Superior Reball GPU Fix

Message

#1 Post by **schen** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:29 am

As some of you might have read on HarryC's write-up on the A31p rebuild, he used Superior Reball Reworking to repair the GPU issue on that machine. I've now sent them my T42/15" with SXGA+ screen to work their magic. It went out Sat. via USPS priority so they should receive it some time in the first half of the week.

This little project is now on the clock! I'll report back as progress or lack-there-of occurs on this.

#2 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:40 am

I am really hoping that Superior Reball works out for you (and me, too). I sent off six T4x machines last week to be repaired after speaking with them on the phone.

They feel that after the GPU is reballed it should be as good as new. I really hope that is true since these were high end T4x machines with only one issue - loose GPU's. I will post results back as well.

If their work is consistently good, they would be a great resource for forum members, since their pricing is appropriate for computers in the sub-$400 range.

#3 Post by **Johan** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:10 am

I just saw their eBay advertisement (which is new; they had another one previously, which they for some reason have taken down... and lost their feedback as well?!), and through the (although very limited, but still) feedback this - current - eBay add seems to indicate quite good success. In any case, the cost for this delicate service is unbelievable low in my opinion; think of all the very specialized equipment and the skills required for this kind of quite advanced microelectronic work! I can't believe how they can make money on this:

In their eBay advertisement [url=http://www.superiorreball.com/][color=blue][u]Superior Reball and Rework[/color][/u][/url] wrote:IBM ThinkPad Motherboard Logic board GPU Video repair

* This is a $60.00 flat rate repair service.

* We disassemble, repair and reassemble your IBM for this $60.00 flat rate. No additional charges!!!

* Free return shipping for our customer residing in the continental USA. We will ship to Canada and other countries for an additional $25.00 return shipping charge.

* No fix = No pay.

Good luck, and please keep us posted with the success!

Johan

virge · #4 Post by **virge** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:02 pm

A followup on my experience. I had a T4x GPU repaired by Superior Reball in August 2008. I had a good experience and they even replaced a missing key on my keyboard for no extra charge. It was unexpected and a nice surprise when I got it back. I still have that machine and the GPU problem has not returned.

#5 Post by **schen** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:11 pm

virge wrote:A followup on my experience. I had a T4x GPU repaired by Superior Reball in August 2008. I had a good experience and they even replaced a missing key on my keyboard for no extra charge. It was unexpected and a nice surprise when I got it back. I still have that machine and the GPU problem has not returned.

That sounds like a great endorsement! Hopefully, mine will be a similar success story as well. I have to say that the price is definitely right for the cost of the machine in question. That's really been my hesitation all along, is whether a repair is worth the price-point of machines that selling in the $200-$300 range on a regular basis. For purposes of the members of this Forum, these guys should allow a great number of these machines to get back into circulation.

I just hope that as the word gets out, that demand for their services don't drive the price up too much!

On a side note, I picked up a UltraBay Slim battery from one of those "salvage" outfits that populate eBay for about $13 after shipping. It was a bad ad with a picture of a T/R series extended battery, but still; $13! Anyway, it turned out to be new with 0 cycles on it!

Their eBay ID is LaptopAngels out of St. Louis and they seem to have lots of ThinkPad parts. This is the only thing I've bought from them, but I'd have to say that, it's a winner! And they shipped really fast.

#6 Post by **underclocker** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:15 pm

I have a preliminary status update. I sent Superior Reball six T41/T42 machines for repair. Prior to sending the machines, I was informed that any variety ATI GPU available in the T4x series could be repaired. However, they had come across some GPU's that had been glued down to the mobo, basically sealed with epoxy, and those could not be repaired because they could not remove the GPU without destroying it or the mobo. (The GPU's with red dots at the corners are repairable.)

I sent one ATI 9600, three ATI 9000, and two ATI 7500 boards. One of the ATI 7500 boards had the glued GPU and could not be repaired. I did notice the black epoxy just under the entire perimeter of the GPU. I was not charged for the diagnosis. Coincidentally, (or perhaps, because of this fact), this mobo was marked by IBM as a "used serviceable part". Perhaps they glued down the GPU's on boards they recycled hoping to prevent future failures?

Anyway, the other five boards were repaired. They had the boards for one week. So if you add shipping on both ends, it took about 10 days to turn around the repair.

I have only assembled one so far, the T42 with ATI 9600 GPU and it works perfectly. I can't make the failure or any video issue reappear. I will keep testing.

FYI, I use this utility to test the GPU --> http://freestone-group.com/video-card-s ... y-test.htm

The utility has helped me discover GPU's that have just started to exhibit the failure. This test grills the GPU (and CPU and fan, too!)

I'll post back as I make more progress with the assemblies.

#7 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:10 am

...I've put three of five machines back together so far (one ATI 9600, one ATI 9000, one ATI 7500) and all test out perfectly...

sjthinkpader · #8 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:18 am

underclocker wrote:... had been glued down to the mobo, basically sealed with epoxy, and those could not be repaired because they could not remove the GPU without destroying it or the mobo. (The GPU's with red dots at the corners are repairable.)
....

Are you sure they remove the GPU instead of just reflow by hot air? The solder ball attachment machine cost like $1M.

lophiomys · #9 Post by **lophiomys** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:23 am

If it might help you, on their web site they are showing some
machines, they probably uses for the reballing:
http://www.superiorreball.com/

#10 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:29 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:Are you sure they remove the GPU instead of just reflow by hot air? The solder ball attachment machine cost like $1M.

Well, you can review their site, linked above, but I can tell you, 1) I can see shiny new balls for the perimeter row of balls for the GPU, 2) the red epoxy dots are now missing from the GPU's that had them, which would indicate the GPU was removed, reballed and replaced, 3) a small amount of some residue is on the mobo underside, opposite the GPU, something like Vaseline. Additionally, they include an X-Ray print out of the work, if you request it.

Seems pretty legit to me. I'm typing this from a reballed T42!

sjthinkpader · #11 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:30 pm

The two machines they showed, FSX-080 is an inspection machine and the RD-500 is a reflow machine.

http://www.focalspot.com/rd500.htm

Here are some solder ball attachment machines.

http://www.chipscalereview.com/archives ... /f1_01.php

In any case, remove a BGA package, remove balls from MB, BGA, clean up, attach balls to package, then reflow to MB will not be $60 job.

Without a ball attachment machine, they may be able to place 20-30 balls on a small package by hand. But it will be expensive to place 200 balls on a GPU by hand. If they only have a reflow machine, more accurate will be reflow service than reball service.

Here is a paper on reballing:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_h ... ntent;col1

I am not saying they don't do good work. I am just questioning the term "reball".

#12 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:55 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:In any case, remove a BGA package, remove balls from MB, BGA, clean up, attach balls to package, then reflow to MB will not be $60 job.

I agree with you that the price is excellent. $60 also gets you complete dissassembly and reassembly plus return shipping. If you just send the bare mobo, the price is even lower!

EDIT: I just noticed the eBay ad now lists the service at $75 - maybe it is labor intensive.

But I have to say, in their auction and on the phone, they state that the procedure is listed as above. I am not sure I understand what the difference is between the machine they use or other machines, but don't the balls have to be "reflowed" in some way?

They also do this for older iBooks with the same issue for a similar price. I assume they realized that people won't spend too much more to repair a three to six year old computer that is worth as little as $200. I think they found the right price point and if it works, then great. The people at Superior Reball are very friendly, so if someone that knows how to ask the correct questions would like to find out more details about the procedure and report back, please call or email them.

I am planning on selling these machines and would like to be as accurate as I can with the marketplace ad. I suppose I could link to this thread, but more info on the procedure and expected durability of the repair would be great.

alsuch · #13 Post by **alsuch** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:04 pm

I just got my T42P back from Superior. Dale has been a great guy to work with. My bottom case cover was cracked so I sent a new one along and they replaced it for me while the unit was apart. The machine works great again, no problems when moving or flexing it. Just one problem I do have now that I didn't prior to the reball, when I plug into an external monitor the screen has a dark pink hue to it which is not present on the laptop flexview monitor. I've tried several external monitors and they're all dark pink. Anybody out there have any experience with this or thoughts on how to correct it? Unit is a 2373-Q1U. Thanks.

sjthinkpader · #14 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:22 pm

Naming aside, if their service is good then that's what counts.

But I would not use the term reballing in the context of the GPU as it is a very difficult task requiring special equipment and skills for these large BGAs. I think the GPU has 500+ balls. Even with a ball attachment machine, getting a lage BGA off and back on without damaging other surrounding BGAs is very risky. A large factory such as Flextronics, Honghai, Foxconn may have this capability. They build these MBs in the first place.

Superior may do reballing with a few missing balls on a BGA or whatever. But doing reballing on a 500 balls BGA on a populated MB for $60 is unbelievable. Certainly their website didn't show a ball attachment machine. In contrast, they have a pretty good reflow machine so they should have capability to do that. BTW, that curve on the RD-500 reflow machine monitor is a reflow temperature profile.

poshgeordie · #15 Post by **poshgeordie** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:48 pm

sjthinkpader wrote: Without a ball attachment machine, they may be able to place 20-30 balls on a small package by hand. But it will be expensive to place 200 balls on a GPU by hand. I am just questioning the term "reball".

There are actually something like 698 pins (got bored with watching repeats of Friends and decided to count them one night!!), and they are V small bore
Talking to companies who could supply ball templates for the chip they don't recommend trying to reball because of the ball size and density.
Not to say that it can't be done (James says he does it hence his prices) but it's extremely skilled work on top of the skill needed to reflow.
I don't do it and to be honest in recent times I've only had a single problem on an iBook where the user had previously applied so much pressure on the chip that some of the balls became completely loose or smashed, and 'spilled out' during the reflow.
The other (expensive) solution where a reball is needed is to buy a new chip for around £35 and flow that onto the motherboard. Problem is are these 'new' chips actually original stock, or Asian reverse engineered ones?

My Three pennies worth..

#16 Post by **schen** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:12 pm

Just a "pre"-update: the T42 in question is on it's way back and is supposed to be working now. So when I get it all put back together, I'll report back. Keep your fingers crossed!

sjthinkpader · #17 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:38 pm

poshgeordie wrote:...
There are actually something like 698 pins (got bored with watching repeats of Friends and decided to count them one night.....

Yes, almost thirty balls on each side, 700 sounds about right.

I watched a ball attachment machine work once. The holes on the BGA substrate where the balls sit were actually recessed. Solder paste was printed onto the upside down BGAs. Balls are then pushed across stencil with holes. After reflow attachment, each BGA is then singulated (cut). These large GPU BGAs must be a one up process. There was a machine looking for missing balls.

Reballing process is much more difficult since there are other components on the MB already.

#18 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:55 pm

FYI, I found another business that offers reflows (not reball, although the description is confusing), at a similar cost --> http://www.firstphasetech.com/ibook-repair-g3-g4.html

#19 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:27 pm

Well, that brings up a good point. Is Superior Reball really reballing or simply reflowing?

sjthinkpader · #20 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:41 am

alsuch wrote:...Just one problem I do have now that I didn't prior to the reball, when I plug into an external monitor the screen has a dark pink hue to it which is not present on the laptop flexview monitor. I've tried several external monitors and they're all dark pink. Anybody out there have any experience with this or thoughts on how to correct it? Unit is a 2373-Q1U. Thanks.

My T60 had this same problem with the VGA port. LCD and DVI port worked fine. The MB was recently placed due to an unrelated issue and this problem was fixed also.

They normally make a heat shield to protect the surrounding components during reflow. But these rework processes don't have 100% yield. I have a board came back with the GPU working but an USB port over current problem. Got a refund on the repair but the board is scrapped.

poshgeordie · #21 Post by **poshgeordie** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:49 am

sjthinkpader wrote:They normally make a heat shield to protect the surrounding components during reflow. But these rework processes don't have 100% yield. I have a board came back with the GPU working but an USB port over current problem. Got a refund on the repair but the board is scrapped.

If you use the hot gas method then I would say a shield is necessary to stop the relatively undirected heat from affecting components outside of the area you're wanting to reflow.

Checking the specs of the reflow equipment Superior uses:

3-Independent High Performance Heaters:
• Provides superior lead free rework capabilities
• Localized Hot Gas Top and Bottom Heaters
• Infrared Area Heater
• Each heater deliver up to 650°C | 1202°F

Looks like top heat is via hot gas rather than infrared.

Whilst I 've never tried hot gas, I deliberately didn't go for such a machine because I realised I'd need to place shields around the component, whereas because infrared simply radiates in a 'focused' beam it's much 'kinder' and doesn't blow the beam like hot gas does.
(Sorry terrible sentence but hope you see what I mean)

#22 Post by **underclocker** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:18 pm

FYI, I emailed Dale at Superior Reball and asked the following;

I'm going to start selling the completed machines and was wondering how I should phrase the work that was done to them. Was it a complete reball and reflow? Or do you just look for bad connections and fix those? If you can recommend a way to phrase it, that would be great.

Dale emailed right back;

We did a complete remove, reball and replacement of the existing GPU on the logic board. The entire GPU has new solder balls on it therefore the solder joints/connections from the GPU to the solder pads on the logic board are new. Hope this helps you.

This does sound like what was advertised and what I thought I was purchasing.

craigmontHunter · #23 Post by **craigmontHunter** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:18 am

Hello everyone, I have for a long time used these forums as a resurce, and decided to join up now.

I have a thinkpad t41 that was exhibiting the graphics chip failure, and I reflowed it twice with a heatgun. the third time, something happened, the wind from the heatgun or something and the chip slid back, and now I can see a strip of solder around the side. I e-mailed Superior Reball and asked them if they could fix it, and they e-mailed right back that yes, they can fix it, because they remove and clean the chip, so the fact that the balls are all crushed does not matter. it seems like they are doing a full re-ball instead of just a re-flow. I need to fix my thinkpad becaue I need it for high school since I can't read my writing, and neither can my teachers, and this is my third laptop in 2 years (not normally because of something I did).

sjthinkpader · #24 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:59 am

Welcome to the forum.

In that case, they do what they say they do. It would be nice that they show what they have on the website.

Kenny147 · #25 Post by **Kenny147** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:09 pm

Well, I've had my 15" T42 sitting around collecting dust for about 6 months now while I worked out whether or not I was going to part it out or bite the bullet and buy a new motherboard. Seeing as I'd just had a brand new UXGA 15" screen fitted about a week before it died aswell as a new DVD-RW drive, I was tending toward the new MB option but the cheapest replacement I found was a round $400.

Then I found this thread and thought what the hell. $60 bucks to replace the GPU compared to a new MB or even a new Thinkpad is a no brainer. Superior Reball had my T42 for about 4 days and I got it back a day after they they said they'd fixed it.

I'm now typing ths post on the fixed Thinkpad with a beta version of Win 7 installed. So far everything works as it did before the GPU decided to come unstuck.

I'd have paid $150 to get this fixed, considering how much the alternatives were going to cost me. I really can't recommend them highly enough.

#26 Post by **schen** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:01 am

Well it looks good so far. I'm jumping the gun a little in that it's not completely finished, but it's sitting on the table next to me working through the T42 Recovery Disks set as I type this on my regular T42p/14". Other than the screws on the bottom showing signs that someone was in a bit of a hurry during dis/reassembly, it all looks good. If everything holds to form, I'll have to say that I'm more than please with the price and just about as impressed with the speed of the work as well.

tgrevers · #27 Post by **tgrevers** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:43 pm

Dale has done several machines for me, and each one has worked great. On the last 2, the machines too forever to respond to the Access IBM button, but they did start up, and now they both work completely normally.

-Ted

fje · #28 Post by **fje** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:45 pm

Hi,

I mailed Superior Reball from eBay a couple of weeks ago and I got a very fast answer telling me that they were able to fix the GPU of my T42 problem.

As I couldn't be without my laptop for a while, I told them I would contact them a bit later, and again their answer was fast.

In the last days of last week I started the work of prepare the things to send the laptop to them and I asked some questions in the post office that made me to put some doubts (customs, etc.) to Dale at Superior Reball.

No answer....

I used the eBay way, the "replay to" the mail I got from them, and the to mails the have at the web site............ no answer....

This scares somehow to me... Do you know if there is any problem with them?

Regards.

shakefoo · #29 Post by **shakefoo** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:31 am

wish i had a better exp with dale at superior reball. he is a nice guy i'll give ya that, but it's tough to get him on the phone or answer emails. then again, i guess with me he has reason.

dale's had my t41 laptop now three months - that's right three months. what began as a gpu fix has turned into a nightmare. since the reball the pc no longer boots up w/o an ibm security startup password which no one knows.

dale's been trying to crack that code now for three months and it's like each time i do manage to get him on the phone it's "yeah, i just needed some parts, i have the solution now and i'll get to it today and call ya back." and it's the same song and dance just about every freakin week.

i'm starting to wonder if i'll ever see that laptop again...

poshgeordie · #30 Post by **poshgeordie** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:48 am

PM sent

Superior Reball GPU Fix

Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Re: Superior Reball GPU Fix

Who is online