Wait for T42p getting cheaper, or wait for T43p ???

[Master One]

What a bad timing. I just was so into buying a T42p (UC2F4GE / 2373-F4G), but then I read all 16 pages of the "T43 Discussion" thread, and now I am totally uncertain again. These are my thoughts:

- Usually I am for the tactic, to buy a new item at the beginning of a product cycle, so that would speak rather for the T43p, than the T42p.

- There may be advantages on both items (T42p better power consumption, T43p better graphics card), and they tend to have an equal value, but the T43 is a complete new generation.

- If I buy the mentioned T42p model now, it costs me about 2.520,- EURO (excl. VAT), but I expect a drop in price soon due to the upcoming T43 series (that may be the reason, why our wholesaler didn't sell a single pcs. in 4 days now, they still have 83 units in stock). I read something about a refund from IBM, if the price drops within 30 days of purchase, but I don't think this is valid for Europe, and especially not, if it is not bought from the IBM website directly (so this would not help me at all, and therefore buying NOW would be just too risky).

- I've seen comments from people, who just purchased a T42(p), and they already regret that after reeding the T43 infos (and I don't want to end up like this).

- The T43p (an equal model like the T42p I mentioned above) most likely will not be available until April / May, so it's still a long time to wait.

I am really lost again now. Anyone here also waiting with me for the T43p to show up, or nevertheless is going to buy a T42p (right now, or waiting for a price drop)?

[BillMorrow]

i will get a T43p when they arrive and sell my T42p (Q1U)..

i will add the ibm wifi card since there is no (as yet) T43p with the FPR, multiburner and ibm wifi..

that said, i am running a special on the T42p at $2199 USD for the 2373GVU..

if you are impatient then the GVU is a good starting point..

otherwise, do like i will do and wait..

[RonS]

What is it, exactly, that you're waiting for?

The Sonoma gains almost no performance with the DDR2-533 memory and gets 20-30 minutes worse battery life. IBM isn't using either the SATA hard drive feature or Sonoma's high-performance audio, and the chassis is identical to the T42 (2 USB, no firewire).

The only real difference is the PCI-Express video in the T43p. But if you read the Sonoma review over at Toms Hardware, and look at the performance numbers of the FireGL V3200 vs the T2-128, there's only a small increase in performance. Definitely not worth the decrease in battery life, in my opinion.

I bought a T42P Q1U that is still within IBM's one-month return period. I waited anxiously for T43/p news thinking that I may trade up, since I'm in no hurry for a new computer. Now that I've seen the specs on the T43, I'm happily keeping my T42p.

Check out Tom's Hardware opinion.

Also note that IBM is releasing the T43's with a 1.86GHz Sonoma, vs the T42's with a 2.1GHz Dothan. I think it will be a while before the T43 will outperform the high-end T42p.

[Master One]

Hm, selling a T42p for a new T43p does not seem to be a major upgrade, and I definitely would not do that. If I should go for a T42p (very unlikely right at this moment), I would simply stick with it (notebook live-span for tax matters = 3 years here in Austria / Europe).

The only T42p model, that would be right for me, and which I can get from our usual wholesaler within 1 day is the mentioned UC2F4GE (2373-F4G) for about 2.520,- EURO (~ 1.940,- USD) excl. VAT.

I have no idea, when (and if) our wholesaler will make a price drop on this model, and they haven't listed any T43 models yet of course.

[Master One]

What is it, exactly, that you're waiting for?

Definitely, that something is happening! As already written, I am gonna buy at one of our wholesalers, and the price still did not drop for the desired T42p model. As I really do not assume, that IBMs 30-days-return-policy or refund in case of price drop applies, if not bought directly from the IBM webshop, I do not want to risk seeing the price drop right after I purchased the notebook.

Can anyone explain, how much and when the prices dropped in the past, when IBM announced a new model line?

The Sonoma gains almost no performance with the DDR2-533 memory and gets 20-30 minutes worse battery life. IBM isn't using either the SATA hard drive feature or Sonoma's high-performance audio, and the chassis is identical to the T42 (2 USB, no firewire).
The only real difference is the PCI-Express video in the T43p. But if you read the Sonoma review over at Toms Hardware, and look at the performance numbers of the FireGL V3200 vs the T2-128, there's only a small increase in performance. Definitely not worth the decrease in battery life, in my opinion.

Good points, that's why I am still not completely off the idea of purchasing the mentioned T42p, except the uncertainty about what will happen to the prices of the T42 line now in the near future.

I bought a T42P Q1U that is still within IBM's one-month return period.

So you bought directly from IBM? I don't understand those statements about the return-policy and the the money-refund on price-drop, because why should someone buy directly from IBM, since the prices are a lot more expensive there. If I wouldn't be able to buy from one of our wholesalers, I definitely would search for a dealer with the best price on ebay (I'm from Austria / Europe, and there is not much going on here locally in my town).

Also note that IBM is releasing the T43's with a 1.86GHz Sonoma, vs the T42's with a 2.1GHz Dothan. I think it will be a while before the T43 will outperform the high-end T42p.

I don't have much choice on the T42p model, the mentioned one is the only one that's in stock at our wholesaler for a reasonable price, and I don't want to fiddle arround with searching for another source (due to tax reasons, payment and delivery condition... I am buying this notebook for my company)

BTW It will be my first IBM ThinkPad, so I am not really already addicted, but since everybody has such a high opinion on IBM notebooks (I come to this forum after a suggestion in forums.gentoo.org), it already caught my interest that much, that I am reading and searching for more info for days now. It is quite interesting, and makes one believe, a ThinkPad is really something special.

[Grinch]

The only T42p model, that would be right for me, and which I can get from our usual wholesaler within 1 day is the mentioned UC2F4GE (2373-F4G) for about 2.520,- EURO (~ 1.940,- USD) excl. VAT.

2520€ are ~3290$

[Master One]

Oh yes, you are right of course, no idea how that calculation error could occure...

[lfeagan]

BTW It will be my first IBM ThinkPad, so I am not really already addicted, but since everybody has such a high opinion on IBM notebooks (I come to this forum after a suggestion in forums.gentoo.org), it already caught my interest that much, that I am reading and searching for more info for days now. It is quite interesting, and makes one believe, a ThinkPad is really something special.

Yes, Thinkpads really are something special. If you have the money to afford to comfortably buy one then they are great to have. As always, never buy more than you can afford reasonably or you will be owned by the product instead of you owning and enjoying the product.

[Champ]

guys don't forget the t43p doens't come out til much much later =) so no you can't trade it in

[lvlolvlo]

im wainting for the t43p

[Master One]

Another new factor may be the new Dell Inspiron 9300, which should come out earlier than the ThinkPad T43p. That one comes with a 17" wide-screen and a nVidia GeForce FX 6800 Go PCI-Express with 256 MB GDDR3. Also I know the quality is less superior than any ThinkPad, if they should get the problems with the WUXGA 1920x1600 screen fixed (that's the screen-size I always wanted), it again may be worth a consideration.

[censored], the more I read, the more difficult it gets...

[JohnDrake]

The specs on the T43p are out. Not sure if they are shipping just yet, but they are published...

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... tabook.pdf

Of course, the generation after the T43 is sweeter still....

[Champ]

9300 isn't the same series/format as the t42p or t43p not sure why you're even comparing. it weights probably almost twice as much, half hte battery life and likely uses p4ee or osmeting :s

[BillMorrow]

the T43p are not shipping yet..

i think the prices will be about $100 to $400 less than the Q1U depending upon which particular model..
with or without multiburner and so forth..

[Master One]

9300 isn't the same series/format as the t42p or t43p not sure why you're even comparing. it weights probably almost twice as much, half hte battery life and likely uses p4ee or osmeting :s

I wouldn't say that in this way. I already mentioned, that I believe both are not of the same build quality, that's pretty much for sure, but the rest can fit about equally:

- the i9300 is only about a half kilogram heavier (but therefore you get a 17" screen and a 9 cell battery)
- the price for a comparable configuration will be about equal (I expect the Dell to be slightly cheaper)
- the 9 cell battery in the i9300 should result in about the same runtime like the 6 cell battery in the T42p UC2F4GE / 2373-F4G (which is my prefered T42p model, but only comes with the 6 cell battery included)
- the i9300 is Sonoma plattform, so it only will come with the new Pentium Ms
- the i9300 definitely comes with the better graphics card
- the ThinkPads display is most likely of the superior quality (also I read now about the different panel types, that are used in the i9200, so if getting the right panel, the difference should not be that extraordinary)
- of course the Dell lacks the fingerprint reader and security chip (which is still of unclear useability under Linux, since I want to use the new notebook with Linux only)

I know, a ThinkPad lover stays a ThinkPad lover, but I am still open minded (not preoccupied by the ThinkPad fever), that's why I am also still looking for possible competitors to the T43p.

So at the moment, it's still a race between the T42p, T43p and the Dell Inspiron 9300 for me. As it was mentioned on notebookforums.com, it could be, that the i9300 already will be available beginning with 24th February, so there is quite a release difference between Dell and IBM.

As it looks like, it will be a very hard decision.

[fargusmax]

Well, if you're only going to use linux, then perhaps ANY laptop with an NVidia video solution is the way to go. Right now ATI lags WAAAY behind in driver development for linux. Although, I believe ATI just released drivers that FINALLY supposedly work with XOrg 6.8.x, I haven't tested them yet.

I went with a 2373-KTU T42p. I valued battery life more than the slight 5-10% performance gain that Sonoma seems to provide.

Also, it seems like Sonoma is just a stepping stone to Yonah and multi-core notebooks anyway, and I don't have much faith in Sonoma being able to support Yonah processors (The current Intel Desktop Chipsets (915/925) won't support the new dual core processors, while AMD's will.) And, if you want the ultimate in future-proof, you have to think 64-bit. From the looks of it, Intel doesn't plan on doing EM64T for its mobile platforms for the time being (I hope I'm wrong)

So, to me, a Sonoma laptop didn't seem like it would be THAT futureproof.

Check out this article outlining a bit about Intel's future plans:

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2329

The real question is: What do you plan to use it for NOW, and how long you expect to keep it? I fully expect my KTU to last me through B-School, even if I delay starting an extra year. Of course, the thing that will be obsolete the fastest is the video solution. However, I didn't make my purchase as a replacement to my desktop, but rather a mobile "addition" to my desktop. So, my desktop will handle my gaming needs (although I'm sure the MR9600 based FireGL T2 can handle a game of Warcraft 3 or Rise of Nations well enough for me). In fact, I'm replacing a Dell Latitude CS (PII 400mhz) - and truth to be told, I didn't NEED to upgrade. 6 years later, it still runs Linux with XFree 4.3 just fine (no KDE or Gnome though, FluxBox all the way...) It struggles with Win XP, so I keep Win 2000 on it, but Win 2000 is fine for the few things I have to have Windows for.

Now, if you are completely replacing your desktop, then you'll want to factor that into your decision. I'd go with the 9300 if I didn't need to take it anywhere and was truly replacing my desktop...

Rob

[Master One]

The new ATI binary drivers work now with xorg-x11 6.8.x, so that should not be the issue for the decision.

fargusmax, you are right, I can also see the Sonoma platform only to be a step in between, and for me it's not really about upgrade-ability.

To go for a Sonoma notebook may actually be the better solution, as long there is no major price drop for the T42p. It nevertheless is a gain in performance, also it's not a hugh step, but if the price should went down for my prefered T42p, I would be satisfied with that one as well of course (concerning Dell I would not buy the i9200 due to the mess with the display-panel-types and some other issues, like no 7200 RPM drive as a config-option).

As it will be my first a-little-more-expensive computer purchase for quite some time, I intend to use the new notebook at least 3 years without upgrading any component afterwards, which should be a reachable goal (but this is also the reason, why I will not take a lower end solution).

I am not really into gaming (also I may install the one or other FPS under Linux), but the graphics card should have something in reserve, also the more important part will be the display quality and resolution. My new notebook is mainly for work, so writing and reading emails and other documents the whole day, doing webstuff, bookkeeping and so on.

I also tend to the idea, that the i9300 may be the better desktop replacement, simply because the 17" 16:10 panel would be a real upgrade to my 17" 1280x1024 desktop LCD screen (an older Samtron 70S). On the other hand I assume the ThinkPad should have a far better keyboard then the Dell, so it may get again even between the two (it's really that bad, that there is no place, where I can see such a ThinkPad and such a Dell side by side to do a live comparison on the display and keyboard between the two -> I have to admit, that I never have seen or used a ThinkPad or a Dell personally).

To morrow, or anyone else who is into this:

Is there a price drop on the T42(p) models to be expected at all now in the race for the release of the T43 series?

And if yes, is there an estimate in % (maybe a comparison, what happened to the T41 prices, when the T42 series was announced)?

I still can not imagine, if it's worth to wait now a little longer, if I should nevertheless decide to go for the mentioned T42p.

[Master One]

It's the following IBM ThinkPad T42P (UC2F4GE / 2373-F4G):

- 15" UXGA 1600x1200 TFT panel
- ATI Mobility FireGL T2 128 MB 4xAGP
- Intel Pentium M 745 1.80 GHz FSB 400
- Intel 855PM chipset
- 1 GB PC 2700 / 333 DDR
- 60 GB ATA-100 EIDE (hopefully this is really the 7200 RPM?)
- DVD Recordable 2x EIDE (no idea, if this is the multi / dual-layer burner?)
- 56k V.92 faxmodem
- IR / Intel 802.11bg / Bluetooth / Intel PRO/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
- IBM ThinkPad UltraNav / Full size keyboard with keyboard light
- 6 cell lithium-ion battery
- IBM Security features with fingerprint reader

I can get that unit here for about 2.520,- EURO (excl. VAT)

[censored], this is really driving me nuts! I just checked the price for that piece again, and it already dropped down to 2.425,- EURO (excl. VAT).

If I only knew, what to do.... The closer the release of the T43p series comes (with April still far away), the cheaper it probably will get... But how much can that unit still drop???

[slasko]

Hello

Im going to buy my first thinkpad in march month, the T43 is shpping out the 25 february (if i understand correctly) and then the T42P that I will buy hopefully had slight a pricedrop Also I dont have the nesercery funds until march.

[Master One]

I finally decided to order the mentioned IBM ThinkPad T42P (UC2F4GE / 2373-F4G) tomorrow. After the last price drop it really shows the best value to me.

I came to the conclusion, that it's not worth waiting for an equal T43p, as the price will be a lot higher for only a little more performance (both, the new 2.1 GHz CPU, as well as the DDR533 SO DIMMs are way too expensive).

The only T43p, which is already listed at our wholesaler, is the UC3H2GE / 2668H2G, but that will have an initial price of (hold your breath!) 3.700,57 EURO (excl. VAT) .... ARGE!!! This is completely out of question for me.

BTW I'll also order two pcs. of PortReplicator II, one power supply and two 7port USB2.0 hubs. I found a great offer on ebay for the PortReplicator II and the power supply, and the mentioned equipment is so much cheaper than going for two MiniDock dockingstations, it was the ultimate bargain and offers a much better solution (due to the 7 USB-ports compared to only 4 in the MiniDock).

[Master One]

Ok, I finally got my new IBM ThinkPad T42p (UC2F4GE / 2373-F4G) on last friday. This machine is absolutly awsome, I could not imagine of how impressed I will be when I finally have it in my hands. When I switched it on the first time, I had to recheck if it really was running, since you can not hear anything at all (speaking as a former user of an old Gericom P4 notebook, which make a hell of a noise)

I spent this weekend checking all aspects of the unit for beeing fully functional, that it got the right parts built in (Thai keyboard, Sony battery, 7200 RPM harddrive, PC2700 memory, no dead or stuck pixels on the UXGA FlexView screen, and so on...), and performing all tests with the included PC-Doctor.

I already set up the fingerprint reader usage for power-on / hdd-access / bios-access (works OS independent, but has to be set up using the installed WinXP software), made two sets of Rescue & Recovery CDs (first one on 7 CD-Rs, second one after the update of the IBM Rescue & Recovery software on 1 CD-R & 1 DVD-R), and now I am ready to wipe the WinXP & hidden partition, to install Gentoo Linux as my only OS.

I am so happy with this piece of hardware, I don't remember ever getting that excited about a new "toy".

I already bought two new IBM Port Replicator II on ebay (each for only 110,82 EURO incl. P&P with full IBM warranty), and on last Sunday I managed to catch a Kingston Value RAM 1 GB SO-DIMM PC2700 for only 154,83 EURO incl. P&P (it's a used one, but Kingston has lifetime-warranty on all memory sticks, so it should not matter). In addition to those items, I also ordered two 7-port USB2.0 hubs and a Dicota notebook-bag, so I am really fully equipped now.

I'll perform a "Stage 1 on a Stage 3 tarball" installation, to benefit from the -march=pention-m flag of gcc 3.4, and I just decided to use reiser4 as filesystem, which will blow socks on the embedded 7200 RPM harddrive. I hope, that I can set everything up fine, since I want to get swsusp2 fully functional with the latest ATI binary drivers (have read about some problems on that issue).

What else can I say, I am just so excited about all that stuff, which makes it hard to concentrate now on my daily work...

BTW I really don't regret buying this T42p just before the T43p hits the market, and I even think about purchasing a second one of exactly the same type for my wife (if I can manage to sell our Gericom Masterpiece P4 laptop).

[slasko]

Congratulations I cant wait myself til I get my hands on the T42P

[anonymouse]

I ordered my T43 today. I saw 2 models on the IBM site but the highest res shown was 1024 x 768. I decided to call telephone sales and ordered the following unit:

Intel Pentium M 2.0 GHz
512MB PC2-4200
15" 1400 x 1050 display
64MB x300 Graphics card
DVD-CDRW
Wireless a/b/g/bluetooth
1G E Network /Modem
Fingerprint reader (not really needed!)
6-cell (wish they had 9-cell w/such an expensive model)
XP-Pro
60GB 7200 RPM
3-year warranty
Model 266894U

I was given an ETA sometime in March. If I dont hear more details, I'll basically cancel the order for a T42p. I would assume that the T42p would drop further down in pricing. I am not sure if there would be any major performance gain like some have posted here, but with a faster CPU and 533FSB you cant go wrong. I am concerned about heat issues at 2.0 GHz, and being a 1.0 Release consumer, hopefully IBM warranty is there to take care of me!

[dfumento]

I strongly recommend you stay with the T42 models.

Read this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20050119/index.html

You are also paying an enormous price premium for a faster CPU that might give you 15% increase in overall preformance over a 1.7 MHz processor.
I don't know what kind of discount pricing you have available, but you might consider getting the 2379FVU and upgrade to 3 year warranty and 60GB 7200 RPM drive and add a 512MB RAM stick.

The only advantage I see to T43s is that you get a more recent wireless mini-pci (either 2915 Intel or Atheros 5004X).

I followed my own advice and I have just recieved a 23739XU which I got a good deal on because of educational discount.


Please check this out:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=7436

I don't mean to dampen your enthusaism and excitement but I would like to save you a lot of money. Also 2373FVU models are usually in stock so you'll get it right away!

[Leon]

I agree..... plus, if the price of your machine goes down before you get it (and probably for 30 days After), IBM will refund the fiff.......

[anonymouse]

I think my biggest consideration is time. If the T43 is not available within the next 4 weeks or less, I shall opt for a T42p, any suggestions on which model to choose ? I need a 15", 60GB 7200 with a decent/fast CPU. Is there a significant difference between a 1.7 and 1.8 ? The 1.8 models appear to be bundled with a 9-cell battery. The web site says 2 weeks on a lot of these units, how quickly are the units assembled and shipped ?

[Leon]

no sig. diff between 1.7/1.8
any/all are usually shipped faster than they say...

p.s. welcome to our forum!

[dfumento]

The 2379DXU has the features you want for $1800 and the web site says there are 19 in stock (but check by phone to be certain). The wireless mini-pci card has b/g. If you want 'a' as well, you can get the P/N 73P4301, FRU 93P4262 Wireless min-pci II for about $65.

I don't know what kind of discount schedule you qualify for, but if you are in school or an Alumnus of a school this one works.

http://www-1.ibm.com/shop/pc/personalpa ... ookie=true

[anonymouse]

I probably qualify for any of their discount categories. I would presume that the employee discount is the best.

What are the differences between a 9-cell and 6-cell (I got 6-cell), how much more power does a 9-cell retain. Is it worth getting a 9-cell ?

Regarding the wireless mini-pci card, I am assuming that the a/b/g will come preinstalled in the unit if I choose to upgrade.

I will also be getting a mini-dock, hopefully its power adapter is interchangeable with that of the laptop's.

Are there any advantages to buying anything beyond the 3-year warranty ?

Are there any benchmarks as to what an M-1.7 would equate to in the desktop pentium world ?

Thanks for being patient - very nice forum. I have not had very good luck with laptops. I hope a thinkpad will deliver for a long time!

[plucky duck]

T42p offers a lot of value for the money at the moment, compared to the T43p. The price of the T42p has dropped off about 40% since 6-9 mnths ago, when I bought mine anyways.

The gain in performance does not warrant the significant price premium, imo. Unless money is not necessarily a top priority with you.

Good choice going with the T42p