Thinkpad T41 and 60gb hitachi 7200 rpm hard drive

[imcobarn]

Hi, this is my first post here on the forums, I've been reading a lot of your topics here but never had a need to register and now I do and hope I can get help.

I have T41 2374-7FU (1.6 Ghz, 2Gb Ram, and 40Gb 5400rpm Hitachi drive) and about a month ago I decided to upgrade hard drive as I have not much room left between media files, ebooks and backups for my websites and all other stuff I have on my laptop. I researched on internet and Ibm/Lenovo support site and sure enough t41 should take 7200rpm drive. So I bought Hitachi 60gb 7200 rpm drive (HTS726060M9ATOO).

First I tried cloning my 40gb drive with Northon Ghost but that did not work so I repartitioned it with Partition Magic and tried clean windows install but setup says "no drive". When I connect it via USB enclosure, Windows XP sees it and I can use it but not in BIOS.

I went and installed latest BIOS (from IBM website) and firmware hoping that will solve the problem but no luck. Today I started laptop with HD Clone boot cd and it recognized the drive but still in BIOS setup it doesn't exist.

So I'm kinda lost here, either t41 can't take 7200rpm (even though IBM and Hitachi website states they are compatible) or something is wrong with my TP.

Please help.
Thanks.

[schen]

First I tried cloning my 40gb drive with Northon Ghost but that did not work so I repartitioned it with Partition Magic and tried clean windows install but setup says "no drive". When I connect it via USB enclosure, Windows XP sees it and I can use it but not in BIOS.

I went and installed latest BIOS (from IBM website) and firmware hoping that will solve the problem but no luck. Today I started laptop with HD Clone boot cd and it recognized the drive but still in BIOS setup it doesn't exist.

So I'm kinda lost here, either t41 can't take 7200rpm (even though IBM and Hitachi website states they are compatible) or something is wrong with my TP.

Welcome to the ThinkPads Forum. Although I didn't see where you've tried it, but I'm going to assume that you've tried putting the old drive back in and it worked fine? That's usually the starting point...making certain that the original system still works. You do have the correct drive as far as I can tell (I looked it up after replacing the two capitol "O"s with zeros "0") and it should up as an ATA-6 60Gb/7200rpm drive. So far so good. If that drive hooked up in an external drive is recognized, then the drive itself is also probably OK as well. Therefore, it looks like all the parts involved in your upgrade are working normal.

Other than the fact that, Ghost simply might not have worked for you; there's a good chance that the drive simply isn't seated all the way into the HDD bay and all the pins making adequate contact. You might try using a little wiggle persuasion to try and get it to seat correctly. I've had this problem happen to me a number of times over the years. You might also want to check that you are trying to insert it "upside-down" which is how the T4x series takes it's HDDs.

Good luck and hope it's an easy fix.

[imcobarn]

Thanks,
Yes the old drive is still working when I put it back in. It just doesn't make sense because I'm using the caddy for the new drive and I can feel being seated in as I push the drive in. I will try to maybe insert it without a caddy.
If not I guess I'll sell it on eBay and buy 5400rpm, I don't know what else!

[Harryc]

With the new drive in the USB enclosure, run activekilldisk on it. This is assuming that the data that exists on it is useless. This is just a shot in the dark, but it will eliminate any issues with an MBR that perhaps your T41 does not like.
http://www.killdisk.com

[imcobarn]

With the new drive in the USB enclosure, run activekilldisk on it. This is assuming that the data that exists on it is useless. This is just a shot in the dark, but it will eliminate any issues with an MBR that perhaps your T41 does not like.
http://www.killdisk.com

Thanks I will try that, I can run killdisk only through windows as my bios don't see the drive, would that be O.K.?
Also late last night I swapped the drives (my good 40gb 5400rpm connected via USB and new 60gb 7200rpm in the bay) and run the HD Clone (as I said earlier it is the only program that sees the new drive outside the windows) but it did not see the drive this time. I can hear the drive spinning in the bay so it gets power.

So here is the rundown:
1. Bios don't see the drive period (via USB or Bay)
2. Windows sees it (via USB only, I don't have ultrabay HD adapter)
3. HD Clone sees it only via USB

What a mess over what I thought (and usually is) a simple HD upgrade.
I will report activekilldisk findings.
Thanks.

[sktn77a]

If you go to windows disk management (hardware management) while it's in the USB enclosure and FDISK and partition it, then put it back into the main drive bay, does the BIOS see it? You should have no problem using this drive in the T41.

[imcobarn]

Ok here is the update.
ActiveKilldisk did format and erase the drive. With it still connected via USB I insert Windows Installation disk and it saw the drive (with no partition) but it could not install OS because it was on USB. So I again inserted it into the drive bay but once again no drive present.

Previously I downloaded Hitachi Tools program but it could not see it because it does not support operation via usb. Is there a program that would maybe restore the drive to manufacturer's settings?

Is my drive bay faulty? it recognizes 5400rpm drives. I don't know what else to do. Please help!!!!

[imcobarn]

If you go to windows disk management (hardware management) while it's in the USB enclosure and FDISK and partition it, then put it back into the main drive bay, does the BIOS see it? You should have no problem using this drive in the T41.

i did that previously, format it through windows itself. My T41 doesn't have floppy otherwise I would try to format in DOS.

Actually I could try again, do you mean rightclick on drive in My Computer and use tools>format ?

[imcobarn]

If you go to windows disk management (hardware management) while it's in the USB enclosure and FDISK and partition it, then put it back into the main drive bay, does the BIOS see it? You should have no problem using this drive in the T41.

Ok, I did that and again nothing. Bios don't see it. I noticed that when I start the laptop with this drive in the bay, the HD led stays on all the time, it doesn't flicker like with other drive showing activity.
Could be something in the bios setup I should look for?

I'm about to give up on this, it just doesn't make sense. Anyone has any more ideas, suggestions?

[sjthinkpader]

You have caddy installed on the new HDD? Was it inserted in the computer with the caddy facing up?

[imcobarn]

You have caddy installed on the new HDD? Was it inserted in the computer with the caddy facing up?

Yes it is the only way it will go in.

[sktn77a]

Actually I could try again, do you mean rightclick on drive in My Computer and use tools>format ?

Start>Control Panel>Administrative tools>computer management>Storage>disk management

The drive should show up as a USB drive. You have more options here than in windows explorer (my computer).

[imcobarn]

Start>Control Panel>Administrative tools>computer management>Storage>disk management

The drive should show up as a USB drive. You have more options here than in windows explorer (my computer).

I did that and again nothing. Bios don't see it. I noticed that when I start the laptop with this drive in the bay, the HD led stays on all the time, it doesn't flicker like with other drive showing activity.
Could be something in the bios setup I should look for?

[BillMorrow]

ever since ghost was acquired by symantec it has gone downhill..
acronis true image will clone the drive no problem..

the drive will work fine in your T41..
you might check on the firmware rev. level on the hitachi drive as back when those were new there was a firmware version that would crash those drives in the R50p (really a T41p with the 15 inch UXGA display) but the details escape me now..
if your drive is made after 2005 or 2006 it should be just fine in that regard..

remember, ghose sux and acronis is golden..

[imcobarn]

ever since ghost was acquired by symantec it has gone downhill..
acronis true image will clone the drive no problem..

the drive will work fine in your T41..
you might check on the firmware rev. level on the hitachi drive as back when those were new there was a firmware version that would crash those drives in the R50p (really a T41p with the 15 inch UXGA display) but the details escape me now..
if your drive is made after 2005 or 2006 it should be just fine in that regard..

remember, ghose sux and acronis is golden..

Thanks for the reply.
Actually the date on the drive is Nov. 03 so that could be the problem. I did download Hitachi Tools programs but it doesn't support drives connected via USB and drive doesn't show in drive bay. I don't know how else I could ran this utility on the drive.
I also downloaded a hard drive firmware update from IBM for my T41 thinking that might help. I did updated bios as well.

i did not see firmware download on hitachi website though, does anyone know if there is alternate firmware website? Again I'm not sure how would I update it since bios don't see it.

[noeffort]

typing on my t41 now. I imaged my 5400 hard drive to a Hitachi HTS721060G9AT00 7200 about a year ago. Just had a problem with my 5400 and installed my imaged 7200 and was up and running in 5 minutes.
Download Acronis True image trial to see if it works. There is a limitation on the size of the partitions with the trial, but it works.
Go to Newegg.com and buy one of the multiple drive adapters that plugs into your usb drive. Plug your 7200 into it and run true image and you should be good.
I'm using true image v10.

I will be reimaging my 7200 to the 5400 later today. Always a good thing to spend a little money to save a lot $$$ & aggravation later.

I image all my laptops and desktops.
Good Luck.
The 7200 is noticeably faster.

[imcobarn]

typing on my t41 now. I imaged my 5400 hard drive to a Hitachi HTS721060G9AT00 7200 about a year ago. Just had a problem with my 5400 and installed my imaged 7200 and was up and running in 5 minutes.
Download Acronis True image trial to see if it works. There is a limitation on the size of the partitions with the trial, but it works.
Go to Newegg.com and buy one of the multiple drive adapters that plugs into your usb drive. Plug your 7200 into it and run true image and you should be good.
I'm using true image v10.

I will be reimaging my 7200 to the 5400 later today. Always a good thing to spend a little money to save a lot $$$ & aggravation later.

I image all my laptops and desktops.
Good Luck.
The 7200 is noticeably faster.

Thanks for the info.
I will try that. I will get Acronis True Image 11 Build 8053 Home from a friend, would that work? You said you used v10.
Also Can I run acronis in windows and image the drive that is runnung the widows to the 7200 connected via USB or do I have to run Acronis on different system and have two drives (to be imaged) connected via USB?
Thanks.

[sjthinkpader]

This drive is pretty old. Was it a new old stock in a sealed bag?

If it is not, it could have some damage on it.

Try leaving a blank space before the primary partition, about 1GB in size. Basic premise is to write the FAT away from where it normally resides, the area with potential damage. This can be done in Acronis True Image or Apricorm EZ Gig using manual configuration.

7K drives are fast but today's new 5K drives are pretty fast too. A new WD 5K 160GB is only about $60.

Here is a drive performance comparison:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71881

You can run True Image or EZ Gig in Windows if you are not cloning the drive with current OS as all files must be closed on the drive being cloned. I do this on my A31/A31p with two Ultrabay drive trays. This method doesn't work for T43/R52 as the new drive must be in the HDD slot during cloning.

This will work also if you are cloning with an Ultrabay tray and an USB adapter. But it will be a lot slower than drive tray plus HDD slot method.

[Neil]

Just a thought that may not help at all, but... even though these drives are almost always the only drive in a laptop, they do have jumpers to set divice0/device1/cable sel. I've never seen one with a jumper in place (except when I use an adapter to put a 2.5" drive in my desktop), but if one was in place, wouldn't that cause the BIOS to be blinded, where a USB enclosure would still work?

[sjthinkpader]

Different drive manufacturer specify Master differently. Most Master setting is no jumper including Hitachi.

A Transcend SSD I have requires one jumper for Master. This is usually not a good design as any intermittence in the jumper will cause a failure.

The configuration is usually on the drive label.

[imcobarn]

I just finished cloning with True Image 11 Home and nothing. At boot I get error message (inteliboot) 'Media test failure - check cables" and bios still does not see the drive in the bay. I don't know what else to try.

[imcobarn]

This drive is pretty old. Was it a new old stock in a sealed bag?

If it is not, it could have some damage on it.

Try leaving a blank space before the primary partition, about 1GB in size. Basic premise is to write the FAT away from where it normally resides, the area with potential damage. This can be done in Acronis True Image or Apricorm EZ Gig using manual configuration.

7K drives are fast but today's new 5K drives are pretty fast too. A new WD 5K 160GB is only about $60.

Here is a drive performance comparison:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71881

You can run True Image or EZ Gig in Windows if you are not cloning the drive with current OS as all files must be closed on the drive being cloned. I do this on my A31/A31p with two Ultrabay drive trays. This method doesn't work for T43/R52 as the new drive must be in the HDD slot during cloning.

This will work also if you are cloning with an Ultrabay tray and an USB adapter. But it will be a lot slower than drive tray plus HDD slot method.

This is used drive from ebay but it works in USB enclosure so I don't know about damage. I'll try again with leaving blank space before primary partition.
Thanks.

[imcobarn]

Just a thought that may not help at all, but... even though these drives are almost always the only drive in a laptop, they do have jumpers to set divice0/device1/cable sel. I've never seen one with a jumper in place (except when I use an adapter to put a 2.5" drive in my desktop), but if one was in place, wouldn't that cause the BIOS to be blinded, where a USB enclosure would still work?

Yes there is jumper config on the drive which is DEVICE0=No jumper and if I try to put jumper on it I'm not sure how would that fit inside the laptop bay-connection.

[imcobarn]

O.K. guys I did finally got it to work. I read this thread (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=26110) about disabling IBM Pre-Desktop Area in bios and it worked. Also as suggested in there I did turn my thinkpad sideways and slightly tilted towards me when inserting the drive to make sure all pins align correctly.

Once I got the drive to work I changed Pre-Desktop Area back to "Normal" in bios.

So you label this thread as "RESOLVED".

Thanks to all that got involved and gave input and advice, now I have what I started few months back, a T41 Pentium Centrino 1600 Mhz with 60GB HD and 2GB RAM. I don't think I will be upgrading the CPU to 1800 or 2000 Mhz as I wanted but for now I'm happy with my 7200 RPM upgrade.

Thank You.