have a pop and a uvm/windows logon also, guess my hd is gonna have to remain unlocked...

Thanks again everyone for your help!

#30 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:44 pm

Simon - I'm not sure what you are troubling with. If it is your machine, you don't really need a supervisor password. So get rid of that. Then pick a Power on Password and a Hard Drive password that are identical. Then you only get asked once on startup *and* your hard drive is locked. The Windows password is a different issue.

So to belt and suspender: I start my ThinkPad from a cold start. My Hard Drive is locked. It shows me the lock. I enter one password. The system starts and Windows asks me for another password.

If you only want one Windows Password, then remove the ThinkPad passwords and know that you are much less secure.

... JD Hurst

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