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T43 or T43p?

T40/T41/T42/T43 series specific matters only
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ohthinker
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T43 or T43p?

#1 Post by ohthinker » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:59 pm

Hi, I'm considering an upgrade from my T22. I've gotten the impression from a cursory reading here that the T43p doesn't suffer from the same frequency of graphics chip failure as the T43. Is that a correct impression?

Next question -- used T43s go for around $250-350 depending on condition, speed, disk size, and so on. Used T43ps run easily double that! Is the difference really worth it? I mean in terms of reliability, anticipated lifetime, usability, speed, and so on.

I've kind of given up on the idea that Thinkpads will ever again be as bulletproof as my 760EL is, but it would be nice to have something I didn't have to worry too much about.

Any and all comments appreciated.
Ohio Thinker - 760EL, 600E, T22 * 2, T43

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#2 Post by sktn77a » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:21 pm

If the GPU problem with the T43 is as bad as the T41/T42, then I would get an integrated graphics T43. The T43p has a discrete graphics chip (which has been the source of the T41/T42 problems). If course, if you need the graphic horsepower of the T43p then you don't really have a choice................
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#3 Post by killer » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:33 pm

AFAIK, neither the T43 nor the T43p suffers from GPU problems. They both have Intel chips.
The T43 15" is a cool running machine. The T43p with 14" screen runs much hotter.

It's your choice, but I hope this helps.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#4 Post by underclocker » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:06 pm

Without a doubt, some T43's and all T43p's had ATI GPU's. Without a doubt, all ATI GPU based T43's, including T43p's, are subject to the loose GPU problem.

You can 1) buy a working ATI GPU T43 or T43p and treat it with care, 2) buy an Intel GPU T43, or 3) buy a T60 or T60p. You should probably treat them all with care.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#5 Post by richk » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:30 pm

ALLT43p machines have ATi graphics and can suffer the same fate as T40/41/42. Some T43 machines have Intel graphics and do not suffer that problem, but they will not support 14" SXGA or 15" UXGA screens.

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#6 Post by ohthinker » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:36 pm

Yikes, I had it backward and sideways both at the same time! Under, thanks for setting me straight on this one.

I don't treat my hardware roughly, but when one buys used it's hard to tell what kind of treatment the machine has had previously. Besides, I'm no gamer; no way do I need the oomph of a fancy graphics system. It sounds like I'd be better served to find a machine with an integrated Intel graphics system. (I assume that means the graphics subsystem is part of the main chipset.)

The next question is, how can I tell whether a machine offered for sale on the web (or Ebay, ack) has an ATI or Intel graphics system?

Killer, thanks for the thoughts. I'd definitely prefer a cooler-running box, but I don't really want a 15" LCD. Unless I'm mistaken (hmm, as I was on the graphics chip use in T43 vs T43p ;-), all the 15" LCDs on T43 machines are 1400 x 1050 and 1600 x 1200 pixels. I have a 1400 x 1050 14" on my T22 and I dislike it pretty strongly. With that resolution my cruddy eyes really need at least a 17" screen, and a 19+" screen is better.

Thanks for the responses. I'll leave the T43ps for the guys with SMT experience.

Speaking of such matters, I have to wonder why any computer manufacturer would use SMT in a machine that's apt to be knocked about. Solder is mechanically weak. I was always taught that solder's purpose was to reinforce and seal a connection that was already mechanically strong, not to "glue" things together. Ah well, so it goes.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:49 pm

If you a 14.1" T43 with integrated Intel graphics chip, they are all XGA (1024x768).
Only thing to watch on a T43 is, that they need to run approved hard disks, otherwise you get the 2010 error.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#8 Post by archer6 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:05 pm

ohthinker wrote:<snip>I don't treat my hardware roughly
That's really the key. I have well padded high quality cases for my expensive ThinkPads. I handle them with care. My work ThinkPad goes everywhere with me Monday through Friday and has always been a workstation class machine, as it's what I do. When the T42p first came out, I bought one new and carried it between home, the office, clients etc every business day until the T43p was released when I bought one of those new. Both of these served me extremely well and are still functioning perfectly even though they've been replace by a T60p and now W500. So, my only point is not _all_ machines have the GPU problem. We see a lot of it here, but the good ones are out there still doing just fine. I would not avoid either. That said, if you do _not_ need the graphics capabilities and the resources of a workstation class machine I would go with a regular T42 or T43, I have one of each of those as well, and they also remain viable machines. They run cool, quiet, and very stable.

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Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#9 Post by underclocker » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:47 pm

From this thread, which you might find interesting --> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65505
underclocker wrote:YES, R51's came with either ATI or Intel video (that was sort of the beauty of this solution - you could just swap boards).

See info below to quicly identify the GPU in any machine;

All R50's had ATI GPU's.

All T40/T41/T42's had ATI GPU's.

R51 ATI GPU --> Machine types 1829, 1830, 1831, 1836
R51 Intel GPU --> Machine types 2883, 2887, 2888, 2889, 2894, 2495

T43 ATI GPU --> Machine types 2668, 2669, 2678, 2679, 2686, 2687
T43 Intel GPU --> Machine types 1871, 1872, 1873, 1874,1875, 1876

R52 ATI GPU --> Machine types 1846, 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, 1870
R52 Intel GPU --> Machine types 1858, 1859, 1860, 1861, 1862, 1863, 1958

R50e & R51e's are different than all the others (but should fit), consult a hardware maintennace manual for details.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#10 Post by SaberX » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:55 am

I'm useing a T43 now with the intel video.
The T43 i have has the 2.0ghz cpu and 2 gigs ram.I must say it run's realy nice and fast.the intel 900 video run's alot better then i thought it would.It uses upto 128 megs for video when needed.
The only thing i would realy like is the SXGA+ screen.So i guess the next system for me is a T60.

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#11 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:53 am

Or get a 15" T43 or T43p with Intel AND an SXGA+ screen. (Rare birds, but they exist!).
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#12 Post by ohthinker » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:47 pm

Folks, I can't thank you enough for all this solid info. With these tips in mind, I'm currently considering a type 1872 in fairly clean condition.

Based on the drives thread (I read all 18 pages, whew) I guess if I transplant my Samsung MP0402H drive into the T43 I can expect to deal with noise and delays on every boot forever, or at least as long as drive and machine survive. I'd call that annoying, but at least it doesn't disable the machine.

And there's no such thing as the perfect system. Never has been.

I realize that this forum isn't a valid cross-section of users -- most people are too busy using their machines to write in and say "I have no problems at all with my T-whatever" -- but with all the loose video chips, disconnected memory slots, detached chokes, and so on, I decided to look into a couple of other brands that used to have solid reputations.

Well, heck. NONE of them seems to be immune. EVERY brand has at least some folks griping that it's not what it used to be, now that it's assembled with low-bid components by teenage girls who didn't finish high school, in shadowy Ghangzou subcontractor sweatshops. FWIW, I don't have numbers, but it appears that Thinkpads haven't fallen any further from their pedestal than, say, Toshibas.

So: Onward! Into the fog!

Thanks again.
Ohio Thinker - 760EL, 600E, T22 * 2, T43

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#13 Post by ZaZ » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:16 pm

Have you thought about the R series, the R60 in particular? It's a bit heavier and thicker than the T, but it's still very portable in my opinion. You can get it configured exactly the same as the T and it'll probably cost less than a T60 if you can find one to your liking. You can get SXGA+ if you like on the Intel card like the T60. It'll offer you better performance and you might even be able to find one with some warranty meaning you could extend it. My own 14" R60 has been the most trouble free notebook I've owned. It's in better shape than my T41 or T42 at the same point in it's life.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#14 Post by richk » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:46 pm

I agree the R60 offers good value. The ones with the Intel video are simple, cool and trouble-free. They use SATA drives, which are larger and cheaper. I have a realy clean one I am going to sell with SXGA screen and remaining warranty and it will sell under $400 - not much more than a T43, but with no 2010 or GPU problems.

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#15 Post by archer6 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:27 pm

I could not agree more.

The R60 is a fantastic ThinkPad with nothing put advantages and no disadvantages in my opinion. In some ways I like it better than my T60 as the top surface of the display (when closed) is easier to keep clean, the plastic finish has a very nice texture and overall it's an unbeatable machine. The difference in size and weight is so small it's not worth focusing on. One cannot go wrong with an R60, it's one of the best.... but that's simply my opinion.

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Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#16 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:49 pm

@archer6:
And for what reason is it missing in your (very impressive) collection?
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#17 Post by archer6 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:52 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:@archer6:
And for what reason is it missing in your (very impressive) collection?
Ha...ha...ha.....Great Question!

I'm laughing at myself because I kept looking at them when they were available new, but never bought one for reasons I cannot remember. It's the one I "missed" and so it goes.

The purpose of listing some of my favorites below (that's not my entire collection) is to encourage new users or others to ask questions. My goal is to help others that may not have the benefit of seeing a particular model before purchasing one. If I can share my experience with the models I've had, in an effort to save others time and money, then everyone wins.

Cheers...
Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
Netbooks... S-10 ~ S-12

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#18 Post by davidspalding » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:23 am

I've had a T43 since 11/2005, treated it pretty well, and have had no (ATI) graphics issues. (knock wood) I'm happy with it, but the limitation on hard drives is a bit of hassle. The lastest BIOS update will let it boot anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that.

I bought a model with Bluetooth as I really appreciate the connectivity with my phone and other input devices (mouse, Wacom tablet). Using the older TABOOK PDFs you should be able to determine if a model that you're bidding upon. The Fingerprint Reader that came on it at first seemed a gimmick, but I used it for power-on password use and Windows logon. Registering my gf so she could boot it up, too, was easy. I've found I now MISS the FPR on an X32 that I'm using as my "daily driver." Funny how little things become essential.

I played with T43ps in the IBM lab I worked in, the screen was nice and large, but at that 1600x1200 resolution, hard to read things (!!) unless you used the Advanced Display Properties to scale up 125% or so (which I did on my T43 for a while, anyway, to ensure onscreen measurements were "real world"). I would consider a fully-loaded T43 comparable, so a premium price for a T43p ... I wouldn't.

Just my $0.02.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#19 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:37 am

On 14 inch models, being limited to SXGA+ LCDs, there are not much difference between T43 and T43p. On 15 inch machines, the availability of UXGA on T43p make more of a different IMHO.
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#20 Post by archer6 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:08 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:On 14 inch models, being limited to SXGA+ LCDs, there are not much difference between T43 and T43p. On 15 inch machines, the availability of UXGA on T43p make more of a different IMHO.
Yes, precisely! A point I failed to mention in my earlier post. Being one that always chooses a 15" / 15.4" over a 14" I've enjoyed the UXGA / WUXGA resolution and the extra screen real estate immensely. Workspace for me is everything. Especially since I'm far too lazy to scroll.... :D

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Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
Netbooks... S-10 ~ S-12

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#21 Post by MagicBoy » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:36 pm

In my experience the ATI problem is overstated. The company I work for have 500+ T41-T43 laptops all with ATI graphics. We've had less than five with this problem - so a failure rate of around 1% after 3+ years of usage. The T4x is a paragon of reliability compared to the X31 of the same vintage.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#22 Post by archer6 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:14 pm

MagicBoy wrote:In my experience the ATI problem is overstated. The company I work for have 500+ T41-T43 laptops all with ATI graphics. We've had less than five with this problem - so a failure rate of around 1% after 3+ years of usage. The T4x is a paragon of reliability compared to the X31 of the same vintage.
You have a very good point.

I might use the analogy of ones local Mercedes Benz Dealership, where the only cars in for repairs are the ones that require them. All the rest are out their happily motoring along. While a very simple and somewhat obvious comparison, it is nonetheless, quite accurate. At least from this writers perspective, as I view the ThinkPad as the MBZ of laptops..... :)

Cheers...
Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
Netbooks... S-10 ~ S-12

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#23 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:22 pm

archer6 wrote:
as I view the ThinkPad as the MBZ of laptops...
An excellent comparison...neither is what is used to be...

As for T43 vs. T43p, I'll agree that on a 14" unit there's little to no reason to go with the "p". I currently own a top-configuration 14" "p" available, and as sweet as it is, in today's day and age it doesn't really offer much more than a comparable non-p unit. Having said that, finding a non-p with a PM780, BT/FP/ABG would probably cost as much as buying a "p" nowadays...

Now 15"...that's a whole another ballgame. Yum, yum, yummy UXGA FlexView...not that there's anything wrong with SXGA+ FlexViews on standard T43s, but I simply love the extra screen real estate...

Overall, the most important thing about any machine (and I don't mean just a laptop) is how it's being treated and maintained, assuming it was properly designed...personally, I'd trust a T43/p a lot more than the rest of T4x generation just because of my own personal experience with them, which has been nothing but stellar...on a hundred or so that I've owned there were two motherboard failures, none of them GPU-related, and no USB failures-a lot better compared to my experiences with the rest of T4x units.
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#24 Post by kam1 » Mon May 04, 2009 10:08 pm

I have had a T43 for four years now - bought from new - in that time I have had 3 hd failures - all replaced under ibms three year warranty. I also own a t23 for over 6 years and I have had one problem with the machine over the years - It seems that the newer thinkpad models have a higher rate of failure than their earlier ibm cousins -

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#25 Post by sjthinkpader » Mon May 04, 2009 11:45 pm

Which brand HDD were they?
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
T43p 2668-H8U/UXGA IPS/ATI V3200
R50p 1832-NU1/UXGA IPS/ATI FireGL T2
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#26 Post by kam1 » Mon May 04, 2009 11:56 pm

hitachi 40gb

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#27 Post by sjthinkpader » Tue May 05, 2009 12:20 am

40gb HDDs are not recent. :?: I had a 40GB in my T41 circa 2003, after the Toshiba drive failure. The Fujitsu 40GB was my favorite. Never had a failure.
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
T43p 2668-H8U/UXGA IPS/ATI V3200
R50p 1832-NU1/UXGA IPS/ATI FireGL T2
X61t 7762-B6U dual touch IPS/64GB SSD
X32 2673-BU6/32GB SSD
755CDV 9545-GBK Transmissive Projection LCD

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#28 Post by FrankL » Sat May 09, 2009 11:04 am

the T43p has a few advantages not yet mentioned here:
- 128MB video ram vs 64MB for the ATI X300 in (at least some of) the t43 models. Which *might* help out for H264 playback of HD resolutions. My T43 2GHz with ATI X300 can play back most content just about, while some higher bitrate stuff definitely is out of reach for this config.
- dual-link DVI output. Allows you to hook up displays with resolution higher than WUXGA or WUXGA without reduced blanking (if the screen does not support that mode)

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Re: T43 or T43p?

#29 Post by dr_st » Sat May 09, 2009 5:05 pm

FrankL wrote:- dual-link DVI output. Allows you to hook up displays with resolution higher than WUXGA or WUXGA without reduced blanking (if the screen does not support that mode)
Interesting. So the X300 does not have dual-link DVI, but the V3200 does? Can you quote a source for this information?
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Re: T43 or T43p?

#30 Post by FrankL » Sun May 10, 2009 2:35 am

dr_st wrote: Interesting. So the X300 does not have dual-link DVI, but the V3200 does? Can you quote a source for this information?
now that I'm looking at where I got the info from.. it seems that it's not mentioned anywhere in IBM documentation, nor are the specific models mentioned on sites like thinkwiki.org

I must have read it from posts on this very forum by members! A search might find them. Or maybe a test by users that own a p-series model could verify DL-DVI capability.

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