?'s about practicality aspects of T42 & T42 configuratio

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?'s about practicality aspects of T42 & T42 configuratio

#1 Post by Matt_ » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:40 am

Hi all

I have been doing my best to do my "homework" first on the t42 with the flexview 15" screen by reading through all the related threads on this forum.

There are some questions that I have relating to various aspects of day-to-day usage of the t42 and also aspects of the t42 customizing along with the issue of deciding between an R51 and the T42.
Any help with even just a few of the questions will be greatly appreciated!

I have had a chance over the last few weeks to have lots of hands-on time with the (heavier and somewhat more awkwardly-sized) widescreen dell 8600 (with a 1900x1200 WUXGA lcd) and also an R50p thinkpad; from this I've developed a much clearer idea of what I do and do not want in a laptop for myself.

1a) After the 8600 lcd, I know that I do not want a UXGA resolution; to try to get a feel for what the t42 15" SXGA+ resolution would be like, I went to a Fry's electronics today and spent a little time with a Fujitsu n-series laptop (16" lcd) with an SXGA+ resolution (at 96dpi) and two other laptops with the same resolution and dpi setting as the fujitsu. For some reason, text on the fujitsu seemed easier to read than on the other two, despite the identical resolution and dpi settings.

And with many of the posts in this forum remarking that text-size on this T42 15"screen/sxga+ resolution is just fine and, generally speaking, still easy to read/view, is it things like contrast, brightness, and maybe even pixel density that is accounting for these differences in text appearance and viewability from laptop brand to laptop brand (despite identical resolution and dpi setting) ?


2a) What I really liked about the R50p and what had me interested (prior to researching the T42) in purchasing an R51 (such as the 18386BBU or 1836BCU was the sloped palmrest. I was surprised by how it added a little bit of comfortability while using the keyboard.
Now, on the other hand, I like the fact that the T42-15"Flexview is about a pound lighter (~ 5.8lb vs R51's 6.6lb) -- I want a laptop light enough for when I'm on-the-go (I realize that the 14.1" version would be lighter, but I want the Flexview features; plus I'm tall and have large hands and I've read that the palmrest area is larger on the T42-15" laptop than on the T42-14.1" laptop).
Another big plus is the difference in case materials between T and R models.

I've only had a total of a few minutes with a T-notebook (with the 14.1" screen) -- long enough to notice that it doesn't have the noticeable sloped palmrest of the R-notebook but not enough time to be able to judge what it would be like typing during regular use with what appeared to be a flat palmrest with perhaps the slightest bit of slope to it.
If I went with a T-notebook, the only thing I'd be losing out on is the R51's sloped palmrest and also the money from the difference in cost between the T42 and R51.
So here's where I'd value your input, particularly from those who've been using a T-series notebook for awhile and comment on the comfortability-aspect of it.

(Also, another thought that I had on the matter is that an annoying thing about laptops (such as the 8600) that have a greater height (i.e. are in the 1.5 to 2.0" range) is that, being tall and being concerned about proper positioning of arms while typing to prevent sore wrists, I have to adjust my chair and position which in turn means that I have to angle the screen farther back in order to see it at the right viewing angle.

Perhaps another advantage of the T-series is that with its lower height of 1", I would have less futzing around to do with my chair, position, and screen angle ? what do you think ?)


2b) The 15"Flexview sxga+ screens of the T42 & R51 have different graphics cards (T42: 60MB 9600 , R51: 32MsB 9000); is this going to make the text and software programs look better, sharper, or better color appearance/saturation-wise, despite the 15"Flexview screen of the two units having apprently identical specs ?
I read Daniel's comments on the matter
I would spend up to $400 difference to get a laptop with Mobility Radeon 9600 or FireGL T2 just for the advanced DirectX9.0b support, as the Mobility 7500/9000/FireGL 9000 in the T40 models is DirectX8.1 compliant, and doesn't support the latest graphics features and games (games will still play, just won't take advantage of the latest pixel shaders, etc). Even if you don't play video games or do CAD, it's cheap insurance up front to buy the best graphics you can in your laptop... as that is really what ages fastest in a notebook computer. And the fact that video/graphic card can't be upgraded (except in a couple Dell or Alienware notebooks), it's better to put in the extra cash up front, IMHO. For daily web surfing and email and Word, true, the benefits won't be noticed, but I still think, if you can scrap together the money to get a T41/T42 with Mobility Radeon 9600 or FireGL T2, it'll be worth it.
I was wondering if someone could clarify the matter for me. I'm not a gamer, so I am still a little unclear on how the difference in the 64MB-9600 and 32MB-9000 would affect someone like me; with the idea of "future-proofing" a person's laptop configuration, obviously I don't need to get carried away and buy a laptop with a 128MB 9600 card, but I'm not clear on what and why would be the sufficient card for across the next several years of owning the laptop.


2c) I was extremely impressed by the brightness, color saturation and viewing angles of the R50p's 15" UXGA screen.
Is the experience with the 15"SXGA+screen comparable ?


3) With regards to the choice of optical drive, I've been weighing "future-proofing" vs. what I really need at this present time. While a DVD-recordable drive would be nice, there's the cost aspect and also the 16x CD-R and 4x CD-RW recording speeds ( http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=507 ) versus the 24x CD-R and 24x CD-RW recording speed of the DVD-ROM/CDRW drive that comes with almost all the t42 preconfigured models. I have very little experience with CD-R/RW drives and, if I probably am not going to have a need for a DVD-R/RW drive, is there a great enough benefit from 24x over 16x that I ought to pass on the DVD-R/RW drive (for now at least until prices come down down the road) ? Also, besides the reason that I can think of of being able to transfer video to a DVD, is there some other big advantage to spending the extra $ for a DVD-R/RW drive ?


4a) I was looking over the spec's (in the tabook.pdf) for the 2379-DXU and the several 2373 models. Is there any big real-world perceptible difference between a 1.7 Dothan and 1.8 Dothan Pentium M ?
And would there be any big difference in battery usage between the 1.7 and 1.8 ?
Will there be any newer R models coming out with the Dothan Pentium M ?

4b) And in a related question, I've been trying to get a handle on hard drive speed and capacity for my modest needs. I wouldn't be using the laptop for gaming and probably almost little to no chance of video editing/downloading/transfering. Plus I've read where some people notice the vibration from the 60GB 7200RPM HDD -- and I thought, well, maybe that vibration might be more pronounced and noticeable in a thinner notebook like the t-series. So what is your opinion on how to decide between the different HDD options ?
Also, if I decide to order a configuration with a lower capacity hard drive, can it be replaced (for whatever the reason at some point down the road) by the owner without much difficulty and cost ?
And is there any trade-off on an 80GB hdd ? E.g. any diff. in hard drive-longevity or heat generated (vs the other lower capacity hard drives)


5) In two different threads (# 445 and # 485) I've read about an orderable "long fan" and, all this being new to me, I can't figure out how/if this pertains to the particular t42 I am interested in.


6) With regards to the weight difference between a t42-15" and, say, a t41-14", is that difference distributed evenly in the t42-15" ? It isn't, e.g., top-heavy, is it ?


7) I am trying to figure out whether to order it directly from IBM or whether to order it from a 3rd party (similar to a company, e.g., such as Insight.com). If I can find a cheaper price through a 3rd party, then is there any potential downside ?
(And I've read about ordering through Bill, but I would want to order via credit card and apparently he doesn't accept CC's)


8) With the Dell D800/M60 (similar to the 8600), you can remove the optical drive, place it an external bay and then connect this to a propietary usb port on the side of the unit.
With the T42, can a similar thing be done ? Say, for instance, that I removed the optical drive and, in its place, put in the diskette drive or Ultrabay battery. Could the optical drive then somehow be used (while the diskette drive or Ultrabay-battery was in the Ultrabay) ?


9) Where can I find the prices for the T42 2373-JXU, 2373-CWU, 2373-CXU, 2373-CYU ? (I tried doing a search at IBM's website and also emailing IBM about this and several other questions but received a reply saying simply that I ought to telephone and talk to a sales agent)


10) I've been reading through and considering the current discussions (here and at talknotebooks.com) about the response time of the 15"Flexview screen. It sounds like this is only a concern for and noticeable by some gamers and people who regularly view DVDs on their thinkpad ? I mean, it sounds like that's about the only aspect of using the thinkpad that's being affected ?


11) I've come across some posts commenting about an awkwardness with the High Capacity Li-Ion battery (vs the regular battery). I was wondering if someone could clarify what that is in regards to: weight ? sticks out too much ? etc.
Also, when purchasing the High Capacity battery, is it shipped *in addition to* the regular 6-cell battery ?


12) I am concerned about the reported problems with the T-series notebooks: specifically, that in some instances there is a lot of flex in the arrow keys, that the entire right side of the keyboard is raised, and (in one instance that I read) that at the back of the laptop (where the lcd meets the base) the lcd is bowed. How widespread are these problems ? I am trying to figure whether or not this is affecting the T42-15"Flexview model and whether or not these problems are affecting just a small percentage of the T-series owners.

Thank you in advance for your time, help, and comments
Take care,
Matt
Last edited by Matt_ on Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:00 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: ?'s about practicality aspects of T42 & T42 configur

#2 Post by G-Man » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:55 am

Holly c**p! This is the longest post I’ve ever seen.

I need to sleep now, but I start answering your questions with this one:

Prices (without discounts):

2373-JXU: http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products.nsf/ ... p/_2373JXU

2373-CWU: http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products.nsf/ ... p/_2373CWU

2373-CXU: http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products.nsf/ ... p/_2373CXU

2373-CYU http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products.nsf/ ... p/_2373CYU

Will countinue after sleeping.

Regards,
G-Man

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#3 Post by csv96 » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:19 am

1) I don't know much about the Fujitsu, but perhaps it has an IPS screen while the other two laptops don't.
2) The front ~1" of the T42p 15" keyboard is sloped. Don't know if that makes a difference for you. Unless you're playing video games or running 3D software, you won't notice a difference between the 32mb Radeon 9000 and the 64mb Radeon 9600. If you want to be future-proofed for Longhorn, you're out of luck. Even the top-of-the-line 128mb FireGL T2 will be outdated.
3) If you don't ever plan to burn a DVD, then the CD-RW/DVD combo drive is fine.
4) The Dothan 1.7 uses less power than the Banias 1.7. But there's probably no significant real world effect on battery life.
5) It's very easy to replace hard drives. Just a few screws. Both the 60gb 7200rpm and 80gb 5400rpm drives are excellent. It's personal preference whether you want a little bit faster drive or a little larger and quieter drive.
6) Weight is well distributed.
7) Email Bill. Or try the credit card discount links referenced in other threads.
8) Yes and no. If you buy the Thinkpad Dock and an Ultrabay Slim adapter, you can stick the optical drive in the dock. But if you're docked, there's no reason you would stick a battery in the Ultrabay. There is no floppy disk drive available for the Ultrabay Slim.
9) see G-Man's post above.
10) You won't notice it if you're just typing.
11) The 9-cell is heavier and sticks out the back about an extra inch. You usually buy it separately if your Thinkpad comes with the 6-cell.
12) Odds are in your favor that your Thinkpad T42 won't have this problem.
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#4 Post by benz » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:56 am

As far as #3, I think most people can get by with an external DVD burner (you can get a dual-format 8x external (USB2.0) for around $180 these days). You'd be spending quite a lot more for the burner from IBM, but it is nice to have an internal one. You have to ask yourself how often you will need to burn DVDs on the road, and if you would be able to get by with an external drive for that purpose. I am just getting a regular CDRW/DVD drive with mine, and I plan on buying an external DVD-/+RW drive sometime in the future.

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#5 Post by Conmee » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:11 am

csv96 wrote:2) The front ~1" of the T42p 15" keyboard is sloped. Don't know if that makes a difference for you. Unless you're playing video games or running 3D software, you won't notice a difference between the 32mb Radeon 9000 and the 64mb Radeon 9600. If you want to be future-proofed for Longhorn, you're out of luck. Even the top-of-the-line 128mb FireGL T2 will be outdated.
I completely agree with csv96's comments. If you aren't a gamer or use graphic intensive applications, you won't notice any difference between the Radeon 7500 v. Radeon 9000 v. Radeon 9600 v. FireGL T2 during web browsing, email, writing documents, PowerPoint, spreadsheets, or most 2D situations where graphics acceleration and additional memory don't play much/any role. But seeing as how the price and configs for T42 models with Radeon 9600 w/64MB are quite affordable, those models would be my recommendation... Radeon 9600 gives you support for the latest 3D features, has adequate video RAM, and is faster a good deal faster than the Radeon 7500 and 9000. I personally wouldn't consider a T Series with anything less than Radeon 9600 or FireGL T2.

Video cards are just one of those components, however, that maybe a year down the line, you actually find yourself in the situation where it would be 'nice' to have had the best video card, and you'll be out of luck. At least, that's how it always happens with me. lol :)

Daniel.
MacBook Pro 15" Retina Display / 2.6GHz Ci7 / 16GB DDR3/ 512GB SSD / Mac OS X 10.9.3

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#6 Post by benz » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:26 am

Even the top-of-the-line 128mb FireGL T2 will be outdated.
Sure the 128 T2 will be outdated, but will it be obsolete? I don't think so. The rumors of Longhorn requiring a DX9 compatible vid card would mean that only the 7500 is obsolete (as in, will not run windows). But I would think that the 9600 or the T2 could easily run Longhorn...am I correct?

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#7 Post by Conmee » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:38 am

Benz,

You are correct. To take advantage of all the new 3D effects the new Windows (Longhorn) GUI will incorporate, you'll need a DirectX9.0b or better video card, which means even the Mobility Radeon 9000 and FireGL 9000 in the T40/T40p and lower-end T41/T42's will not be able to run the new GUI. There will be an interface similar to the current one for older video cards, but based on Microsoft's past, they won't put alot of effort in supporting older technology, when they're dead set on moving the industry and their technology forward. :)

At least with a MR9600 or FireGL T2, you're already set for the next release of Windows.... in 2006... maybe.... lol

Daniel.

Mobility Radeon 7500 = DirectX7
Mobility Radeon 9000 = DirectX8
FireGL 9000 (T40p) = DirectX8
Mobility Radeon 9600 = DirectX9.0b
FireGL T2 = DirectX9.0b
MacBook Pro 15" Retina Display / 2.6GHz Ci7 / 16GB DDR3/ 512GB SSD / Mac OS X 10.9.3

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#8 Post by Mofongo » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:37 pm

Regarding #1: Fujitsu is the master of "Flexview" type screens. Their name for it is "Crystal View" and I am not sure if it uses IPS technology or something else (like MVA...which I think Fujitsu developed). In any case, theirs are pretty much the best screens out there...personally I like their screen better than the Flexview on my T42, but only by a little bit (although some people prefer the IBM screen to Fujitsu).

Most laptops made by non-US-based companies actually use Fujitsu screens. So you were pretty much looking at the best of the best in laptop screens.

Mofongo
T42p 2379-DYU: 1.8 GHz Dothan, 15" Flexview UXGA, Bluetooth, IBM a/b/g, 80GB 5400RPM
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#9 Post by Matt_ » Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:23 pm

Sorry I haven't had a chance before now to reply.
I appreciate all the help -- it's exactly the kind I needed.
Like I mentioned, since my computing needs will probably be about the same over the next few years, I'm trying to strike the right balance between future-proofing and buying what for what I (will) actually need.

The reason I had thought that a diskette drive could be used in the Ultrabay of the T42 was that in the customizing section, under "Ultrabay Options" is listed a "ThinkPad Removeable Diskette Drive +$59"; it didn't have "ultrabay2000" or "ultrabay plus" in the description, hence I thought perhaps it could be used in the T42 ultrabay.

After considering everything, I'm down to deciding between the 2379-DXU and 2373-JXU; about the only difference is a) the 7200-GB vs 5400-40GB hdd, b) intel b/g vs ibm b/g, and c) $2529 ($2402 if purchased w/ VISA) vs $2659.

1)The 40GB hdd would probably be just fine for me, but I can't figure out why the JXU is priced higher. If ordering by phone from IBM, how much can the salesrep. typically come down in price ?

2)For the special price of $29, Microsoft Office Basic would probably be all I need, but I don't know what Publisher and Powerpoint (in the Small Business package) are used for.

3)For the reason of price, I'm leaning toward the 2379-DXU. Now, this may sound like a silly worry, but with some reporting a perceptible heat in the palmrest from the 7200rpm drive, is there a possible adverse health effect from long-term use ?
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=700
42 degrees is internal HDD temp. There should be some gradient between HDD interior and palmrest, say 3-5 degrees. In any case 42 degrees is not hot it is warm. Though many human proteins get denatured by prolonged exposure to 42 degree the blood flow should be sufficient to keep you hand internal temperature below 37 degrees.
I have HDD temp at 40-42 and palmrest feels quite warm but tolerable (though I am used to carry bakers with boiling water in bare hand, lol..).
4) There are quite a few IBM utiltilies installed on the HDD by IBM. Down the road if/when I would need to replace/uprade the HDD, does IBM ship a CD with the laptop for easy installation of all these utilities ?

In regards to Mofongo's last reply, that was interesting to learn about the Fujitsu screen. Only thing about it that I noticed in the store (that I don't if it would be for me a distraction/annoyance over the long-term) was the reflection from the overhead lights. (But at least it seemed to have a much better vertical viewing angle than the Sony laptop I was looking at with XBRITE screen.)

Thanks again!

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#10 Post by csv96 » Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:39 pm

Email Bill (bill@thinkpads.com) for a price quote on the JXU. He might be able to bring the price down to below what you would pay for the DXU (and there's no tax if you buy from Bill).

The DXU is an Express unit which means it's already significantly discounted. The JXU is a standard T42 unit which means that there's some margin for negotiation on price. FYI, the DXU is on backorder everywhere. Expect to wait up to a month or even more.
I tend to leave my hand on the palmrest until I see fire and smoke. ;)
On my T41p which had the 60gb 7200rpm drive, palmrest heat was never an issue.
You can also order a free set of recovery CD's from IBM as long as you do it within the first 30 days.
Microsoft Publisher is great for putting together greeting cards, brochures, newsletters, etc., It's much more flexible than Word in terms of layout and where you want to put things on the page.
Microsoft Powerpoint is for making slide presentations on your computer. You create the presentation, then connect your computer to a LCD projector.
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#11 Post by G-Man » Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:48 pm

ThinkPad T4x series uses Ultrabay Slim, so Utrabay 2000 won't fit.

1.
Usually (with a little luck) you can get about 5% discount. Depends on the salesrep.

2.
Publisher: http://www.microsoft.com/office/publish ... rview.mspx

PowerPoint: http://www.microsoft.com/office/powerpo ... rview.mspx

3.
Since I don't have a 7200RPM HD, I never experienced the issue. My HD's temp is always between 37-40. I never felt it hot.

4.
You won't get a Recovery CD with your ThinkPad. There is a hidden recovery partition on the HD, so you can do a fresh revocery from the HD. Within 30 days after the purchase you can order the Recovery CD set from IBM free, after 30 days you have to pay about $30.

Regards,
G-Man

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#12 Post by Matt_ » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:23 am

Thank you again for your help -- much appreciated !
Also, the suggestions for what Publisher can be used for were great. I'll probably go ahead and select "Office Small Business" version.

Take care,
Matt

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#13 Post by trodriguez » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:56 am

Also, re the recovery disks, there is a new utility included that allows you to create a set of recovery disks. Of course, this will only work if you haven't blown away the service/recovery partitions already.

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