14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

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dr_st
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14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#1 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:17 pm

One who follows my posts on the forum might be familiar with my fascination with Lenovo's Napa/ICH7 Thinkpads (T60/Z61 series) and deep dislike of the Santa Rosa / ICH8 models (T61/R61), especially in terms of exterior design.

In the following I assembled a bunch of pictures comparing the following three laptops: T60 14.1" standard, Z61t 14.1" wide and T61 14.1" wide. The goal is to compare the exterior: dimensions, looks and ports.

Unfortunately, these were taken with an old and bad camera. So the pictures are small and of sub-par quality. They should still provide enough detail for comparison. If anyone is interested, I may be able to retake some specific pics with a better camera.

Full-size pics can be accessed by clicking on the images

Starting from side-by-side comparisons of the laptops with their lid open, examining the LCD and keyboard areas:

T60 vs. Z61t on the left, T60 vs. T61 on the right:
Image Image
Clearly, the basic design theme is the same on both Ts, while on the Z it's slightly different: sharp versus rounded screen corners, front lip that goes straight down versus diagonally inward as on the Z (some of the pictures below show it more clearly).
The LCD bezel, however,is more similar between the T60 and the Z61, with some nice curves. The T61 bezel curves on top (to match the front lip), but is completely flat on the left/right sides.

T61 (left) vs. Z61t (right):
Image
This one is the "killer" pic. Both laptops have the same physical screen size, but the T61 has so much more wasted space in the bezel, that its vertical size / depth are about 1cm (0.4" larger).
I find that the Z61t looks much nicer with its smooth edges and slim symmetric bezel. Also the left hinge on the T61 seems unnecessarily thick.
It also seems as if there is more space on the sides of the T61 keyboard, but that is mostly an optical illusion due to the narrower speaker grille and curve on the Z61t - the width of the laptops only differs by a couple mm (0.1").

From tall to short: T60, T61, Z61t
Image

The palmrest and the Thinkpad logos (T61-->T60-->Z61t):
Image Image Image
The T61, despite being a later model still sports the classic "IBM Thinkpad" logo. I think this machine was one of the last batches ever with this logo.
The T60 shows the "Thinkpad T-series" logo which replaced the old one, but still share the same size and shape, making the two interchangeable.
The Z61t has a different logo as well, saying "Thinkpad Z61". Interestingly, it does not say "Z-series". This indicates that transition to the new logos began after the Z60 series were already phased out. Only some of the very late Z61t/m/e/p series sported this logo (the machine in the picture was manufactured in September 2007).

Keyboards up front (T60-->T61-->Z61t):
Image Image Image
The keyboard is exactly the same between the three models.
Notice that while the T60/Z61t have genuine Hebrew keyboards, the one on the T61 is originally English-only US and Hebrew has been engraved.
The key layout is exactly the same, but the Hebrew keyboard has slightly different markings on some keys (e.g. Shift/Enter/Backspace).
The T61 and Z61t have their speakers on the side of the keyboard, while the T60 speakers are under the notebook's front lip, since there is no space on the sides of the keyboard to position them. On the other hand, there is lots of space above it, and I've known some manufacturers to position speakers above the keyboard. There are advantages and disadvantages to both top and bottom-mounted speakers, which have been thoroughly discussed in various forum threads.
Notice how the Z61t keyboard sits closer to the hinges, and the gap between the touchpad and the trackpoint buttons is smaller compared to the T61. This is due to the overall smaller depth of the Z61t.

Laptop stacks (no comparison is whole without them): :P

Front:
Image
All: WiFi switch, latch (note the changes in latch placement and form between the T60/Z61 and the later T61).
T60: IR
T61/Z61t: Audio jacks (the 14.1" wide seemed too cramped to stick them on the side)
T61: Firewire
Z61t: Card reader
Notice how the Z61t has nothing on the left side, and the others have nothing on the right. This is due to the placement of the hard drive, which makes it impossible to have any ports in the corresponding areas.

Back:
Image
All: Fan exhaust, power jack, battery. Note that due to the slanted design of the Z61t rear, the power jack area is slightly recessed. Potentially a bit awkward when reaching for it blindly.
Z61t: S-Video; Only one of the three to have this port. Seems like Lenovo considered S-Video not important on the "strictly-business" T-series, but left it on the Z-series which was partly "consumer-oriented". I think this "orientation" partly contributed to people unjustly believing the Z series to be somehow inferior to the T series.
T61: Kensignton lock slot.

Right:
Image
All: optical drive
T60/Z61t: Kensignon lock slot
T60/T61: Hard drive
Z61t: PCMCIA/Firewire
All: USB ports.
The placement of the USB ports is different on all machines. The T60 has two horizontal USB ports to the right of the optical drive, whereas the T61/Z61t, being widescreen, have much less space there, only sufficing for one vertical USB port. The Z61t has two additional horizontal USB ports under the PCMCIA slot (this space is occupied by the hard drive on the T60/T61).

Left:
Image
All: Fan Exhaust, VGA, LAN/Modem
Z61t: Hard drive
T60/T61: PCMCIA/USB (T61 has one extra here)
T60: Audio jacks, Expresscard
T61: Card reader (on some models this is replaced with an Expresscard/Smart Card slot).
Notice how the top of the LCD lid of the Z61t seems separate from the rest of the assembly (unlike the T-series where the lid is one piece). This is because the Z61t comes with two different lid options: CFRP (black) and titanium (silver).

Discussion on USB ports:
All 3 machines have 3 USB ports, but the locations are very different, and this might affect usability.
First, the fact that the Z61t has all ports on one side (right) is far from ideal. More over, the two ports under the PCMCIA slot are very close and if a wide USB device is inserted into one of them, the other one is blocked. Even most USB keys are wide enough to block the adjacent port. Therefore, for many common scenarios, the Z61t has de-facto only 2 USB ports.
The T61 suffers from a different problem: all 3 of its USB ports are vertical. It means that some very wide USB devices (card readers for instance, or strangely shaped USB keys) will not go in, unless the laptop is raised or positioned on the edge of the table. However, most USB devices are not that wide, so there should be no problem.
The T60's horizontal USB ports are stacked together, one on top of the other. This will not create problems with wide devices (although something very wide can block the CD tray), but might become problematic with thick USB devices, such as wireless/cellular modem dongles.
Experience shows that USB devices are more often wide than thick, so all in all, I deem the USB port placement of the T60 as the best of the three, followed by the T61, and the Z61t.

Discussion on PCMCIA/ExpressCard slots:
The good thing is that all three notebooks have PCMCIA available on all models. Since there are still far more PC cards than Express Cards out there, this seems a right decision by Lenovo.
In addition to PCMCIA, the T60 has Expresscard on all models, whereas the Z61t has the card reader. Of these two, I prefer having the Expresscard, since card reader functionality can easily be added via USB, whereas nothing can replace Expresscard except cumbersome PCMCIA adapters, which don't always work and have performance bottlenecks (Expresscard uses faster bus). So if you need Expresscard, the Z61t is not for you.
The T61 offers the highest flexibility, since you can choose whether to have an Expresscard slot, a Smartcard slot or a card reader.
Considering all the above, I rank the card slot selection to be the best on the T61, followed by the T60 and the Z61t.

Thickness comparison (sorry about the very blurry pictures):

Left: T61-->T60. Right: Z61t-->T60
Image Image
The T60 is actually the thinner of the three. The Z61t and the T61 are roughly the same thickness. The extra thickness is probably to accommodate the two lid options on the Z61t, and the LCD rollcage on the T61.

General comments on weight and battery life:
This is not evident from the pictures, but is evident from the Ltwbook or from daily usage of the laptops.
The biggest advantage of the Z61t over the T60/T61 is the weight. When considering the weight with the standard battery, it is noticeably lighter than the other two. However, one must not forget that the T60's standard battery is 6-cell, providing better battery life than the 4-cell in the Z61t.
The T61 seems to lag behind in battery/weight ratio, since with the 4-cell it weighs about as much as the T60 with the 6-cell, and more than the Z61t with the 4-cell.
However, with the addition of the 9-cell option for the 14.1" wide T61, it can once again compete with the 14.1" 4:3/15"/15.4" counterparts in battery life. The Z61t is forever stuck with the 7-cell as the maximum, and the added weight of the latter erases the advantage of the Z61t compared to the T60 configured with 6-cell.

This concludes this show. :D
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#2 Post by Marin85 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:36 pm

Thanks for the great show! :) Very nice comparison! I enjoyed reading it! :Nice:
IBM Lenovo Z61p | 15.4'' WUXGA | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 2.16GHz | 4 GB Kingston HyperX | Hitachi 7K500 500 GB + WD 1TB (USB) | ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 | ThinkPad Atheros a/b/g | Analog Devices AD1981HD | Win 7 x86 + ArchLinux 2009.08 x64 (number crunching)

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#3 Post by underclocker » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:21 pm

Nice thorough write up, thank you! I had been meaning to do the same since I currently have all three machines (plus I had an R61 14" widescreen, too!)

I have to agree with everything. The T61 just doesn't make that much sense, it's just too big. The Z61t is the best format for a 14" widescreen that Lenovo has made to date. But in the end, the T60 (T4x) is a better general format (if you didn't say that, I do).
T510, i7-620m, NVidia, HD+, 8GB, 180GB Intel Pro 1500 SSD, Webcam, BT, FPR Home
T400s, C2D SP9400, Intel 4500MHD, WXGA+, 8GB, 160GB Intel X18-M G2 SSD, Webcam, BT, FPR Travel
Edge 14 Core i5 | Edge 15 Core i3 | Edge 15 Athlon II X2| Edge 15 Phenom II X4

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#4 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:31 pm

underclocker wrote:The Z61t is the best format for a 14" widescreen that Lenovo has made to date. But in the end, the T60 (T4x) is a better general format (if you didn't say that, I do).
This is my opinion exactly. I didn't want to say it because I thought it might be too biased (after all, some do prefer widescreens). But now that you mention it, I have to agree. ;)
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#5 Post by yak » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:29 pm

Nice one. Enjoyed reading it too, exactly my thoughts.

One note about the speakers in T60. I don't think placing them above the keyboard would be feasible. On the right you have the USB ports followed immediately by the battery, on the left, you have the fan. Maybe it could be done with flat enough speakers but such speakers could sound worse then the ones we have now :)

What do you think about the design of port markings? The T60 has white icons placed directly next to the ports. As I see from the pictures, T61 has them embossed on the keyboard bezel and Z61 has something in between - white icons on the bezel. Which one do you like the best?

I see your Z61t does not have a fingerprint reader. Where there no Z61 with them?
ThinkPad™ X201 / AFFS-120
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Dell U2713HM (2560x1440, IPS), ExpressCard USB 3.0 (2 ports, flush), Nexus 7+10

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#6 Post by dr_st » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:24 am

yak wrote:One note about the speakers in T60. I don't think placing them above the keyboard would be feasible. On the right you have the USB ports followed immediately by the battery, on the left, you have the fan. Maybe it could be done with flat enough speakers but such speakers could sound worse then the ones we have now :)
Right you are. With the current design of the T60 this would indeed be impossible. I just remarked that I have seen laptops (and quite a few of them) with speakers placed above the keyboard. One such laptop is my old, old Compaq Evo N610c. That is possible, because the battery on that machine is located on the front, not the back. But I do think that things like battery and fan locations go into consideration before speaker placement, so one cannot claim that the machine should be designed differently to place the speakers in a particular spot. More like the speakers go into the place which is permitted by the layout of other components.

I hope I did not just write something cryptic and unintelligible. Cannot be sure. :?
yak wrote:What do you think about the design of port markings? The T60 has white icons placed directly next to the ports. As I see from the pictures, T61 has them embossed on the keyboard bezel and Z61 has something in between - white icons on the bezel. Which one do you like the best?
To tell you the truth, I never even noticed these things until you brought them up. Now that you did, I can tell you something interesting: my T60 actually has port marking embossed next to the ports, not painted with white paint. My colleague's older T60p does have white paint. I guess it means there were different frames/bezels for the T60.

Really, I don't have a preference, because I never look at the port markings. I know where the ports are, and what they do, so I don't need the markings to explain it to me, and I rarely find myself in need to reach blindly for a port.

However, from usability, markings on the bezel are probably preferred. The T60 has a very narrow keyboard bezel, so it's obvious they had to give up the idea of placing the markings there.

As far as white versus embossed: both have advantages. White paint is easier to see while it last, but it does have the potential of wearing out, leaving no marks at all. Something embossed stays there forever. :D
yak wrote:I see your Z61t does not have a fingerprint reader. Where there no Z61 with them?
Actually, there were quite a plenty of them. Just that mine isn't one of them. ;) I can add one, by changing the palmrest, but since I have never ever used a fingerprint reader to date, I see no reason (except if I at some point intend to sell it / pass it to a relative, which from some reason deems a fingerprint reader important). However, these palmrests with fingerprint are a tad pricy, so unless I can get one for free or cheap, I don't believe I will be heading down that route.
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#7 Post by Marin85 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:39 am

I like the port markings of the Z series. My Z61p has the same, which is very comfortable in the beginning until one learns what comes where... Actually, I still don´t pay much attention to where some ports are situated, except for the USB ones that I use everyday anyway. Also, I think the port markings on the Z series are useful for others if someone wants to use my laptop or to attach something while I´m not there, you don´t have to look on the sides or move the laptop, you just have to look from above and you see clearly where is what you are looking for :) Besides, I don´t have to look for the exact position of the hole because I know that the port is exactly under the marking. Not really big deal but it spares me some unnecessary movements :)
IBM Lenovo Z61p | 15.4'' WUXGA | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 2.16GHz | 4 GB Kingston HyperX | Hitachi 7K500 500 GB + WD 1TB (USB) | ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 | ThinkPad Atheros a/b/g | Analog Devices AD1981HD | Win 7 x86 + ArchLinux 2009.08 x64 (number crunching)

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#8 Post by Gustavo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:19 am

Very nice comparison thread. I liked it. Really like the curves of the Z61t she is sleak :)

I have an T60 now, just got it couple of days ago, it replaced my trusty T42(Which my wife has now).
I havent owned widescreen Thinkpads but i have seen and used a couple and there is something about them I just dont
like. Maybee I am just a sucker for 4:3 laptops.

I was looking at the new T400 series but it has had very bad reviews, mainly because of the bad keyboard and flex in the machine
a thing we are not used to in Thinkpads. So settled on the T60 which I got for an excellent price. Its an wonderful machine.
Still the keyboard on the T42 is better and the CPU on the T60 gets hotter than on the T42 which in turn makes the fan run louder. But what can you expect as many in this forum would argee that the T42 is in my opinion at least the best designed Thinkpad ever.
X60 |3GB Ram|T1300|7K320
Owned
X31 2673PXG
T43 2668-97U
T42 2378-FVU
T60 2007-4CG

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#9 Post by dorronto » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:44 pm

Excellent comparison. Having owned all 3 laptops, and still in possession of the T60 I like it a little better.

Thanks,
Ron
IBM Lenovo 100s 14" / T61 14.1sxga / X200 tablet / Microsoft Surface Pro 2 256GB / T61 wide and 15.4" and an iPad Air 2 and Ipad Mini 2....

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#10 Post by ssd_thinkpad » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:51 pm

dorronto wrote:Excellent comparison. Having owned all 3 laptops, and still in possession of the T60 I like it a little better.
You prefer your T4x?

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#11 Post by dorronto » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:27 pm

No, I like the T60. I prefer the form factor of the z61t, but 3 usb's on one side is a no no.

Ron
IBM Lenovo 100s 14" / T61 14.1sxga / X200 tablet / Microsoft Surface Pro 2 256GB / T61 wide and 15.4" and an iPad Air 2 and Ipad Mini 2....

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#12 Post by gunston » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:35 am

personally, not so fancy of the Wide-screen Thinkpad
1. T43 2668-B97 14" SXGA+ 1.5G RAM 9cells
2. X60s 1703-CA3 powerful

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#13 Post by Delmarco » Sun May 10, 2009 12:17 pm

dorronto wrote:No, I like the T60. I prefer the form factor of the z61t, but 3 usb's on one side is a no no.

Ron

Agreed. The T61 started the Leno-no design/quality decline. That said, the T400 is a complete design mess even by widescreens' commercially low standards
(a dozen usb ports clusters together on one side, uncentered screen, cheap plastics, small keyboard/big bezel, and the list goes on)

I just bought a new T60sxga after deciding between that, the T61sxga and the T400swga. In person the T400 was horrible and was quickly deleted from my shopping list. In the end for about $500 less than an identically spec T61, I got my T60 with everything I needed (the T61 I looked at only edge was having the Core2Duo at 2.2ghz over my T60 CoreDuo at 2.0ghz-something I will never miss-but I would've missed $500)

The only Lenovo Thinkpad that apeals to me is the X300/X301 series. The rest of the Lenova pads are just expensive grotesque bricks IMO.
Buried: T41 2379-DJU sxga 1.8Ghz 100GB
Cremated: T60 2008-VEP sxga 2.0Ghz 320GB
Travel: T61 8892-02U sxga 2.2Ghz 420GB
Home: W500 4062-4HU wuxga 2.8Ghz 320GB

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Re: 14" thin-n-light showcase: T60 vs Z61t vs T61 wide

#14 Post by paulvill76 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:43 pm

Hi Folks ! I´ve Just found the forum looking for PCMCIa for mi old T60 ! and have to register ! Thanks for the great comparison!

I work for IBM Argentina since 6 years ago , and I´ve change my laptop 2 times , first my old T60 core Solo , 60Gb , very small and worked out just fine ! And my new T400 :

Lenovo T400 6474ES3| 17 '' | Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8600 @ 2.40GHz, 2401 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)| 6 GB RAM | HD 160 GB| Win 7 Enterprise 64 Bits |

Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 6.00 GB

Image

I´ve replaced parts for my colleagues , for old IBM T40 and T43 ! the came the T60 it was a lightning compared to the old ones! (2005) then the T60 was replaced for the T61 in 2008 and in 2010 the first T400 replaced the T61 !

Now we´re usign the new T410 with Core i5 , HDMI , 500 GB HD and flies !

I enjoyed reading it! :Nice:

Also I Administer a Forum for my car , a Citroen C4 , and you have some nice plugins implemented! Will use some ideas ! Thanks to the Site Admin

_________________
Home : IBM Lenovo T60 | 15 '' | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 1.6GHz | 2 GB | HD 100 GB + WD 1.5TB (USB) | Win XP x86 + Magic Desktop ! |

Work : Lenovo T400 6474ES3| 17 '' | Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8600 @ 2.40GHz, 2401 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)| 6 GB RAM | HD 160 GB| Win 7 Enterprise 64 Bits |
Home : IBM Lenovo T60 | 15 '' | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 1.6GHz | 2 GB | HD 100 GB + WD 1.5TB (USB) | Win XP x86 + Magic Desktop ! |

Work : Lenovo T400 6474ES3| 17 '' | Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8600 @ 2.40GHz, 2401 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)| 6 GB RAM |160 GB| Win7

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